Help me understand if you will

[Gophesjo]

Say I buy a one or two million point Wyndham Points contract re-sale (so I am not VIP) with the intention of either gifting reservations to other folks, or reserving for renters who will pay me for those reservations, will I need to pay a guest certificate fee of either $99 or $139 (depending on if I make the reservation on the phone or online) in conjunction with each of those reservations? If so, does the same guest certificate fee apply in the Extended Reservation window as well for last minute reservations made on behalf of others? Do the mega points owners who are in the rental business get around this some way with Wyndham, or do they factor this cost into their business model/operations? Thanks for helping me understand!

Joe

 

[antjmar]

you will get only 1 free guest reservation per year regardless of how many points you own if you buy resale, When you book does not matter its still only 1 free per year then $99 or $139 like you said.
I assume most mega renters are VIP.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Say I buy a one or two million point Wyndham Points contract re-sale (so I am not VIP) with the intention of either gifting reservations to other folks, or reserving for renters who will pay me for those reservations, will I need to pay a guest certificate fee of either $99 or $139 (depending on if I make the reservation on the phone or online) in conjunction with each of those reservations? If so, does the same guest certificate fee apply in the Extended Reservation window as well for last minute reservations made on behalf of others? Do the mega points owners who are in the rental business get around this some way with Wyndham, or do they factor this cost into their business model/operations? Thanks for helping me understand!

Joe

It's a sure bet that mega renters do not get around Wyndham any more than you or I do. Have you seen this site? http://www.wyndsham.com/ They are not happy at all with the change that took away their VIP unlimited guest certificates. There be lawsuits over it, but so far no reports on results.

You have to provide a guest certificate any time it's not you personally or any co-owners on the deed staying in the unit. Those certificates jumped from $25 to $129 ($99 online) practically overnight too.

 

[am1]

Have to pay for the guest certificates. If that was not the case I could have retired by now.

 

[Gophesjo]

Thanks all

There was a 2 mil contract sale that ended on Ebay today with what appeared to be fairly reasonable MF's. Made me want to get a better handle on how Wyndham works, but every reservation having that high base fee surely must make it much harder than it was to make a Wyndham rental business work.

 

[Cheryl20772]

There was a 2 mil contract sale that ended on Ebay today with what appeared to be fairly reasonable MF's. Made me want to get a better handle on how Wyndham works, but every reservation having that high base fee surely must make it much harder than it was to make a Wyndham rental business work.

corporate Wyndham apparently hates owners who rent and changed the guest confirmation rules just to discourage that. In effect they put some of them out of business. This may be one of those that you observed being dumped on eBay. If you take it, you are possibly speculating on a failed business. It's not quite the same as picking up someone's luxury vacation week that they can't afford anymore.

At the same time we have the Wyndham sales people trying to sell extra points to owners telling them that they can use the points to gain the rental income and defray MFs. It's just wrong.

You need to really know what you are doing if you want to work that rental business ... particularly if you are not going to buy retail and have the VIP discount advantage. The guest certificate is not your disadvantage (VIP's have to provide it too and only get 15 per million eligible points), the Platinum VIP 50% point discount is. Then you have to compete with Extra Holidays which scoops their inventory from ours and they don't have to buy guest certificates; nor are they liable for damages. They get to advertise on Xpedia and the other biggies too.

 

[ronparise]

the maintenance fees on that 2million point contract that sold today on ebay were not reasonable about $6.30/1000. Actually I think it was a mistake..Club access fees are usually advertised at closer to $5.40/1000

Regarding renting and Wyndham's guest fee...I pay it... The only way I can make Wyndham work for rentals is to reserve certain high demand partial weeks

Right now Im waiting for ESPN to announce the teams that will be playing in the College Football National Championship Game in New Orleans Jan 9...I have several Alabama fans that will rent the studios I have reserved at Avenue plaza, if their team is playing...Im getting $250 a night for 3 nights..its costing me 39000 points (about $200) and $100 for the guest cert and 30 for the transaction fee or about $350 total.

So Im happy, 10 weeks like these (about 400000 points) will pay all the maintenance fees on the 700000 points I own leaving 300000 points for me for free. But rentals like these are few and far between....(and no Im not telling you about my other "special weeks" )

I dont think you can make a business renting Wyndham reservations unless you are Gold or Platinum and own your points at Daytona or New Orleans for the ARP (Bike Week, and Mardi Gras)

 

[am1]

Right now Im waiting for ESPN to announce the teams that will be playing in the College Football National Championship Game in New Orleans Jan 9...I have several Alabama fans that will rent the studios I have reserved at Avenue plaza, if their team is playing...Im getting $250 a night for 3 nights..its costing me 39000 points (about $200) and $100 for the guest cert and 30 for the transaction fee or about $350 total.

