Did my first ever TS presentation last week. Sooo many questions unanswered.

[NightHawk]

First off, I did not buy. $140k for 23k points, LOL. Talk about sticker shock. Went to the Elara. Main guy Marcel was super cool but then Gigi came in when my wife and I said we would need to analyze any big purchase like this and Gigi went full anger mode on us, LOL. Ruined the whole TS meeting.

My main questions at the moment are these:
1. Once you buy into the program (let's say 10k pts yearly), how do you get more points? Does HGVC allow you to buy points, and if so, what is the cost? In theory there will be times someone needs points for a specific vacation so I'd like to understand how that happens and how much it costs. Do they offer deals?

2. Fees. Can you give me a general breakdown of what fees you incur during a typical year (outside of the deed and MF)? Let's say I booked 2 vacations that were 4-7 days each. What type of fees would I be paying assuming I'm just using HGVC (not RCI)? Are there different fees if you book at your "home" vs any other HGVC hotel?

3. Taxes. Does a TS have things that are reported on federal and state taxes? I asked Marcel but he didn't know and Gigi was only in aggressive mode and in no desire to take questions.

Appreciate any help you all can provide. Thanks

 

[brp]

Welcome, and good decision. Sorry about Gigi

1. I don't believe that you can buy "single use points" like one can with DVC. But you can borrow from the following year and/or use points saved from the prior year.

2. The main additional fee is the per-reservation booking fee. And then some places, like Hawai'i, have transient taxes for everyone.

3. Yes, there is property tax that can be reported if one itemizes. It ain't much.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@NightHawk Congratulations on finding TUG and saving $140k. Yikes! That's a lot of money. Don't worry about Gigi - sounds like anger issues which are his issues, not yours - who can expect anyone to spend 140k on the spot? cc @TUGBrian

Curious: Were you offered a deed which had 23k underlying points? if so what property? or was this pure 23k (trust) points?

Either way, if you are interested in HGVC (a great system ignore the sales peeps) you can get 23k points for less than $10,000 in the system all in. We can help you research a resale deed that fits your travel if you have cash upfront to spend. You will then have $130,000 to spend on travel or other family needs.

If you don't have $5k - $10k cash to spend upfront plus yearly maintenance fees of $1500, then do not buy a timeshare - rent from owners on TUG or Redweek or Koala. If you can afford it you can hack some incredible vacation values. You will pay more to rent but then you don't break the bank if you don't have discretionary funds to spend.

 

[TUGBrian]

holy smokes, that is a very expensive bullet!

 

[geist1223]

We are not HGVC Owners but many folks have suggested buying a 2 or 3 bedroom Platinum at Elara resell. The MF are determined by size of Unit not its rating. So while a 2 or 3 bedroom Platinum will cost a bit more up front the MF will be the same as a non Platinum and you get more Points to use elsewhere.

 

[mountainboy]

First off, I did not buy. $140k for 23k points, LOL. Talk about sticker shock. Went to the Elara. Main guy Marcel was super cool but then Gigi came in when my wife and I said we would need to analyze any big purchase like this and Gigi went full anger mode on us, LOL. Ruined the whole TS meeting.

My main questions at the moment are these:
1. Once you buy into the program (let's say 10k pts yearly), how do you get more points? Does HGVC allow you to buy points, and if so, what is the cost? In theory there will be times someone needs points for a specific vacation so I'd like to understand how that happens and how much it costs. Do they offer deals?

2. Fees. Can you give me a general breakdown of what fees you incur during a typical year (outside of the deed and MF)? Let's say I booked 2 vacations that were 4-7 days each. What type of fees would I be paying assuming I'm just using HGVC (not RCI)? Are there different fees if you book at your "home" vs any other HGVC hotel?

3. Taxes. Does a TS have things that are reported on federal and state taxes? I asked Marcel but he didn't know and Gigi was only in aggressive mode and in no desire to take questions.

Appreciate any help you all can provide. Thanks

I know someone who bought resale Elara, two, 11,200 pt deeds = 22,400 HGVC points, very similar to your post, for 100k Retail price in 2019 and sold it for less than 8k resale.

Looks like they have raised Retail prices to 140k for similar points.

@Sapper had posted re purchasing 29,440 HGVC points resale; not sure how much they paid for purchasing their deed but it's retail price was 122k, just 3 years ago in 2022...

