Guidance from the experienced, becoming a member.

[agjr85]

Hi All
I’ll keep this short and sweet.

Recently vacationed in Orlando, was lured in by the attractive theme park promo. Went through the presentation, and we almost purchased, but walked out with a Discovery package instead. We have a few doubts, and wanted some truth.

1.) Is the Discovey program just a BS lure, seems like anything in the book has really high point requirements. Is it designed to keep the 300,000 points limited? We were told you could book studios, 1 BR, 2BR, 3BR, and even 4BR in some cases. The Discovery book maxes out at 2BR options across all the Wyndham resorts in the states. What gives?

2.) Not a timeshare, more of a club that has flexibility of when and where to travel. The selling point of not being locked in to a specific week or location is nice. I guess you just have to purchase a piece of a resort to join the club? We didn’t get into the contract, but it just sounded like a points membership. Am I actually purchasing a piece of the property? Will I own physical square footage at Bonnet Creek Resort?

3.) RCI weeks! Now here is where we perked up and really liked the program. So the sales guy kept referring to these RCI weeks, started with 4 and ended up offering 12 Open Access Unlimted weeks. The idea was if you didn’t want to cash in points or you didn’t have enough, you pay anywhere from $269-$319 for a room in any of the resorts from RCI’s network. The example used was going to a resort in Punta Cana DR, If I was a member i could hang on the my points, use a RCI week and pay $269 to go stay in a 5 star resort for a week(forgot the days/nights). So we were looking at a package of 105,000 points and figured well we’ll milk those points as best we can and really take advantage of having 12 weeks at $269-$319 and in theory vacation once a month. Too good to be true? I am seeing something about points still being required, or is that something else? Or is it a perk that is true but limited based on peak times or resort availability, similar to being on stand by for a flight?

4.) if the above is all gravy, what seems to be a realistic amount of points to own, I’m guessing 300,000+ if you want to cash In points and have no other out of pocket cost to book. The sales rep mentioned that if you book early, closer to the 10 month limit you get discounts on the points needed, example 200,000 resort would come down to 175,000 instead. Is that true or was it misinterpreted, do point savings exist?

5.) maint fees, seems that goes up every year. True?

6.) family/friends you can fit in your stay. So we used the example of booking the 3BR suite in Bonnet Creek. Our question was so how many people can we bring if we book, and we were told up to you as long as you are comfortable, so we said 20?!? And the answer was Yes, you have no limit. True or false? I assume the resort is still going to follow guide lines or 4 to a room and maybe some flexibility with a sofa bed for 2. Plus safety issues, no way you can have 20 people and the resort not noticing. Am I right?

Anything else I’m missing that I should consider? I’m typing up our cancellation letter and overnight it to them to cancel since we are still within our 10 day period.

So your help and guidance is appreciated.

 

[jwalk03]

1. You should rescind your purchase if you still can. If you really want to sample different Wyndham resorts, you can rent from existing owners.

2. It is a timeshare, but its a points based timeshare. Depends on if you buy Access or CWA to determine if you actually have a deeded ownership somewhere, but that really doesn't matter.

3. RCI weeks are typically lower quality resorts during shoulder and off season. (AT least the really cheap prices you were quoted.) You won't get 5-star weeks for $269.

4. Booking early does not get you any kind of points discount. Occasionally booking later may save you some points in shoulder and off season if Wydham offers a sale, but this is not that common in my experience. To figure out how many points you would need, you can view the points charts for any resort that is of interest to you to see how many points the various size units take in the various seasons. The number needed is not one size fits all, just depends on the number of people you plan to travel with, where you want to travel, and when.

5. MF increase every year almost without fail.

6. This is a straight out lie (one of the many you were told.) Every unit has a maximum occupancy. The maximum occupancy for a 3 BR at Bonnet Creek is 10. And that is with 2 people in each bed and 2 on the sleeper sofa.

Absolutely you should send your recession letter and then spend some time here on TUG learning about Wydnham and the various other timeshare systems out there to see if any of them is a good fit for you. Once you have learned all you can to make a wise decision than you can make a resale purchase and save thousands of dollars over developer costs, for the same product or very close to it depending on the particulars of the system you decide to buy into.

