DeSantis wants to eliminate Florida property taxes. How might that impact Florida TS owners?

[andre10056]

Apparently, based upon multiple online articles that I've read, Florida Governor DeSantis wants to eliminate Florida property taxes and a Florida constitutional amendment will soon be introduced in the Florida legislature to bring that about.

Gov. DeSantis voices support for eliminating property taxes in Florida

Gov. Ron DeSantis has voiced support for reducing or ditching property taxes altogether.

www.news4jax.com

But municipalities need revenues to pay for police, fire, schools, garbage collection, municipal parks and rec centers, etc., etc. Already, Florida has no state income taxes and I can't imagine such income taxes would be popular with Florida residents.

So what remaining alternatives might there be? Huge increase in sales taxes? Maybe...but I can't see "huge" being too popular with local residents, either. But how 'bout huge increases in tourist lodging taxes in some way?

We all know that DeSantis doesn't like Disney so they might not end up too happy to whatever changes he may have in mind.

I'm just wondering what the possible implications may be for timeshare owners. Perhaps Hawaii timeshare owners might chime in with whatever taxes they pay for daily lodging.

 

[Luanne]

Perhaps Hawaii timeshare owners might chime in with whatever taxes they pay for daily lodging.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. We do pay property tax on our Maui timeshare. But it's rolled into the maintenance fees. We don't get a separate tax bill.

There is a current thread going on about the TAT in Hawaii. What owners (or guests) pay when they stay at a timeshare is a rate that is based on a percentage of the maintenance fees.

Does that answer you question?

 

[TUGBrian]

doubt a full elimination of property tax would ever work itself out (at least not for everyone, but many states eliminate it completely for owners of a certain age), but an increase in the homestead exemption would be a welcome change.

tough sledding for sure as mentioned property taxes are locally applied thus each municipality would have to decide for themselves how to make up for the loss in tax revenue!

 

[andre10056]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. We do pay property tax on our Maui timeshare. But it's rolled into the maintenance fees. We don't get a separate tax bill.

There is a current thread going on about the TAT in Hawaii. What owners (or guests) pay when they stay at a timeshare is a rate that is based on a percentage of the maintenance fees.

Does that answer you question?

Interesting. So a separate tax or TAT (whatever that stands for) which is computed by a percentage of the annual maintenance fee. Is the TAT 10%, 20%, or what? Has the percentage gone up from one year to the next (obviously, the underlying maintenance fees have)?

 

[chapjim]

Hard to see where the revenue for municipalities would come from.

I'd be happy to see a reduction in Fairfax County's property taxes. I'm paying the county $750/month to live in my own house. I'm sure a lot of homeowners pay a lot more than that.

 

[Luanne]

Interesting. So a separate tax or TAT (whatever that stands for) which is computed by a percentage of the annual maintenance fee. Is the TAT 10%, 20%, or what? Has the percentage gone up from one year to the next (obviously, the underlying maintenance fees have)?

TAT is Transient Accommodations Tax. As fat as I know no one has found out the actual percentage and it appears to vary according to location. I know for the timeshare resort where we own (Maui Hill) they publish that TAT rates. They are called Timeshare Occupancy Tax. I think they are the same thing.


1 Bedroom: $13.58 per day or $95.06 per week
2 Bedroom: $14.84 per day or $103.88 per week
3 Bedroom: $15.34 per day or $107.38 per week

They also publish the property tax amounts.

Real Property taxes paid for calendar year 2024​

---

1 bedroom $246.03
2 bedrooms $266.53
3 bedrooms $335.50

 

[dioxide45]

Interesting. So a separate tax or TAT (whatever that stands for) which is computed by a percentage of the annual maintenance fee. Is the TAT 10%, 20%, or what? Has the percentage gone up from one year to the next (obviously, the underlying maintenance fees have)?

It is Transient Accommodations Tax in Hawaii. It is charged as a percentage of the room rate. Since timeshares don't have room rates, they calculate what is called TSO or Timeshare Occupancy. It is (I believe) 10.25% of 50% of the maintenance fee for the unit. So if the maintenance fees are $2000, then it is $102.50 for the week but charged as a nightly tax of $14.64. Timeshare guests staying on a timeshare stay pay this TSO. Those who booked cash rates direct through the hotel or other travel agent pay TAT and not TSO. The hangup is if an owner is renting out their timeshare they are supposed to register and collect and remit both GET and TSO but then the property also charges TSO on the per night basis

 

[dioxide45]

TAT is Transient Accommodations Tax. As fat as I know no one has found out the actual percentage and it appears to vary according to location. I know for the timeshare resort where we own (Maui Hill) they publish that TAT rates. They are called Timeshare Occupancy Tax. I think they are the same thing.


