Did Timeshare Agent Lie?

[spoon]

We went to a 4 hour timeshare spiel. [Not to worry, we said no multiple times and final got our free gift. We are never ever going to one of these talks/tours again.] At any rate the timeshare agent made two statements for which I question their veracity.

1) Currently, we only own points. He said that we should add a weeks unit to our portfolio. The reason is that points owners see only points resorts and weeks owners see just weeks units when searching available inventory. So by owning both you get to see "all" of them. Is this true?

2) When searching inventory a 20,000 points owners will see less availability than someone who has 100,000 points. Is this true?

We suspect both are false.

 

[claraj]

Please post what system this is for.

 

[tschwa2]

He probably did lie but without knowing the resort/resort group it is hard to say about whether those specific things are true. Generally weeks inventory is different than points inventory but that doesn't mean that doing a week for week trade is advantageous or that the inventory that would become available would be anything that you would want.

 

[bnoble]

I don't even need to read your post to answer your question: Yes, the agent lied (about something). Whether the agent lied about the thing you care about? Harder to say.

Assuming you mean Marriott: #1 might be true by the letter of the law, but in practice it is not material. Honestly I've never been able to sort out Trust vs. Other, but everyone who has tried says the same thing: the inventory is the same.

I don't know about #2, but would be surprised.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

4 hours....wow!

 

[kanerf]

The more correct question is did the salesman say anything that was true.

 

[Mongoose]

We went to a 4 hour timeshare spiel. [Not to worry, we said no multiple times and final got our free gift. We are never ever going to one of these talks/tours again.] At any rate the timeshare agent made two statements for which I question their veracity.

1) Currently, we only own points. He said that we should add a weeks unit to our portfolio. The reason is that points owners see only points resorts and weeks owners see just weeks units when searching available inventory. So by owning both you get to see "all" of them. Is this true?

2) When searching inventory a 20,000 points owners will see less availability than someone who has 100,000 points. Is this true?

We suspect both are false.

Never go over 90 minutes. Your time is valuable.

1) That seems strange, which system did you go to? Was it related to some type of elite/VIP status that provides early access?
2) I find that truly hard to believe.

 

[DeniseM]

THEY ALL LIE.... [except SkoopKona]

 

[TUGBrian]

dont even need to read the post, the answer is yes =)

 

[e.bram]

I miss the freebees, i don't get invited to TS presentations any more?
I enjoyed them and the gifts.

 

[goaliedave]

We went to a 4 hour timeshare spiel. [Not to worry, we said no multiple times and final got our free gift. We are never ever going to one of these talks/tours again.] At any rate the timeshare agent made two statements for which I question their veracity.

1) Currently, we only own points. He said that we should add a weeks unit to our portfolio. The reason is that points owners see only points resorts and weeks owners see just weeks units when searching available inventory. So by owning both you get to see "all" of them. Is this true?

2) When searching inventory a 20,000 points owners will see less availability than someone who has 100,000 points. Is this true?

We suspect both are false.

Were his lips moving?

 

[4TimeAway]

4 hours... There must have been beer, wine and cheese involved.

 

[ScoopKona]

THEY ALL LIE....

Not true.

I never had to tell a lie to sell Hyatt. I knew what the guests were paying to stay in Key West. I knew how often they visited. I showed them the numbers and one in five people bought.

It was an easy, fun, high-paying job at a time when I really needed that. It also got me my first real estate license -- which led me on the journey which ended with "me owning a farm in Hawaii." If I hadn't started selling timeshare in Key West, I wouldn't be a farmer in Hawaii. You can directly connect the dots.

If any weeks are available in Key West, it's STILL better paying the developer price compared to staying in Key West hotels. (It's much better buying a resale, of course.)

The broker in Key West remains a dear friend of mine. He fired salespeople who pitched investment. We were all told "You're selling a big, complicated toy. And that's how you're going to sell it. The people who are buying it aren't worried about the money -- they're already spending it several times over."

EDIT -- I just toddled over to Hyatt hotels and plugged in the Fantasy Fest 2023 dates. That'll run $10,000. I know people who have been going there for Fantasy Fest for 30 years. The Hyatt timeshares are nicer than the hotel and the costs -- even at developer prices -- amortize into nothing in a matter of a few years. That's why there are so many people who own a month and a half at Sunset Harbor. That's also why people were paying full-freight for Maui. There are some places where the number pencil out.

