Depressing Issue of Timesharing Today

[timeos2]

I just got my newest copy of Timesharing Today. I always look forward to them and read them front to back except the for sale ads. This issue is about as negative toward exchange/trade as I have ever read. It leads with a story about points which doesn't cover some of the bigger names such as Hilton, Sunterra or Wyndham - some because they didn't reply to inquiries and some because they didn't ask them I guess.

That article alone is depressing. It covers how unnecessarily convoluted the systems are, how there are no published prices and how resale can be discouraged. And they really don't get into it much.

Complaints about II blocking access to regions, RCI fees. It goes on.
Then there are the letters to the editor and the articles on exchanging. The bottom line is a lot of griping about no availability, rentals undermining exchanges, travel agents that can rent to non-owners cheaper than annual fees, etc, etc. Somewhere it even says that the only way to enjoy timesharing is to own where you want to go.

Now that last statement I happen to be in full agreement with as I feel the years of buy to trade have led us to the situation where owners don't care about the resorts as they "only trade it" anyway and thus are willing to walk away from fees or practically give it away depressing resale values. But it is important to have a chance to exchange now and then as no one wants to go to the same place every single year forever. The exchange systems do seem to be falling apart. Weeks more than points but points seems to be trying to kill the goose by hiking costs, creating resale blocks and other customer unfriendly actions.

Anyway if I were a non-timeshare owner or if I had built my portfolio around trading I would finish my read of this issue in a really down mood. I can't ever recall feeling so negative about timesharing after reading that magazine even in the heydays of the Trust schemes and the upfront fees. It really makes me wonder if there is a future for exchange of any type going forward or if we just need to buy where we want to go over and over and strictly rent anything else. Anyone else find it so unnerving?

 

[lawren2]

John,

As usual a well thought out post from you.

It is demoralising to hear that the entire issue was devoted to the collapse of timeshare as we know it. It comes as no surprise to me. My thoughts were leaning towards a post questioning wether the internet has been to the benefit or the detriment of timeshare value and the exchanging of them.

Certainly it has made finding attractive purchases simpler. Rentals are out there by the thousands. Perhaps the open market will indeed bring a balance with the continuing evolution of timeshare. Because there are so many ways to sample, it has probably driven down the costs to the point that people can and do sell them for pennies.

Certainly the more savvy have focused more on the smaller in-house systems that serve their purposes best ie. Worldmark System for the westcoast. The smaller independents are another option for some. I am watching closely the evolution of the VRI-ORE consolidation and hope I can use that in the future.

We have seen timeshare evolve over the last 10 years and it will continue to do so.

 

[regatta333]

The verdict is still out for me. We're going to give timeshare ownership a few more years before deciding whether or not to bail. Overall, we've been mostly satisified with our vacations to date, but it is WORK! I spend a few minutes every morning doing my RCI searches, need to plan 2 years in advance for harder trades (and even then they sometimes don't work out), and have had to compromise on our choice of destinations on a number of vacations.

On the plus side, we are vacationing more than we would if we didn't have the timeshare. As Wyndham points owners, we plan to make more reservations directly through Wyndham, as exchanging has gotten much more difficult. The RCI fees have gotten excessive in my opinion (especially for the service level) and many resorts that I was regularly able to pull in just the last few years are now impossible to get, except through Extra Vacations.
I used to be able to select a week to deposit from my home resort during the ARP period, but they have taken away that ability. The online deposits Wyndham assigns are frequently last-minute deposits to RCI that are worthless in terms of trading power (I was burned by this on a number of occasions). I've pretty much come to the conclusion that to get the harder trades through RCI weeks, you must make an appropriate deposit at the 2-year mark. I will be using RCI a lot less than I have in the past.

The unfortunate reality is that once you've bought in, they have a captive audience, with little to no motivation to improve service and all the motivation in the world to maximize profits.

Other vendors in the travel industry, who still have to work to get your money, can provide 24/7 access to their websites. After YEARS of being redesigned, we are still stuck with an antiquated system that has abysmal search capability, is only available during call center business hours, and even then is down about 50% of the time I try to log in. Wait times for the call center have really gotten bad in the past year, and of the transactions I've made in the past year, at least half were not done correctly and required a significant amount of time to get corrected.

The only reason we are sticking with it for now is that I'm willing to invest the time. Neither my husband, nor my three adult children, would ever put up with it, but as long as I'm successful in being able to rent a few prime summer weeks to offset or partially offset our maintenance fees, I'll hang in there.

