Fairfield Resorts and Marriot

[John&Laurie]

I have spent about a 4 to 6 weeks, taking apart the Marriott Timeshare system. I became comfortable with the idea of purchasing a platinum resale week at either Grande Ocean or Williamsburg Ford Colony.

About 2 weeks ago, I began taking apart the Fairfield Resorts timeshare system. As a comparion to Marriott, I am looking at either Myrtle Beach or Williamsburg UDI resale Fairfield points.

There is a major difference in cost. I am missing something completely.

Will someone who is familiar with both timeshares - give me a high level comparison of the differences ? I am missing something completely.

Thanks,

John

 

[Potential Buyer Scott]

You might have better luck posting this in the Marriott forum. Just a suggestion.

Scott

 

[timeos2]

Do you want a resort or a resort system?

To boil it down to a very simplified level the Fairfield system is about 70 resorts that you can freely choose between using points while Marriott is a single resort purchase that you must use a third party - II - to use other Marriott resorts. FF is a pure points based systems while Marriott is a week for week exchange. FF is much less to buy and onging fees are lower while, especially the newer resorts, are nearly equal in quality.

In my view if using multiple resorts is your goal FF is the better system. If you wish to own one super resort and trade to somehwere else occasionally using a resort with great trade value Marriott is a good choice. If cost is important there is no comaprison. On resale FF can't be beat for value.

 

[jenninlaca]

I agree that the new Fairfield resorts (and more are being built), are comperable in quality to Marriott. Fairfield is the best pure value in timesharing, in my opinion, when you take into account the low resale cost of points, the flexibility and the number of resorts you can go to.

If you want to be able to travel to many resorts without having to deposit and exchange, and if you think you are likely to want partial week or weekend stays, go with Fairfield. Much more flexible and it will be cheaper.

 

[jme]

Marriott vs Fairfield

To respectively disagree with a previous poster, I would say that the Fairfield system rates overall about a 7, maybe 8 if generous, whereas Marriott rates a 10 in the timeshare world. The Marriott resorts are better located and are much more plush, and you will find the amenities a lot better. LOT better. Marriott is continuing to build at a fairly rapid rate, all over-----and mega-resorts at that....maybe both are buiolding at a rapid rate.....but Marriott is building more "10's". Consider Frenchman's Reef area in Virgin Isles. Another example: take Myrtle Beach area...Fairfield's best timeshare is Seawatch, but it cannot light a candle to Marriott's Oceanwatch. And Fairfield's points system is always going to rise as to what is required to get a prime week, and you will lose on that one count alone. Marriott's prices will rise too, but once you own, it's only the maintenance fee, which is not unreasonable. High, but not unreasonable. (You get what you pay for....and i've seen firsthand how wonderfully Marriott upgrades and refurbishes their resorts on a rigid schedule----total turnover of furniture and soft goods, and addition of granite countertops....that's good! Awesome makeovers! ) We have been to many Marriott resorts all over the country (and also have access to ALL their great hotels worldwide...like County Hall and Grosvenor Square in London ---we've stayed at both.....and also Paris's hotel on Champs Elysee ...plus great JW Marriotts in Washington DC, and all other big cities, just to name a few...even World Center Hotel in Orlando, & Frenchman's Reef Hotel near site of under-construction timeshare) ......As for Marriott timeshares, we've stayed at Newport Coast Villas (one of THE premiere locations anywhere...an awesome resort---owners: you should be proud!------....nothing in the Fairfield system even compares to that one resort) , Park City's Summit Watch and Mountainside, Manor Club in Williamsburg Tn, Kaua'i Beach Club, Grande Vista and Cypress Harbour in Orlando, Palm Beach Shores' Ocean Pointe....the list keeps getting better each year for Marriott, and the quality will remain superior to anything Fairfield does. Fairfield is near the top in the timeshare experience, but overall THE top player is Marriott. It boils down to what you want. Let me also add that the Marriotts have a better trade potential within Interval International, not just to other Marriotts only, but to any other II resort. And II is again superior to RCI and to the points exchange....that one is a no-brainer, if you've been reading the recent news and posts regarding exchange companies. Everybody has preferences, and I've even considered buying an RCI resort just to get into the system....but then I'll read another negative RCI story, and look at an RCI resort of note, and I can't see the benefit, relatively speaking. And friends from TUG who own both have said the same to me. The real answer is : Buy the resort you wish to USE year after year (sorta like picking out your spouse!) and just go with your wallet and your heart. Actually, I don't think you can make a mistake if you love to travel. You are at least looking at two great players in the timeshare world. I'm not a Fairfield owner, but I have done my homework. The final conclusion, for me at least, happens to coincide with the opinions of others with whom I've talked at length. And I think I'm accurate as to my rating of the two systems. You could always rent at both, and then decide after you get a feel for the two systems. There's really almost TOO much information now , especially on the internet, and in doing your homework, it will seem confusing. Good luck, jme