I said at the start of the season it would be bama and LSU playing for the national championship.

Good luck with the rentals.

 

[ronparise]

I said at the start of the season it would be bama and LSU playing for the national championship.

Good luck with the rentals.

The folks Im talking to weren't as sure as you were. They wouldnt book until they were sure.

Ive rented one already tonight...well see what the morning brings.

 

[chapjim]

I said at the start of the season it would be bama and LSU playing for the national championship.

Good luck with the rentals.

I only had five rentals at La Belle Maison for the BCS game and sold out about three weeks ago -- all to LSU fans. I try not to get too greedy on these things which is probably why I sold out early.

I had several inquiries from Alabama fans but they didn't want to pull the trigger on a rental until after the LSU game. I haven't heard a word from any of them since, but I expect to if/when the announcement is made that LSU and Alabama will play for the national championship.

I have ten reservations (La Belle Maison and Avenue Plaza) for the NCAA Final Four. Marketing them will be a little different than the BCS reservations since noone knows until the week before who will go to New Orleans. Maybe UK or UNC fans??

 

[ronparise]

I only had five rentals at La Belle Maison for the BCS game and sold out about three weeks ago -- all to LSU fans. I try not to get too greedy on these things which is probably why I sold out early.

I had several inquiries from Alabama fans but they didn't want to pull the trigger on a rental until after the LSU game. I haven't heard a word from any of them since, but I expect to if/when the announcement is made that LSU and Alabama will play for the national championship.

I have ten reservations (La Belle Maison and Avenue Plaza) for the NCAA Final Four. Marketing them will be a little different than the BCS reservations since noone knows until the week before who will go to New Orleans. Maybe UK or UNC fans??

My inquiries were Alabama fans....the announcement was last night...and Ive rented 3 since then

I learned a long time ago not to be too greedy; that you can make a lot of money a little bit at a time. At age 17 (nearly 50 years ago) I was a car hop at one of Marriott's HotShoppes restaurant. I was making more money than most grown men in my neighborhood, one twent-five cent tip at a time

 

[Gophesjo]

Congrats Ron!

Figured out what you are going to do with your other 300000 points yet?

 

[Gophesjo]

Just kidding of course!

Figured out what you are going to do with your other 300000 points yet?

 

[chapjim]

I learned a long time ago not to be too greedy; that you can make a lot of money a little bit at a time. At age 17 (nearly 50 years ago) I was a car hop at one of Marriott's HotShoppes restaurant. I was making more money than most grown men in my neighborhood, one twent-five cent tip at a time

It's called "Get Rich Slowly."

BD=October 2, 1945. We must have gone to different schools together!

 

[chapjim]

corporate Wyndham apparently hates owners who rent and changed the guest confirmation rules just to discourage that. In effect they put some of them out of business. This may be one of those that you observed being dumped on eBay. If you take it, you are possibly speculating on a failed business. It's not quite the same as picking up someone's luxury vacation week that they can't afford anymore.

At the same time we have the Wyndham sales people trying to sell extra points to owners telling them that they can use the points to gain the rental income and defray MFs. It's just wrong.

You need to really know what you are doing if you want to work that rental business ... particularly if you are not going to buy retail and have the VIP discount advantage. The guest certificate is not your disadvantage (VIP's have to provide it too and only get 15 per million eligible points), the Platinum VIP 50% point discount is. Then you have to compete with Extra Holidays which scoops their inventory from ours and they don't have to buy guest certificates; nor are they liable for damages. They get to advertise on Xpedia and the other biggies too.

Only 15 guest confirmations per million? That works out to an average of 67K points per reservation. I don't do a lot of 67K reservations, even with the 50% discount although this year I will do more because of the BCS game and Final Four in New Orleans. I made a lot of four-day reservations (Friday-Tuesday) that will come out to about 45K/reservation with the discount. But, I also have a bunch of 2 and 3BR Presidential units next summer (mostly Bonnet Creek) that are up to 385K before the discount.

I heartily concur with your main point -- if you don't get a 50% discount, it is almost impossible to make money.

 

[ronparise]

It's called "Get Rich Slowly."

BD=October 2, 1945. We must have gone to different schools together!