1 Bedroom: $13.58 per day or $95.06 per week
2 Bedroom: $14.84 per day or $103.88 per week
3 Bedroom: $15.34 per day or $107.38 per week

They also publish the property tax amounts.

Real Property taxes paid for calendar year 2024​

---

1 bedroom $246.03
2 bedrooms $266.53
3 bedrooms $335.50

Yes, TAT and TSO are for the same purpose. They came up with TSO because there is no nightly rate that can be used to calculate TAT. Hawaii's view on this is that hotel resorts pay property taxes based on the value of the property and then hotel guests also pay a GET/TAT on the nightly room rate. Timeshare guests were getting off cheap by only having to pay property taxes in their maintenance fees. So they also collect TSO.

 

[pedro47]

What is the governor going to replace collecting property tax with?

 

[TUGBrian]

per the article "...to replace property tax revenues through budget reductions, sales-based consumption taxes and locally determined consumption taxes authorized by the Legislature"

 

[dioxide45]

Florida already has a fairly high sales tax. Though not the highest and there are a lot of products that don't get charged sales tax. More than just the usual groceries and essentials. I noticed that anything HSA/FSA related medical doesn't have any sales tax. I don't know what other states don't charge sales tax on medical products like over-the-counter medicines, contacts, glasses and such, but no sales tax on that stuff is nice.

 

[pedro47]

How much does property taxes brings, into the Florida budget???. Now in other words the citizens of Florida and visitors to state will make up the money that was collected from property taxes. LOL

 

[jp10558]

I have doubts it could ever actually work. I feel like there's a laffer curve (I think that's what it's called) where if you're paying 200% sales tax to try and "make up" for income and property taxes, most middle class people are going to say - well, I guess I'm going to another location cause I can't afford 3x the normal cost of gas, food, whatever. And my gut says you'd need something absurd like that to make up for not having income tax already and dropping property tax. For residents I also doubt whether the savings in property tax would make up for substantially higher sales taxes.

There's also the case that sales taxes, like tariffs, seem to me like they will slow the economy. Property taxes you pay unless you sell the property. Sales taxes disincentivise you to make any purchase you can put off, either to go buy elsewhere to skirt the tax (think the early days of Internet ordering or crossing state lines) or just all together. If your $50 dinner out is now $150 due to tax, most people will go out *less* than 1/3 as often. Because it's not just about affordability, it's about perceived value for money.

I suppose the other alternative is just shutting down local and state governments to deal with drastically lower budgets.

As a TS owner, I am glad I'm in HGVC so there's not really much incentive to absolutely have to go to FL to use my timeshare. If property taxes go away, I would bet my MFs would go down. Actually, probably not increase as fast, though it's also possible that as high as I think the property taxes are, the sales taxes for things the TS NEED to buy would overwhelm that - and there's always the possibility of just blaming taxes to take in profits by HGVC / HOA I suppose. But it seems to me the TS would be one of the things that do well because the property is valued so highly. And even if they come up with a TAT or whatever, if I'm not going to FL cause it's too expensive with sales tax for a visitor, I'm not paying that TAT either cause I'm not actually occupying the property.

 

[Rolltydr]

Exactly! Florida already doesn’t have a state income tax. Now, they may not have a property tax. The state and locsl governments still must provide services. The money has to come from somewhere. If not property or income taxes, sales tax and/or TaT or some other tax has to be increased. Cutting services that people are used to and depend on is, typically, not a popular thing to do and probably wouldn’t cut a significant amount of the budget.

 

[andre10056]

per the article "...to replace property tax revenues through budget reductions, sales-based consumption taxes and locally determined consumption taxes authorized by the Legislature"

I suspect that the highest "sales-based consumption taxes" will be sales made to non-residents of Florida, namely tourists.

Lodging taxes, in whatever form, TIT, TAT, TSO, hotel lodging taxes, whatever, will likely be sky high.

Then, as I speculate further, airline taxes, rent-a-car taxes, anything related to out-of-towners, sky high.