 

[taffy19]

What is your feeling about Trendwest/Worldmark joining with Fairfield Resorts? Now that would give you a very big choice of timeshares all over the country.


We like the Marriott Resorts too and have seen all of them in Hawaii. The Waiohai is a great resort and NCV too but we like one of Marriott's first ones in CA too which is in Palm Desert.

 

[jme]

answer

What is your feeling about Trendwest/Worldmark joining with Fairfield Resorts? Now that would give you a very big choice of timeshares all over the country.


We like the Marriott Resorts too and have seen all of them in Hawaii. The Waiohai is a great resort and NCV too but we like one of Marriott's first ones in CA too which is in Palm Desert.

You're right....more & more choices. Seems like that connection would give more West coast resorts. Each resort system seems to have a different "theme", as it were, because some are better for Western destinations, others for East coast & Florida, gulf coast, etc. It's all a matter of WHERE you wish to go, time after time. After a while, the frequent flier miles wear thin, so you'll PERHAPS settle down to a one or two resort area. Some owners are only happy in Hawaii. We still have a couple hundred thousand+ FF miles, but drive to most of our resort stays. It's a tough choice, so why don't you buy TWO ?.....one in each system, and then explore the world. Crazy? absolutely not. jme

 

[Kilby5924]

I have owned Fairfield and I now own Marriott and the difference is like night and day. I bought a unit with Fairfield when they started there points program. Never has a company made as many promise that were unfilled. Every time Fairfield built a new resort they would increased the number of points needed to get into the newer resort in addition they would give bonus points based own how many points you owned so a person could buy three weeks worth of points and end with enough points for three addtional weeks of time. (I never actual understood how they could do that if the point were supposed to be tied to an interest in a resort were did the bonuses point come from?) this practice actual devalued the points that I had since that person was given preference over my points and he could end up getting three week in a resort that I couldn't get into for one week even if I had the points. Even people who bought enough points for this special status (vip) soon found out that Fairfield could and did start a new level and gave the new level of vip more points in bonus than they had thus devaluing their points.
Beyond that compare the quality of resort where Marriott and Fairfield both have resorts and you will see it not even close Williamsburg, Myrtle beach, NJ, Orlando, Hawaii and now Vegas.
Sheldon

 

[dougp26364]

That is one thing I've noticed about Fairfield. They seem to keep coming up with new ways to get their members to always need to buy more points.

I can't comment on the quality of Fairfield vs Marriott but it always seems the Marriott has better location or positioning in an area. It's always seemed to be the difference between prime location and second choice location.

I will say that points based reservation systems (Fairfield) tend to be a lot more flexible than weeks based reservation systems (Marriott). I can say that Hilton (points based reservations) is a lot more user friendly than Marriott. I would assume Fairfield would be the same.

 

[John&Laurie]

If I pay $25,000 resale for a Grande Ocean, platinum ocean view timeshare then I will have a certain level of expectations.