 

[Timeshare Von]

I remember once being told years ago, buy only where you know you would like to go if that was your only option left (without exchanging). I can say that while vacationing every March in Flagstaff and every May in Williamsburg may become a bit boring, I would sure look forward to my floating week in Waikiki every year

I agree that the TS industry is changing again. I think there is some real paradigm shift on the horizon, much like what the industry saw with the advent of point systems. For those of you in with companies with large enough portfolios for internal exchanges, I think you will be in the best shape. Those who one at smaller independent resorts may find that if the exchange system through RCI, II or whatever network you use, collapses . . . you may be stuck with what you own as your only vacation option.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next year to 18 months.

Yvonne

 

[bnoble]

This is interesting. I'm new to all of this, but my uncle has owned a couple of OLCC weeks forever that he uses each year, and a few SA weeks from the early days of the "SA craze" that he uses for exchange.

I've been learning for about the past year, and seriously shopped for a few months before purchasing. When we made our recent purchase (a modest Wyn/FF points deed resale), we also looked at a few single-resort fixed and floating weeks. In all cases, we were primarily looking to buy something we expected to use annually for at least the next 10 years, and maybe longer. I never seriously considered buying a "pure trader", and that's in spite of the fact that the location we plan to visit annually is Orlando.

Our plan now is to primarily reserve within the Wyn/FF system, though I'll probably make use of the "search first" capability that I have with RCI to grab the infrequent bulk banked unit.

This decision was in part because I just didn't feel as though I had enough information to buy a pure trader and get a good value, whereas I knew at least *something* about the Orlando market, both timeshare and rental. But, I suppose the negative attitude towards RCI and (to a lesser extent) all of the exchange companies probably influenced my thinking.

 

[JudyH]

Over the past years I have spoke to many non-TUG, and non-timeshare-savvy folks, who use their week (usually 1 week) every year, rarely exchange, and if they do, never seem to complain about the exchange process. I am thinking that your average every day TS owner probably doesn't care about the issues we raise here, or in TSToday. They all seem to be very happy with their purchase, going back week after week to the same place, and don't even want info about TUG when I offer it.

We may be too educated for our own good.

 

[wbtimesharer]

Timsharing before and after

From my personal experience, I think timesharing opens you up to endless possibilities for vacation. Prior to 3.5 years ago, my family mainly took 1 vacation a year spending approximately $500 for a week in a hotel room or less mainly in Door County, WI.

After purchasing our first timeshare in Door County from the developer, we have been averaging 3 weeks a year. We have been to Cancun, Florida, back to Door County, the Dells, and Northern Wisconsin. Our costs have averaged around $300 for a week in 2 bedroom units and have gotten a little back in renting weeks that we didn't use.

We have 5 ownerships including RCI points. We have done exchanges on both RCI and II and even 1 direct trade with another Tugger. There has even been some spillover into our direct family sending them on vacation.

Until RCI and II get consumed by greed and fee themselves out of business, I think timesharing has many many benefits. But the mantra of buying resale and low where possible, watch the Maintenance Fees, and even buy where you want to go, is the key to successful and fun timesharing.


Bill

 

[maiwah]

I bought a few weeks just for trade. I am finding trading within RCI system become more frustrating. With the increase in RCI exchange fee, PFD fee and the increase in TS annual maintenance fee, I feel that my weeks are quickly diminishing their value, since the sum of fee, is adding up closely matching, if not more expensive, than the rental fee posted by private parties.

I still feel good with my weeks which are II affiliate.

 

[talkamotta]

Everything changes. Its a constant of life.

If over the past 10 years I could say my needs are the same regarding timeshareing and vacationing, only then could I have a valid basis for comparing the value of timeshareing. Will the next 10 years change, retirement, of course.

I found TUG, and after 6 months of reading TUG, I thought I had a handle on timesharing but then points moved up the scale and more in house trading timeshare systems, etc. Increase knowledge = more pondering thoughts = more questions =

When I bought my 2nd timeshare on ebay I thought I was getting such a good deal that I bought 3 more. (I invested such a minimal amount of money, I have saved much more than my initial investment). Now I have 4 traders, at one time they were great traders, now not so great. So I give it more time and plan farther in advance. I go up and down, sometimes I get frustrated with trading, timeshares that are being rented for less than mf's, mf's that are increasing a little too fast and increase trading fees. In my mind it comes down to "If I have a week that I traded for and wanted, would I be able to get that exact week and comparable size and amenities for less than what I paid?" The answer 9 out of 10 times is "no".