 

[4TimeAway]

Not true.

We were all told "You're selling a big, complicated toy. And that's how you're going to sell it. The people who are buying it aren't worried about the money -- they're already spending it several times over."

There are some places where the number pencil out.

Agreed.

I think that's the fundamental issue. Timeshares make sense even at full developer costs on some deals. There are many members who bought developer units, use them and love them.

Most of the issues are that some salespeople lie, pitch heat, or conveniently neglect to mention maintenance fees, etc. From what I can tell, the rub comes when salespeople downgrade the product due to buyers' budgets to three days midweek every other year, and neglect to mention the product changed.

Which brings me to the other truth... Timeshares are COMPLICATED. There is a learning curve and 60-90 minutes just can't capture the product. Use it, learn what works for you and study how to unlock value that's there.

It might just be the optimization issue of what's good enough and what do you want?

Resale can be an insanely incredible value, if you get the right property and terms.

 

[ScoopKona]

Which brings me to the other truth... Timeshares are COMPLICATED. There is a learning curve and 60-90 minutes just can't capture the product. Use it, learn what works for you and study how to unlock value that's there.

No, they truly aren't. Slide on over to the Hyatt timeshare sub-forum and read the stickied post I wrote. My pitch was 30 minutes. If they didn't understand it in 30 minutes, timeshares weren't for them -- they should stay with hotel rooms. I spent most of my time giving "what to do in Key West" advice.

"Are you actually going to start the presentation?"

Why? Do you really want it to start? We have to be together for 90 minutes. But I only need 30. So I do this instead.

 

[Mongoose]

No, they truly aren't. Slide on over to the Hyatt timeshare sub-forum and read the stickied post I wrote. My pitch was 30 minutes. If they didn't understand it in 30 minutes, timeshares weren't for them -- they should stay with hotel rooms. I spent most of my time giving "what to do in Key West" advice.

"Are you actually going to start the presentation?"

Why? Do you really want it to start? We have to be together for 90 minutes. But I only need 30. So I do this instead.

I assume that was long before they introduced three non-compatible systems with the same name . Don’t get me wrong. I love my legacy Hyatt and it is simple, but what they did this summer is ridiculous.

 

[ScoopKona]

I assume that was long before they introduced three non-compatible systems with the same name . Don’t get me wrong. I love my legacy Hyatt and it is simple, but what they did this summer is ridiculous.

Yes, this was back when the Pritzkers were running the show. Hyatt was a dead-simple, easy-to-understand, value-packed system -- even at developer prices. All I needed was someone with a decent income and half a brain. If this person paid Key West hotel rates, that was a likely sale. I sometimes sold two a day. There's good reason there are so many Snowbirds who have multiple weeks at Sunset Harbor. They're STILL loving their units.

My week is worth a good percentage of what I paid for it. Two of my best friends were co-workers. One of them didn't make it through Covid. He called me up from a timeshare in France five years ago. "20 years later, and it still works exactly the way we said it does." It's a pity he's on the wrong side of the ground because I'd love to have him here at the farm. He was precisely the right kind of person for this peculiar thing we're doing.

It was one of the best jobs I ever had. Don't get me wrong -- I'm glad I'm here and not there. But being there, got me here.

 

[4TimeAway]

Yes, this was back when the Pritzkers were running the show. Hyatt was a dead-simple, easy-to-understand, value-packed system -- even at developer prices. All I needed was someone with a decent income and half a brain. If this person paid Key West hotel rates, that was a likely sale. I sometimes sold two a day. There's good reason there are so many Snowbirds who have multiple weeks at Sunset Harbor. They're STILL loving their units.

My week is worth a good percentage of what I paid for it. Two of my best friends were co-workers. One of them didn't make it through Covid. He called me up from a timeshare in France five years ago. "20 years later, and it still works exactly the way we said it does." It's a pity he's on the wrong side of the ground because I'd love to have him here at the farm. He was precisely the right kind of person for this peculiar thing we're doing.

It was one of the best jobs I ever had. Don't get me wrong -- I'm glad I'm here and not there. But being there, got me here.

Thank you. I want to assume the worst.