 

[agjr85]

Thanks for info Jwalk03.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm pretty agnostic on whether people should rescind the Discovery program - the last I heard someone mention the cost vs. points given (which admittedly was several years ago), it was in the ballpark of what an owner might pay in maintenance fees for a similar number of points. It's not like a retail points purchase where the open market value of the initial purchase drops by 95% as soon as you're out of the rescission period, and where I would tell someone to rescind immediately. If there are Wyndham resorts you know you're interested in visiting in the timeframe you have available to you, and you understand that some of the benefits they tried to sell you are exaggerated (as mentioned above, the limited value of the RCI certificates, or units having occupancy limits, etc.), Discovery is one way (though not the only way) to get a taste of the program. It's also possible to rescind and get that taste by renting from other owners.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Hi All
I’ll keep this short and sweet.

Recently vacationed in Orlando, was lured in by the attractive theme park promo. Went through the presentation, and we almost purchased, but walked out with a Discovery package instead. We have a few doubts, and wanted some truth.

1.) Is the Discovery program just a BS lure, seems like anything in the book has really high point requirements. Is it designed to keep the 300,000 points limited? We were told you could book studios, 1 BR, 2BR, 3BR, and even 4BR in some cases. The Discovery book maxes out at 2BR options across all the Wyndham resorts in the states. What gives?

It isn't a BS lure - it's a one time points package that you purchase that does have some program limitations as you have noted. It is really up to you whether you want to keep it or not. If you rent points, you will pay about $7/1000 on average for rentals - some more some less depending on location and demand (season). If you were to use the full 300k points in your Discovery package, that would equate to 300*7=$2100 dollars in comparison to taking a rental approach. Again these are general assumptions not real world, but we have to make certain assumptions when making comparisons right?

What was the theme park promo outta curiousity?

2.) Not a timeshare, more of a club that has flexibility of when and where to travel. The selling point of not being locked in to a specific week or location is nice. I guess you just have to purchase a piece of a resort to join the club? We didn’t get into the contract, but it just sounded like a points membership. Am I actually purchasing a piece of the property? Will I own physical square footage at Bonnet Creek Resort?

It's a points based system as opposed to a weeks based system - which offers more flexibility on usage. No you are not purchasing a piece of property, whether you choose a CWS or a CWA contract, neither equates to actual property ownership in the traditional sense when compared to the older weeks based timeshare systems.

3.) RCI weeks! Now here is where we perked up and really liked the program. So the sales guy kept referring to these RCI weeks, started with 4 and ended up offering 12 Open Access Unlimted weeks. The idea was if you didn’t want to cash in points or you didn’t have enough, you pay anywhere from $269-$319 for a room in any of the resorts from RCI’s network. The example used was going to a resort in Punta Cana DR, If I was a member i could hang on the my points, use a RCI week and pay $269 to go stay in a 5 star resort for a week(forgot the days/nights). So we were looking at a package of 105,000 points and figured well we’ll milk those points as best we can and really take advantage of having 12 weeks at $269-$319 and in theory vacation once a month. Too good to be true? I am seeing something about points still being required, or is that something else? Or is it a perk that is true but limited based on peak times or resort availability, similar to being on stand by for a flight?

As JWalk said, those RCI weeks certificates really aren't worth much. They are offered through another travel agency, not RCI directly, and they come with all kinds of restrictions on usage. The reason the salesperson can offer you 12 of them is because they really aren't worth much - honestly they are more of a gimmick than anything to create the appearance that you're getting something worthwhile to "sweeten the deal" once the sales person detects that you are actually thinking about a purchase of any kind. I received six RCI certificates when I bought into Wyndham last July. We have used one certificate and they all expire in May 2019. Five of them will be thrown in the trash.

4.) if the above is all gravy, what seems to be a realistic amount of points to own, I’m guessing 300,000+ if you want to cash In points and have no other out of pocket cost to book. The sales rep mentioned that if you book early, closer to the 10 month limit you get discounts on the points needed, example 200,000 resort would come down to 175,000 instead. Is that true or was it misinterpreted, do point savings exist?

This answer depends on your specific vacation needs with respect to how many points you need per year. How many people will typically vacation with you? How often do you want to vacation, during what seasons (prime or shoulder, off seasons, etc.). How flexible are you on vacation bookings? Here's a link to an article about timesharing that will help you to determine if a timeshare is a good fit for you and yours:

https://drcorysfawcett.com/the-case-for-timeshares-who-should-buy/

5.) maint fees, seems that goes up every year. True?