Another thing, that has been mentioned before, is would I take the time? I didnt vacation like I do now, before timeshareing.

As our needs change, we need to re-evaluate our timeshare portfollio just as we do every other aspect of our life.

Thats why we try to stay educated. To make good personal choices.

 

[rkd]

Amen talkamota! I am reading TUG every day to try and "stay educated and make good personal choices " regarding timeshare.

The members of TUG are such sophisticated timeshare owners I am shocked at how much I don't know even after owning timeshare over 25 yrs.

Something we have done right (purely by accident) is to make our plans alone. By that I mean my husband and I decide on our vacation...make it according to our schedule and desires. Then, if we decide and we have an extra bedroom, we may invite others to join.

I have seen our friends try and cordinate family/friends schedule and put their plans "on hold" while they wait for others to get plans in place. Such frustration they have.

Just what has worked for us....

Regina

 

[Carolinian]

On the OBX, exchangers are in the minority - 30% or less - of timeshare owners. They are a big enough minority that if they bail in a short period, it will be a major financial problem for resorts, and resorts need to carefully watch market manipulation by major exchange companies that impact exchangers. Those who own to use do, indeed, seem to still be happy with timesharing.

Resorts are already seeing some bailout from RCI's rental programs, preference for points, and resulting changes in exchange availibility. Someone long active in the local resale market commented that for years it was rare to hear a seller cite dissatisfaction with RCI as the reason for putting their week up for sale, but more recently it had become very common for sellers to volunteer that this was their reason for selling. Not everyone is as educated as we are as to the cause of the problem, but a growing number are becoming aware that there is a problem. The less informed are likely to blame Points more than rentals, simply because the advent of Points seemed to coincide with the problem and many are not yet aware of the rentals. Both factors contribute to the problem, but as this juncture, IMHO exchange company rentals is probably the bigger problem. Hopefully the class action lawsuit will bring this fraud on the exchange system to a screaching halt.

Over the past years I have spoke to many non-TUG, and non-timeshare-savvy folks, who use their week (usually 1 week) every year, rarely exchange, and if they do, never seem to complain about the exchange process. I am thinking that your average every day TS owner probably doesn't care about the issues we raise here, or in TSToday. They all seem to be very happy with their purchase, going back week after week to the same place, and don't even want info about TUG when I offer it.

We may be too educated for our own good.

 

[Mimi]

Another vote to buy where you want to go

With increased trading fees, the reduced services offered by RCI and the loss in value of the dollar/rand, we sold all 4 SA timeshares that were bought to trade. In this past year, we also bought another week at Ocean Landings, which is a well-run resort with low MF's. Thanks to eBay, we bought 2 more deeded weeks in Hawaii that we will use, and we bought 3 weeks at Summer Bay in Las Vegas that will be upgraded to GC, thanks to the deal between our dedicated HOA and Harrahs. I read that depressing points article in Timesharing Today and am thankful we have deeded weeks that will be used to vacation every year with family and friends. We are no longer at the mercy of RCI hoping for a trade. If we choose to trade one of our Summer Bay weeks, we will give DAE our business, which does not rent out deposited weeks, or TPI, which has effectively come through with quality resorts in Hawaii for us over the past few years. SFX left us hanging like RCI and also increased their fees for bonus weeks. We will still check out RCI for last minute getaways, but we are no longer willing to feed their blatent greed.

 

[littlestar]

One of our resorts is a VRI managed resort. When I go to their website and look at their list of properties they manage, they really have some sweet resorts. I, too, am looking forward to what the future holds with VRI.

The other resorts we own are with Marriott and DVC.

I like the looks of the resorts I see in all three of our groups, VRI, Marriott, and DVC.

 

[chemteach]

I'm with talkamotta. I have never been able to get weeks for as little as $300 with my timeshares because I can't work the system as well as many tuggers out here. But I do take 4 weeklong vacations every year, often getting 2 units together so that friends can join us, (sometimes even 3 units!) and though our weekly costs average about $700+ per week including maintenance fees, exchange fees, and sometimes guest certificates for our friends, there is no way we could get the units we do for only $700. Of course, I do plan 2 years in advance to take advantage of bulk bankings so I can get multiple units together. For now, the system works great for me, but I never had the expectation of getting my weeks for a total cost of less than $600. Even on the seemingly depressed rental market, the units I exchange into would cost $1000+, typically more than $1500. The initial purchase price on all my units but one (the developer-purchased unit...) have already been paid for with my lower-priced exchanges.