Perhaps they'll identify tourist-oriented business establishments and might expect those TOBEs to also charge their visitors the highest level of taxes. If you want to visit Duval Street in Key West for Happy Hour, prepare to pay up, baby! DVC resort restaurants, Disney admission, Disney anything, cha ching!

Trying to make up for an entire state's worth of property taxes is going to mean huge increases elsewhere and I don't think it's going to be 100% raised (or even small percentage raised) from Florida residents.

 

[dioxide45]

I suspect that the highest "sales-based consumption taxes" will be sales made to non-residents of Florida, namely tourists.

Lodging taxes, in whatever form, TIT, TAT, TSO, hotel lodging taxes, whatever, will likely be sky high.

Then, as I speculate further, airline taxes, rent-a-car taxes, anything related to out-of-towners, sky high.

Perhaps they'll identify tourist-oriented business establishments and might expect those TOBEs to also charge their visitors the highest level of taxes. If you want to visit Duval Street in Key West for Happy Hour, prepare to pay up, baby! DVC resort restaurants, Disney admission, Disney anything, cha ching!

Trying to make up for an entire state's worth of property taxes is going to mean huge increases elsewhere and I don't think it's going to be 100% raised (or even small percentage raised) from Florida residents.

The problem is that tourism only makes up about 10% of Florida's economy. So they couldn't tax that enough to make up for it. It would also cause a lot of imbalance where localities with high tourism would bring in lots of local tax dollars and those areas with little tourism wouldn't bring in much.

 

[Rolltydr]

Trying to make up for an entire state's worth of property taxes is going to mean huge increases elsewhere and I don't think it's going to be 100% raised (or even small percentage raised) from Florida residents.

Until it affects tourism and the money has to come from somewhere else. But, by then, the current gov will be gone and it’ll be someone else’s problem, right?

 

[andre10056]

The problem is that tourism only makes up about 10% of Florida's economy. So they couldn't tax that enough to make up for it. It would also cause a lot of imbalance where localities with high tourism would bring in lots of local tax dollars and those areas with little tourism wouldn't bring in much.

Property taxes are indeed local (in terms of contribution to each city's municipal services). But, if you get rid of local property taxes, you might replace that with a system where tourism tax revenues flow to the state which, in turn, doles them out to local municipalities so there wouldn't be an imbalance.

But, yes, the sheer volume of property tax dollars would be hard to replace with some other system in a state that generates zero income tax, and will likely continue to have no income tax.

Another thought: the main argument you hear from people who object to having to pay property taxes is that they have to pay a huge amount for schools, even though they have no kids. How 'bout charge parents beaucoup bucks for each kid they have in municipal schools? That'll go over well, I'm sure.

We've (the whole country has) got a rock bottom birth rate now. That latter policy will likely reduce that birth rate even further. So maybe Florida could then go back to single room schools where kids from K-12 share that single school room, just like in the old days. Just think of the cost savings!

 

[TUGBrian]

and thus the problem with all political related topics....

ask 100 people how something should work/change/etc get 100 different answers.

 

[jp10558]

and thus the problem with all political related topics....

ask 100 people how something should work/change/etc get 100 different answers.

I don't think we're giving answers, just pointing out what seem like glaring issues with the idea. As a middling to do person, if I was a resident I - probably like anyone - would love less taxes. IDK what services I'd be willing to set cut in FL cause I have no great idea what the services would be. As an out of state tourist - FL is competing with costs to go other places which was my only other point. Orlando / Disney in general is already so expensive, it makes flights to Europe or the Caribbean competitive with the lower prices for a lot of stuff you can do there. If the rest of FL gets that expensive with sales taxes that can really drive off tourists.

 

[andre10056]

When I think about Florida, I think about current administration proposals to eliminate FEMA and have each individual state pay for their own natural disasters. If I were psychotically selfish, sounds good to me because then all 50 states wouldn't have to subsidize states like Florida but Florida would have to pay for Florida.

Add to that the fact that insurers are leaving that state in droves, such that the state has to step in as the insuror of last resort.

Florida is now facing so many challenges that you would think DeSantis might want to increase property taxes. Instead, he wants to eliminate them.

I suspect, as Florida timeshare owners, we will see both higher maintenance fees (by whatever name) and a longer recovery time for any resort damaged by hurricane, flood, etc.

 

[GT75]

Eliminating property taxes for TS or changing it to a percentage of MF, would make my job of tracking HGVC FL MFs much easier.