If I pay $5,000 resale for 250,000 Fairfield Fairshare UDI points (2 cents per point) at Myrtle Beach then I will have a different level of expectations.

I need to understand the cost, value and expectations associated with each timeshare system in order to make an informed decision before buying.

Thanks to all for their input.

John

 

[timeos2]

The value is in FF

John - And the "point" is (sorry) that the $25K gets you into a beautiful resort - certainly a top level in the area - but virtually no guaranteed access of anything remotely similar anywhere else except, if you are lucky, another of the rather limited number of Marriott resorts. And besides the higher purchase cost comes much higher annual fees. And be careful as Marriott has a history of walking away from resorts they tire of or that won't go along with their demands for renovations/improvements. Yet the resorts they own have been known to lack in those areas with age. They aren't perfect (no timeshare is, hard to believe isn't it?)

FF isn't quite up to Marriott in the overall resort "look and feel" but it isn't far off in the last 30 resorts they have built. And the complaint that the new resorts take more points to stay at - why not? It would cost more to buy into a newer Marriott too. The beauty is that old or new FF points spend the same. If you buy enough, on resale of course, to handle the majority of your trips you are all set. If once and awhile you are short you can borrow or rent extras easily. And the fact that FF runs over 70 resorts AND gives you access - with a request first type procedure - to all of RCI's resorts it is an unbeatable value. We did the math and $25K vs 5K - 70 resorts vs 25 or so - no exchange fees vs dealing with II to trade - weeks vs split weeks if we desired and annual fees about 1/3 lower. We didn't have to think too long even though we LOVED the Manor House in Williamsburg where we were staying we ending up buying (resale - remember in case I forgot RESALE) deeded points at Kinsgate (FF). Those points have taken us to every new FF resort we wanted, plus the older ones, and we have never felt the need to buy more. We have rented or borowed a few times but it was very inexpensive to do so. Even if we did decide to add some points they are cheap to buy. Far cheaper than another week of Marriott would be.

Absolutely nothing against Marriott as I point to them as a beacon of the best in timeshares. I just can't justify the extra cost to get, as we see it, far less flexibility and choices. The minor quality difference at some resorts isn't worth the big price difference to us.

 

[Steve]

A different perspective

John -
And be careful as Marriott has a history of walking away from resorts they tire of or that won't go along with their demands for renovations/improvements.

While it is true that Marriott has walked away from a few of their older resorts, it should be noted that a number of HOAs at Fairfield resorts have actually thrown out Fairfield as the management company. Marriott may have let a few resorts go, but the fact that Fairfield has been involuntarily fired by a number of resorts is hardly a ringing endorsement for the long term quality of their management.

As for maintenance fees, while Marriott's are expensive, Fairfield's newer resorts aren't exactly cheap, either. If you're looking for a flexible system with reasonable fees, try WorldMark...not Fairfield.

I think both Fairfield and Marriott have strengths and weaknesses. However, no resort system loses its value faster on the resale market than Fairfield. Your Grande Ocean week will cost a lot more to start with...but it will also be worth a lot more 10 years from now.

When it comes to exchanging, a quality Marriott week will exchange into other quality resorts...not just Marriotts...but also Westins, Four Seasons, Hyatts, etc. Trade power of Marriott weeks is really extremely good. It's a traditional weeks system...but I'd say that if you're looking for upscale exchanges...you'll fair a lot better with a Marriott Grande Ocean week than you will with almost any Fairfield.