Moral of story: Research more & buy Resale!

Welcome to TUG & Congratulations for saving 140k !!

 

[NightHawk]

So the first "deal" we were offered was 23040 points and Preferred+ at Grand Islander Oahu. Never mind that we never said we'd prefer Hawaii as our home resort. Then Gigi came in and offered 5500/yr for $21,980 and followed that up with 5500 every other year for $14,400 at unnamed resorts. When she threw in the "is it going to take food off of your table" question , that was when we just shut her off and she stormed away.

@NightHawk Congratulations on finding TUG and saving $140k. Yikes! That's a lot of money. Don't worry about Gigi - sounds like anger issues which are his issues, not yours - who can expect anyone to spend 140k on the spot? cc @TUGBrian

Curious: Were you offered a deed which had 23k underlying points? if so what property? or was this pure 23k (trust) points?

Either way, if you are interested in HGVC (a great system ignore the sales peeps) you can get 23k points for less than $10,000 in the system all in. We can help you research a resale deed that fits your travel if you have cash upfront to spend. You will then have $130,000 to spend on travel or other family needs.

If you don't have $5k - $10k cash to spend upfront plus yearly maintenance fees of $1500, then do not buy a timeshare - rent from owners on TUG or Redweek or Koala. If you can afford it you can hack some incredible vacation values. You will pay more to rent but then you don't break the bank if you don't have discretionary funds to spend.

 

[NightHawk]

holy smokes, that is a very expensive bullet!

LOL, especially when we had seen resale costs prior to going to the meeting and were expecting something maybe 2X-4X of what we saw resale going for. I thought $50k at the most for 20k points, so imagine our heads when we saw 3X that price. We told them the deed was 2X our monthly mortgage payment, LOL, and they replied "yeah but your mortgage is 30 years and this is only for 10." ROFL, it was so funny that I laughed at the stupidity of it all.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

So the first "deal" we were offered was 23040 points and Preferred+ at Grand Islander Oahu. Never mind that we never said we'd prefer Hawaii as our home resort. Then Gigi came in and offered 5500/yr for $21,980 and followed that up with 5500 every other year for $14,400 at unnamed resorts. When she threw in the "is it going to take food off of your table" question , that was when we just shut her off and she stormed away.

Great observation. Bad assumption on their part. Some of these sales offices can only sell their local resort. Knowledge is power.

If you are still interested in resale, you can rent for a while to get to know the different resorts and systems on TUG, Redweek or Koala.

Research here on TUG and in groups on Facebook if you are interested in buying. Here are some questions you can post answers to a new thread to get help from Tugger and/or if you want to explore all systems (Marriott, Hyatt, Wyndham, HGVC, independents) you can post it on the "New to Timesharing" Forum.

"What to Buy" Questions for New Timeshare Owners

Here are some questions you can answer to focus your timeshare wants/needs. Suggestion - copy the questions below, and start a new thread entitled "My Survey" or "What should I buy?," or something similar, and answer the questions in a NEW thread. 1) Is there a vacation destination you wish...

tugbbs.com

 

[Clever]

So the first "deal" we were offered was 23040 points and Preferred+ at Grand Islander Oahu. Never mind that we never said we'd prefer Hawaii as our home resort. Then Gigi came in and offered 5500/yr for $21,980 and followed that up with 5500 every other year for $14,400 at unnamed resorts. When she threw in the "is it going to take food off of your table" question , that was when we just shut her off and she stormed away.

On the plus side. I brought the Hilton Residence in NYC for 106k. We get 720 pts/year. We frequently save some and use the next year. Together that makes over 1 mil which we then use in Europe for a month at high end Hilton Hotels for very little cost. That includes free breakfast and happy hour dinner food. Yes every year the yearly fee goes up which is a pain. Of, course I wish I had known about TUG prior I might have been able to buy it on the resale market for far less.

 

[elaine]

So, read up on this forum and then decide (assuming you're looking at resale):
1. buy most cost effective (#points/annual fees) HGVC points and review exchanging in HGVC--usually 9 months out, but some are 6 months (or less)-where points are points and it doesn't matter where you own;
2. buy where it's fairly cost effective and you want a home resort (usually booking at 1 year out) to have a "jump" of 3+ months before all HGVC can book, esp. if you'd tend to go to home resort at least 1/3 years; or
3. buy where home resort is "very important" and you're willing to pay more in annual fees (and or capital outlay), as it is in a hard to book place. This was us--we have (resale) Eagles Nest at Marco Island and stay there 2/3 years.