Selling value and opportunity is easy. I suspect if the founders ran companies, this BS wouldn't exist. (BS=Bad Stuff)

Honestly, I'd feel good spending 50% more than resale, please don't tell anyone, but even double and I'd be happy. The initial offer was $80,000 at 12% and I picked something up for under $10,000. The crap they wanted $25,000 @ 12% was trash and I couldn't give it away.

I didn't try to grind or waste time. It was a NO.

If only TUG could get Pritzkers, Hiltons, etc. reengaged in the business. There is opportunity to revitalize timeshares in a FAIR manner.

 

[ScoopKona]

If only TUG could get Pritzkers, Hiltons, etc. reengaged in the business. There is opportunity to revitalize timeshares in a FAIR manner.

While I totally agree, there are a limited number of places where the numbers pencil out. Key West is easy. Hotel rooms can easily run $1K per night. (Particularly in winter and for Fantasy Fest, or the Songwriter's Fest, or Poker Run, or Lobster Mini Season, or Lighted Boat Parade, or any of the other 40 festivals they have every year.)

Kaanapali Beach has these kind of numbers as well. Manhattan, Sedona, San Francisco, Napa, Aspen, Telluride, Cape Cod (summer only). Nobody has to lie to sell this. The numbers work. Here's what it costs. Here's what you're already paying. Either you are capable of doing elementary-school math or you are not. (I never said that part out loud.) You can't tell me you visit Key West for two weeks every February and not see how this works. You're spending $15,000 per year on hotel rooms. That's a 0% ROI and you don't have a kitchen or a hot tub in the room. It takes three years to not only break even but be ahead of the game.

And then it was either "hand me a pen" or "We gots the cancer, so bad. Cancer. We don't know what an oncologist is. But we gots that cancer."

I never met so many people with "cancer" as I did when I was selling timeshares.

 

[spoon]

THANKS everyone for your replies. Btw, the "system" is RCI and the resort where we had the timeshare presentation was Massanutten.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

THANKS everyone for your replies. Btw, the "system" is RCI and the resort where we had the timeshare presentation was Massanutten.

It is true that RCI weeks & points inventory is not identical. - so not a lie
You can find both in the TUG Free TS Forum

With RCI points a good ratio is a penny a point
[ see VV Grandview - in points / higher ratio weeks ]

With RCI weeks - a 2 bedroom done as 2 deposits getting ~50ish Trading Power (TP / TPU) would be a target
If MF is $ 1000 your cost is $ 20 per TPU- [ There are TUG members with unicorns at ~ $10 ]
A resale Massanutten 4 bedroom / high demand week could work - you can also use half & deposit the other 2 bedroom

Upfront and disposal cost should be considered.

 

[tschwa2]

THANKS everyone for your replies. Btw, the "system" is RCI and the resort where we had the timeshare presentation was Massanutten.

# 2 is false. While you wouldn't be able to book 100,000 point property using a single use year if you had 20,000 points, you could borrow and bank with almost no additional rci fees for up to 60,000 using 3 years worth of points and if you pay to extend you could get up to 80,000.

 

[Ski-Dad]

He said that we should add a weeks unit to our portfolio. The reason is that points owners see only points resorts and weeks owners see just weeks units when searching available inventory. So by owning both you get to see "all" of them. Is this true?

Now we know this is RCI, we can say the above statement is false. Points owners can see both points and weeks inventory. Weeks owners can only see weeks. I own a VV Grandview 49K points unit. I can see RCI weeks with my RCI points. I do not own weeks.

 

[tschwa2]

Now we know this is RCI, we can say the above statement is false. Points owners can see both points and weeks inventory. Weeks owners can only see weeks. I own a VV Grandview 49K points unit. I can see RCI weeks with my RCI points. I do not own weeks.

While this is supposed to be true, there are times when weeks inventory is deposited and made available to weeks owners up to 2 days in advance. Sometimes it is just 1-3 hours but sometimes it is days. Not only is my weeks inventory different (not hugel so but different) between my rci weeks account and my rci points account, it is also different when looking through the wyndham portal into rci weeks.

Sometimes when I can see something in my weeks account but not my points, I can chat and get an agent to book it for me. I have had other times when they insisted that the inventory was not something I could book with my rci points account, and then the next morning it became available. The last time I had this issue was specifically with a Hilton bulk deposit.

 

[pedro47]

IMHO, there is a huge disconnect between the sale staff and what weeks/units size are available at every resort. IMHO