Steve

 

[tjk2134]

I have spent many hours trying to understand timesharing. I have sat through maybe 15 "give me some gifts" presentations, about that time i got interested in purchasing a timeshare, so I went back to more presentations, Yes I took their gifts but I was there to learn about the "systems" and one common theme all sales people and then the closing manager of the presentation would tell me after I ask soooo many questions is "YOU'VE JUST GOT TO JUMP IN, YOU'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT UNTIL YOU DO." this was really unacceptable to me. This is real money were talking about usually between $15,000 and $25,000.
I almost pulled the trigger at a Marriott presentation. We believe marriott is a step above the rest and we wanted to be apart of that experience. the sales person and 2 managers were there trying to close the deal, I am a deal maker, that is my calling, they were at rock bottom and I wanted more, I was asking for extras they could not deliver and they told me that exact thing. I was very impressed with them, I was begging for someone to take advantage and lie to me and they (Marriott) wouldn't. We parted as friends without a deal made.. 2 months later I bought a resale for the same property, same platinum time for 75% less money. Best thing I ever did. even though i bought resale they STILL treat me like I own the company. after 2 years of ownership NOW I feel like I know how timesharing works. since then I have bought 2 other resales, another II and an RCI.
I tell this story only because I think few people will go to the extreme to understand and max out their ownership experience as some on TUG do, we are the exception. Most will buy and just drift through the system, only after they loose a week or two will they get involved, others will loose a week or not get their trade and blame the system.
I have spent alot of time in Marriotts and Fairfields and to me 5 star IS
5 star they have ALL been perfect inside. I am overwhelmed each time I step into one of these timeshares.
The difference is;
1. location, it seems like the Marriotts are generally a little closer to the action.
but the other and more important difference to me is
2; "other guest". I don't mean to step on any toes or cause problems but fairfields appeal to a lower economic class of people, I think mostly do to their cheap rentals. My family has noticed more than once at different cities, you sit pool side at a fairfield, look around, do the same at a marriott and there are just different types of people there. One day my wife left her watch and wedding ring in the pool changing room at OUR Marriott, 3 hours later she realized, we went back and someone had turned them in at the front desk. Lucky YES. I compare this to at a Fairfield someone broke in my car and stole my basketball. Unlucky YES. this and a hundred other small things have led me to form my opinion.
I go to fairfields BECAUSE of the cheap rentals but to be an owner i want the Marriott experience.

 

[dougp26364]

..... even though i bought resale they STILL treat me like I own the company....

Marriott is very much into protecting the brand. We were recently at an owners update presentation with a salesman new to the position. Our previous salesman had retired. In discussing things with him we were told he was given the owners rep. position not because he was the best selling salesman on the floor but because his survet comment cards rated the highest in prospect satisfaction for being treated fairly and respectfully.

His comment was that Marriott tries to protect the brand at all costs. As far as I've seen they treat everyone as if they were the most important person around.....within limits of course. Everyone can't have the top floor penthouse on every stay.

 

[Avery]

I will admit having limited experience with Fairfield, having stayed only at Newport and Bentley Brook and having heard first hand reviews (hearsay nonetheless) from friends staying at other locations, but they just can't compare with Marriott in terms of quality/luxury. The Newport location we enjoyed was great, but would never be a Marriott, it was small, with no amenities (and no window or air in the bedroom), but in a great location. A typical RCI Gold/Silver Crown profile, imho, NOT Marriott... If Fairfield is building and trying to compete, great, but what of the subpar locations? Even a "B" grade Marriott is awesome compared to the Fairfield we stayed at in Newport; the Bentley Brook location had more amenites; they had learned by then what they needed to get Gold Crown status in terms of pool/activities/etc..., but we still had major complaints... We have good friends that toured Marriott Hilton Head and Fairfield Williamsburg in the same vacation looking to purchase... they ponied up the extra $$ for Marriott.

 

[Potential Buyer Scott]

Recent Grande Ocean buyer thought process

I am in the process of closing on my first TS and it is at MGO so I have been very interested in this discussion.

I think all of you are saying there is no "right answer" to this question, only things that different people value, and that is exactly right.

If you were given either one for free, almost everyone would take the Marriott and the number one reason is not the building, room quality, amenities or trade value but the location. (If you get up in the morning and want to drink your coffee with your feet in the surf, do you want to walk a mile to it or 50 yards?)