We find the HGVC system very easy to use and have been very happy. Lastly, there are MAX and trust points resorts--I'd stick with legacy HGVC resorts. I see no benefit (for my vacation needs) for either of those--lots of pros/cons posts.

 

[TolmiePeak]

Welcome, and good decision. Sorry about Gigi

1. I don't believe that you can buy "single use points" like one can with DVC. But you can borrow from the following year and/or use points saved from the prior year.

2. The main additional fee is the per-reservation booking fee. And then some places, like Hawai'i, have transient taxes for everyone.

3. Yes, there is property tax that can be reported if one itemizes. It ain't much.

Cheers.

Agreed. We bought a 11,200 1 bedroom Elara contract. I've been happy with the program so far. We've stayed at Boulevard (Las Vegas), Miracle Mile (Chicago), and W 57th St. (NYC). Yes we pay the booking fee and W 57th St. had some BS short stay fee as well. Still we have gotten excellent value out of the program so far and it has been easy to book rooms midweek. I might go to Kona in a couple of weeks and there is plenty of availability.

 

[mountainboy]

On the plus side. I brought the Hilton Residence in NYC for 106k. We get 720 pts/year. We frequently save some and use the next year. Together that makes over 1 mil which we then use in Europe for a month at high end Hilton Hotels for very little cost. That includes free breakfast and happy hour dinner food. Yes every year the yearly fee goes up which is a pain. Of, course I wish I had known about TUG prior I might have been able to buy it on the resale market for far less.

? 11,520 pts/yr; looks like typo...

Many have bought them for $$ Retail in the past like yourself @Clever . Resale is fairly inexpensive, esp for NYC properties, as MFs are fairly high, as anticipated for Manhattan, for properties on Billionaires' row etc

For those who visit Manhattan regularly, folks may get a resale NYC deed very inexpensively (some being given away almost free), to get bHC AI dues and also OS access (& ability to use owners lounge on RCI stays etc. (I personally do not go to NYC often, so not relevant for me, but for many, it is an excellent draw). Many HGVC experts own Manhattan deeds & can chime in more, if folks have any Qs re them.
TY!

 

[brp]

For those who visit Manhattan regularly, folks may get a resale NYC deed very inexpensively (some being given away almost free), to get bHC AI dues and also OS access (& ability to use owners lounge on RCI stays etc. (I personally do not go to NYC often, so not relevant for me, but for many, it is an excellent draw). Many HGVC experts own Manhattan deeds & can chime in more, if folks have any Qs re them.
TY!

Spot on. As one of the Manhattan owners (although hardly an expert ), we use it (w. 57th_ for staying in NYC. In fact, we're headed there later today. We go a couple of times a year, so it's worth it. We bought resale, but it was more than 15 years back, when W. 57th and HCNY were the only game in town, so paid quite a bit more than current resale prices. And we still think it's worth it. And the All Inclusive option is fabulous.

Cheers.

 

[Clever]

? 11,520 pts/yr; looks like typo...

Many have bought them for $$ Retail in the past like yourself @Clever . Resale is fairly inexpensive, esp for NYC properties, as MFs are fairly high, as anticipated for Manhattan, for properties on Billionaires' row etc

For those who visit Manhattan regularly, folks may get a resale NYC deed very inexpensively (some being given away almost free), to get bHC AI dues and also OS access (& ability to use owners lounge on RCI stays etc. (I personally do not go to NYC often, so not relevant for me, but for many, it is an excellent draw). Many HGVC experts own Manhattan deeds & can chime in more, if folks have any Qs re them.
TY!


View attachment 108071

We used to go NYC for business/ pleasure and my wife loved 57 west. They knew us by name and the kids loved going there. We don't go as often and prefer traveling now.