Yes, just like the price of anything else, MFs typically rise year to year, usually 2-4% dependent upon COLA/inflation along with any other resort specific maintenance impacts.

As JWalk said, there's no discounted points unless you are VIP and book within the 60 day discount window, or you take advantage of last minute booking discounts that are made available direct from Wyndham (there's an area on the owner login site that lists these types of discounts when available). What the sales person was probably indirectly referring to is booking in different seasons. Booking a room at any resort during shoulder/off season is going to require less points than booking the same room at the same resort during prime reason. But again, if you only want to vacation during prime season when everyone else also wants to vacation, then this concept won't apply to you.

6.) family/friends you can fit in your stay. So we used the example of booking the 3BR suite in Bonnet Creek. Our question was so how many people can we bring if we book, and we were told up to you as long as you are comfortable, so we said 20?!? And the answer was Yes, you have no limit. True or false? I assume the resort is still going to follow guide lines or 4 to a room and maybe some flexibility with a sofa bed for 2. Plus safety issues, no way you can have 20 people and the resort not noticing. Am I right?

Like JWalk said, every room has an occupancy limit. Commercial fire codes require this BTW, so it's a legal limit that Wyndham must abide by, nothing to do with Wyndham's prerogative here. This is the case with any commercial building in existence really.

Anything else I’m missing that I should consider? I’m typing up our cancellation letter and overnight it to them to cancel since we are still within our 10 day period.

So your help and guidance is appreciated.

Read the second article that is a follow-on to the first article I linked to above, here's the link to the second article:

https://drcorysfawcett.com/getting-the-most-from-your-timeshare/

A few of the recommendations in this second article are a bit dated - mostly because they are RCI centric, but the concepts are solid.

Our general recommendation here on TUG is to never purchase retail/developer points from a timeshare company. Rent points first, then if you decide Wyndham (or any other timeshare company for that matter) is right for you after having some good experiences renting, then you can go buy resale on the secondary market. If at some point in the future you decide you want VIP status with Wyndham and want to make a developer point purchase, there are folks like me, who made that decision, who can help you to navigate how best to get VIP status for the least amount of dollars possible.

 

[agjr85]

Thanks !

 

[joestein]

Just a couple of points.....

You can buy resale for less than your paid for the discovery package and you will get the same thing other than VIP benefits which you are probably not buying enough points to get anyway. Resale is literally a penny on the dollar. I think 500K is the minimum for silver VIP. They might try to trick you with bonus points for a few years.

1 - A lure? YES. BS? not really.

2 - You buy a week and it is transfered to a trust which gives you points equal to the amount that it would cost to use that week. You can then use those points to book any other time in the trust. Some weeks can be over 500K points, some less than 100K points. Many around 200K give or take a bit.

3 - RCI Weeks, yes you can buy weeks on RCI for $269-319. However, it is not quite simple as that. That price would usually what is called last resort, which is resorts within 45 days of check in that are still available. While not impossible, you are not going to find anything prime or close to. With the carribean resorts you have to be very careful as most of the require all-inclusive fees. The fees are very expensive, most of them are over $100/person/per day. Good Resorts are $200-300/person/per day. We looked into The Reserve at Paradisus Palma Real, the fees are $200/day/person. That is $800/day or $5600 per week for a family of 4. That is before tax which is around 25% in Punta Cana. That brings the fees to $7000. A tad bit more that the $269-$319, which is why they are always available. You can book the resort directly for at least a $1000-$2000 less.

You can get some good exchanges at RCI, but you will also pay a fee of $250(I think) for the exchange and it will cost you points. About 170K for a 2-bedroom in red if I remember correctly.

4 - I would think around 200K annually would be good for a weeks vacation.

5 - Yes. I have 160K points each year and 128K points every other year. I used to pay around $900 in maintenance in 2006, now it is over $1500.

6 - Complete BS - there is a limit. Some resorts provide bands to use the facilities, they will not give bands over the amounts for the room.

You can use the discovery package as a vacation and see how it works out. If you like the system, but resale.

Joe

 

[agjr85]

Thanks Joe

Already put the letter in the mail to rescind. I'll give a few tries from renting and then def look into resale.