Then the question becomes, "is it worth the incremental cost?" This is what John was trying to reroute the conversation to in his last comment. This answer is not clear cut and comes down to preferences and things each person and family values most, but let me propose a way to think about the cost that may help since, in my simple mind I have a hard time thinking about comparing $20,000 today vs. benefits forever, so, I try to turn forever into a time period that I can relate to, one year (or one week of usage).

Actual annual cost of the MGO for one year equals the purchase price you assumed ($25,000) x a reasonable interest rate I could earn over a long period of time (let's say 5%, about the yield on the 10 year treasury) = about $1,250 of pre-tax income I could earn every year risk free with $25,000 X .72 (to remove taxes at a 28% rate) = about $950 of income lost by buying the timeshare instead plus $900 MF you have to pay = about $1,850 annual cost.

Similar calculation for fairfield with $5,000 upfront cost plus $800 MF gets you to an annual cost of about $975.

I think this annual basis comparison is the best way to compare costs (MBA, CPA, and CFA charterholder if you are wondering) because you can think about it on a per year basis (or week of usage) basis instead of in incremental $20,000 forever.

The question that each of us has to ask him or her self when comparing 2 TS options is, are the added benefits of the more expensive week worth an additional xxx amount ($1,850 marriott annual cost -$975 Fairfield annual cost = $875 incremental cost in this case) every year to me and my family?

By the way, this analysis assumes a cash buyer. If you have to borrow, then the calculation changes and the incremental cost of buying the the more expensive week will be will usually be higher relative to the cheaper week due to the higher cost of borrowing (unless you play the no-interest credit card game), so a person that has to borrow will usually need to have a higher preference for the more expensive week to still choose it.

I hope this gives you a way to think about your situation and make an informed decision.

Scott

 

[timeos2]

Becareful what you compare

Scott does a great job of summarizing the cost difference but ignores another very major factor. When you spend that money on Marriott you are only buying one resort and an option to trade, through a third party, to others. Yes they can be very nice resorts but it is a week for week system. Buying into FF means you have 70+ resorts as your "home" resort and still have the week for week trade opportunity if those aren't enough.

Another post speaks to quality and location. That is a two edged sword. Most of the newer FF resorts are in prime locations. How prime? They are often found on the same block or next door to the Marriott if there is one in that area. But with so many more resorts FF is found in many areas Marriott isn't. Yes some are older resorts but isn't it better to have a resort available even if it's older than none at all? The majority are Gold Crown or 5 Star - a few aren't. I can think of at least a few places where the FF resort is better located than the Marriott.

Now once again I am not degrading Marriott as I REALLY like them. I have stayed at 4 and have two of the newer ones on my radar. But I no longer see the big spread in quality there used to be between the older FF and the Marriotts. In fact the newest FF's - about 10 I've seen - are every bit as good as Marriott in quality. You cannot compare FF that are 10+ years old to the newest Marriott OR the newest FF. They aren't in the same league.

You have some great responses that cover all the bases. Now you have to decide which resale is the better value for you. Either Marriott or Fairfield is a great timeshare to own and utilize.

 

[dougp26364]

One other factor to consider is how well the older resorts have been maintained? Has Fairfield maintained or significantly improved their older resorts? Will they maintain their newer resorts in the future? I can't answer that question myself as I'm not a Fairfield owner.

I can say that, from what I've seen, Marriott charges a pretty high MF but they tend to maintain the resorts they build to the best standards possible. I am aware that there is a law suit pending concering an older property that Marriott refused to renew it's contract at for not maintaining the property properly. I don't know if this was a Marriott built property or one that had been built by another devolper and only managed by Marriott. I'm not even certain that really matters.

Building them to look pretty is one thing. Maintainint that standard is another thing all together.

 

[John&Laurie]

I want to thank everyone for their continued input into this discussion.

John

 

[edmund36]

Marriott Purchase?

I am reading thru the threads on Marriott; I'm a FF owner. Are there any hoops involved with obtaining a Marriott T/S, any up charges, etc? Different type memberships?

I do like what I'm hearing about them. I see that they are in top 10 & 30 resort polls.