 

[Rockinit]

Congratulations on following your instinct and walking away, then asking questions. You will love the program once you decide it's right or not, and buy resale We paid $675 for 8400 platinum W 57th St club and live nearby most of the year, making it convenient and obviously, cost effective. The breakfast and happy hours are all we need if we didn't choose to eat out.
One thing I noticed, we also own 11,200 platinum points in Scotland, is my two deeds open up different offers within the HGVC platform. For example, I just booked the Sedona Summit at a 65% discount using my NYC points, which have a higher MF and are therefore generally regarded as best used at the NYC club. However, I used about 700 points for a 4 night stay plus a $50 dining credit thrown in. That offer was not present using my Scotland points. So, I took the bait and we're going in May. Ironically, I redeemed some Chase Ultimate Rewards for one night prior to this stay at the same resort, for basically nothing. And I redeemed my free HH night at a nearby resort instead of the $600 nightly rate. It pays to do a little HW but not get buried in the weeds.

 

[TolmiePeak]

We used to go NYC for business/ pleasure and my wife loved 57 west. They knew us by name and the kids loved going there. We don't go as often and prefer traveling now.

Agreed. We just stayed there for 3 nights and already hit it off with Julius. He is great.

 

[Hobokie]

First of all congrats on dodging that bullet! Next up you have to do research (and I mean RESEARCH) to make sure if this (HGVC) is even a good idea for you and your family. I own a small HGVC contract that I specifically bought to have access to the Elara with OS (open season) which btw ends up being more cost effective than using points in many instances…. But anywho… I also own a small WM contract (I personally prefer my WM timeshare 10x over HGVC btw, for MY family needs).

I spent about a year researching (mostly on TUG) before I pulled the trigger and got my HGVC and WM. I made the right decision for my fam, but I can’t image having been able to arrive here without MANY months of research.

There are lots of ways to get to an answer and proper evaluation, but you should probably start with the newbie survey:

New to Timesharing? Start Here!

This is the forum where anyone can go for help with Timeshares and Timesharing. Absolutely nothing is a "stupid question" when it comes to Timeshares ask away!

tugbbs.com

 

[NightHawk]

First of all congrats on dodging that bullet! Next up you have to do research (and I mean RESEARCH) to make sure if this (HGVC) is even a good idea for you and your family. I own a small HGVC contract that I specifically bought to have access to the Elara with OS (open season) which btw ends up being more cost effective than using points in many instances…. But anywho… I also own a small WM contract (I personally prefer my WM timeshare 10x over HGVC btw, for MY family needs).

I spent about a year researching (mostly on TUG) before I pulled the trigger and got my HGVC and WM. I made the right decision for my fam, but I can’t image having been able to arrive here without MANY months of research.

There are lots of ways to get to an answer and proper evaluation, but you should probably start with the newbie survey:

New to Timesharing? Start Here!

This is the forum where anyone can go for help with Timeshares and Timesharing. Absolutely nothing is a "stupid question" when it comes to Timeshares ask away!

tugbbs.com

Yeah it wasn't something we were actively looking into. I got the call last year from Hilton to do the SP and did minimal info check, but the one thing I did know was that resale is way cheaper. I'm doing more research now that I attended a presentation and know some of the info from there as I figure out more now that I'm back home.

From what I gather, the only way to get more points once you have a TS is when they offer some upgrade package, but mainly it sounds like people buy the VIP package of 11k points for $1600 or something around that figure. We don't want to buy anytime soon, but if we have a much better understanding of how it all works once your in the club, it makes any decision easier.

 

[NightHawk]

Congratulations on following your instinct and walking away, then asking questions. You will love the program once you decide it's right or not, and buy resale We paid $675 for 8400 platinum W 57th St club and live nearby most of the year, making it convenient and obviously, cost effective. The breakfast and happy hours are all we need if we didn't choose to eat out.
One thing I noticed, we also own 11,200 platinum points in Scotland, is my two deeds open up different offers within the HGVC platform. For example, I just booked the Sedona Summit at a 65% discount using my NYC points, which have a higher MF and are therefore generally regarded as best used at the NYC club. However, I used about 700 points for a 4 night stay plus a $50 dining credit thrown in. That offer was not present using my Scotland points. So, I took the bait and we're going in May. Ironically, I redeemed some Chase Ultimate Rewards for one night prior to this stay at the same resort, for basically nothing. And I redeemed my free HH night at a nearby resort instead of the $600 nightly rate. It pays to do a little HW but not get buried in the weeds.

Quick questions - You mentioned booking with NYC pts vs Scotland, so when you are booking it specifically shows which points you are pulling from? Does it default to one set of points when you start searching?

 

[ljmiii]

Quick questions - You mentioned booking with NYC pts vs Scotland, so when you are booking it specifically shows which points you are pulling from? Does it default to one set of points when you start searching?