Youve got me by a little more than a year..10/4/46
Gonzaga class of '64

 

[Cheryl20772]

Only 15 guest confirmations per million? That works out to an average of 67K points per reservation. I don't do a lot of 67K reservations, even with the 50% discount although this year I will do more because of the BCS game and Final Four in New Orleans. I made a lot of four-day reservations (Friday-Tuesday) that will come out to about 45K/reservation with the discount. But, I also have a bunch of 2 and 3BR Presidential units next summer (mostly Bonnet Creek) that are up to 385K before the discount.

I heartily concur with your main point -- if you don't get a 50% discount, it is almost impossible to make money.

Yes, they got cut from unlimited guest confirmations to just 15 with no notice and boy were some of them upset. The bigger your point discount, the farther your points go, but the more guest certificates may be needed.

Around the same time Wyndham also deleted the feature that let us rent or sell points to other owners. The points could be transferred from account to account. Wyndham said it's what the owners wanted. That feature let you take that measly 4K you might have left over and at least get a few dollars from someone who could use them to vacation. Wyndham wanted to make us rent the extra points from them rather than from each other. Some people bought their points contract because they could work it like that with family members or friends. That wasn't in writing though; so tough cheese.

 

[chapjim]

Yes, they got cut from unlimited guest confirmations to just 15 with no notice and boy were some of them upset. The bigger your point discount, the farther your points go, but the more guest certificates may be needed.

Around the same time Wyndham also deleted the feature that let us rent or sell points to other owners. The points could be transferred from account to account. Wyndham said it's what the owners wanted. This let you take that measly 4K you might have left over and at least get a few dollars from someone who could use them to vacation. Wyndham wanted to make us rent the extra points from them rather than from each other.

All these things decrease the value of ownership, which of course is to the detriment of Wyndham's main business -- selling more points. One would think Wyndham would establish policies that enhance the value of ownership. Makes one wonder if they understand what they are doing.

 

[rrlongwell]

All these things decrease the value of ownership, which of course is to the detriment of Wyndham's main business -- selling more points. One would think Wyndham would establish policies that enhance the value of ownership. Makes one wonder if they understand what they are doing.

Who knows, according to some news reports, they were on the brink of bankrupcy a few years ago. Their stock, I think is doing well now though.

 

[chapjim]

Who knows, according to some news reports, they were on the brink of bankrupcy a few years ago. Their stock, I think is doing well now though.

Think how well they could be doing if they had policies that benefitted owners and had sales people who didn't make you feel like you need a bath.

 

[rrlongwell]

Think how well they could be doing if they had policies that benefitted owners and had sales people who didn't make you feel like you need a bath.

I think you maybe referring to the pre-Wyndham days in the growth phase of the old Fairfield system.

 

[ronparise]

I think you maybe referring to the pre-Wyndham days in the growth phase of the old Fairfield system.

Didnt you just report on how you were mistreated by the sales staff at National Harbor?

By the way stock price is not a good indicator of how well a company is managed, unless share price is the only goal of management. Management should take a longer view than their next quarters report

Bear Stearns had a stock-market value of $20 billion in January 2007, do you think the company was any better run than than in 2008, when it was sold for $236 million. Same company same management

The fact that Wyndhams stock price is more now than it was in the past does not mean its better managed; only that the market see value in the way they treat their customers...like crap

 

[rrlongwell]

As has been indicated earlier by many people, being treated by the Sales Arm and the Management core of some resorts that march to their fiddle is a way of life within Wyndham World. I understand the latter days of the Fairfield empire were fundamentally the same as the Wyndham of today and that is why they did not make it when their day was done. Long term, I would see a day that the timeshare arm is down to a management company and rental operations within Wyndham Worldwide. I do not know what the fate of the existing Fairshare Trust and the Access Trust will be.

 

[ronparise]

As has been indicated earlier by many people, being treated by the Sales Arm and the Management core of some resorts that march to their fiddle is a way of life within Wyndham World. I understand the latter days of the Fairfield empire were fundamentally the same as the Wyndham of today and that is why they did not make it when their day was done. Long term, I would see a day that the timeshare arm is down to a management company and rental operations within Wyndham Worldwide. I do not know what the fate of the existing Fairshare Trust and the Access Trust will be.

not much more than that now that there is no development going on. WAAM is how that can grow without building, but I dont see see an unending supply of busted condo developments. Perhaps another round of industry consolidation

 

[rrlongwell]

not much more than that now that there is no development going on. WAAM is how that can grow without building, but I dont see see an unending supply of busted condo developments. Perhaps another round of industry consolidation

Probably but before that probably spin-off on the Marriott model then mergers between the spin-offs.