 

[dougp26364]

I am reading thru the threads on Marriott; I'm a FF owner. Are there any hoops involved with obtaining a Marriott T/S, any up charges, etc? Different type memberships?

I do like what I'm hearing about them. I see that they are in top 10 & 30 resort polls.

If you're a multiple week owner, there are some advantages in that you can book a week 13 months out rather than the regular 12. I believe it has to be at your home resort to do this though (I'm not sure, good question for the Marriott forum). That 13 month rule can be real handy if you absolutely have to have a particular week that would be very popular. Some resorts have holiday week's that are almost impossible to get. Even people who don't want to use that popular week will book it believing it will have better exchange power.

Trading within the Marriott system has an exchange fee of $79.

There is no Gold, Platinum, or super dupper member status other than owning mult. weeks, which may get you preferential treatment at your home resort for unit location (or maybe not).

They do have weeks sorted into seasons of Silver, Gold and Platinum. Prices vary for each season as do MF's. Exchange power within the Marriott system (and probably I.I.) is based upon the season you own.

Marriott attempts to keep internal exchanges to a like for like unit. IOW, if you want to exhange a one bedroom, you should only find or be offered one bedroom units unless the resort you wish to exchange into only has 2 or 3 bedroom units. However, I've found they don't always adhere to that policy. I've exchanged a silver season studio unit for a platinum season one bedroom unit once (only once, was probably an anomally).

Marriott's system is pretty straight forward as far as timeshares go. It's by far not the most flexible system I've seen but it's about average for most.

 

[Jya-Ning]

Not Marriott owner.

FF was purchased by Cendant at 2001, so there are at least 3 types of resorts.
1. Inherited from old FF since most people works for old FF still manage that group, it can be considered as developed by FF today. I know Williamsburg's Kingsgate is one of it. And they just in the process of remodelling and redo the interior design of it.
2. developed by other group, like equivest. ALL RI resorts in on that catageory. I believe HI Kona is also in the group
3. Newly developed after CD purchase. Orlando BC, DC's Alexandria, Atlantic City, Los Vagas, San Diego Harbour Light, HI's Waikiki Beach Walk.

The point, once it is set for the same resort, and complete the development has not been changed.

Being that their target customer is on the middle income level, I would not think they will actually try to get the most prime location. But they will get pretty close. And their penthouse is pretty good looking.

Being that Marriott is targeting at top 3% level, I would think they have to have the best location. Although their location is nice, I don't think that is a true statement (the best).

FF is under big corp. It is bought and operated for the profit of corp share holder. Now in 2006, they will be spinned out as Wyndham. Will be interesting to see what they become under that corp. Marriott although is big corp, is actually more like under the same family. I will assume the culture is very different. And Marriott will have better reputation since it is more stable.

Although FF does loss most of its retail purchase money, it has the most liquidated market. No other TS can claim it. And few TS that does not have value even if sell in $1.

FF does allow the POA (or HOA) more control of it. They also try very hard to control the POA. With point system, it is a less feeling of ownership thus allow the developer easier task to control the POA.

They have issues when they first push out the point system, and everytimes when they purchase other resort groups. That causes them been boot out. As an owner, do you perfer be able to boot someone or be booted by someone? They still have the total control of the trust which controls their internal exchange program.

FF allows internal exchange, and it allows enough flexiblity while it allows the owner to control their behavior to take the best benifit. It has housekeep credit, and transaction rules, but as an owner, you can control that expense. If you feel annoying by that expense, they give you those VIP level to get rid of it. And by you control the way you spend, it helps the POA to control their expense. It is a system that if majority of its owner is smart enough to take the best use of it provides, it can still survive. Don't know if other system can says that.

As pointwise, FF's point is close to proportion to the number of bedrooms. While some system is closed to the rent price they can get from different unit size. That results their 2 BR MF higher. On the other hand, their 1BR MF will be lower than the traditional timeshare.

Jya-Ning