HGVC currently keeps track of owners points in two buckets - HGVC Points and bHC points (plus a third bucket if you own at Hilton Club New York). NYC points aside from HCNY are all bHC.

Unfortunately, unlike some other timeshare systems HGV doesn't allow you to pick which points to use. Instead, when you book a reservation it defaults to use saved HGVC then saved bHC, then current year HGVC then current year bHC, then borrowed HGVC then borrowed bHC.

Note that this means current year bHC points are used before borrowed HGVC points...which is often not what owners want. So they make a phony reservation using current year bHC points, make the reservation they want using borrowed HGVC points, and then cancel the phony bHC reservation.

 

[dougp26364]

I’m afraid when they said $140,000, I’d have spit my coffee all over the salesman before beginning to laugh hysterically. One more reason I shouldn’t attend a sales presentation.

It seems from reading you understand resale vs retail. Glad you found TUG and that you understood resale vs retail before hitting the sales floor.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

only way to get more points ... buy the VIP package of 11k points for $1600 or something

I don't go to presentations, so I don't know, and most of the reports of offerings by newbies are crazily vague, BUT
those are 1-time use Bonus Pts, right? Have to be at $0.15/pt, so according to many around here, BPs cannot be combined with regular Pts. So, you get "more" Pts but you have to use them all by themselves for a booking(s) and you most likely end up with breakage, some not used /wasted.

 

[mountainboy]

First of all congrats on dodging that bullet! Next up you have to do research (and I mean RESEARCH) to make sure if this (HGVC) is even a good idea for you and your family. I own a small HGVC contract that I specifically bought to have access to the Elara with OS (open season) which btw ends up being more cost effective than using points in many instances…. But anywho… I also own a small WM contract (I personally prefer my WM timeshare 10x over HGVC btw, for MY family needs).

I spent about a year researching (mostly on TUG) before I pulled the trigger and got my HGVC and WM. I made the right decision for my fam, but I can’t image having been able to arrive here without MANY months of research.

There are lots of ways to get to an answer and proper evaluation, but you should probably start with the newbie survey:

New to Timesharing? Start Here!

This is the forum where anyone can go for help with Timeshares and Timesharing. Absolutely nothing is a "stupid question" when it comes to Timeshares ask away!

tugbbs.com

Realize everyone's use case is different, but curious re WM 10x better than HGVC...

If one is into NPs, esp in Western US, WMs locations are awesome & can't be beat but their current mgmt aka master WynDumb CS is awful & website is a joke, many have complained of them canceling folks reservations a week before arrival ('oopsies')... They are currently taking 7-8 months doing resale transfers of a simple vacation club membership, no deed; something which should take 5 minutes :-( while HGV deed transfers/points take only weeks...

? Do you use it as a Trader into II

Realize WM MF increases capped at 5% (although they came up with special assessments, $ for WiFi; increases in IS/MM (= HGVC OS) $ recently etc; + no reservation fee or HK fee for weekly stays (or IS/MM= OS stays)..

Would love to hear your thoughts!

And hope you snagged that free 65k WM credits contract from TSN!

TY!

 

[dougp26364]

Realize everyone's use case is different, but curious re WM 10x better than HGVC...

If one is into NPs, esp in Western US, WMs locations are awesome & can't be beat but their current mgmt aka master WynDumb CS is awful & website is a joke, many have complained of them canceling folks reservations a week before arrival ('oopsies')... They are currently taking 7-8 months doing resale transfers of a simple vacation club membership, no deed; something which should take 5 minutes :-( while HGV deed transfers/points take only weeks...

? Do you use it as a Trader into II

Realize WM MF increases capped at 5% (although they came up with special assessments, $ for WiFi; increases in IS/MM (= HGVC OS) $ recently etc; + no reservation fee or HK fee for weekly stays (or IS/MM= OS stays)..

Would love to hear your thoughts!

And hope you snagged that free 65k WM credits contract from TSN!

TY!

Over the years I’ve come to understand that, with timeshare, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What works for one might well be trash to another. We own across 4 different management companies. Each fills a particular “niche” with Marriott being the major ownership. There are times I wish I owned a small amount of a few other companies, just for access to particular locations. But we can only travel so much so we choose what fills the majority of our needs and contemplate trades into the rest.