Craigendarroch - Hilton Honors CC / Which weeks most marketable for resale

[2travelinggoatz]

Hi y'all... hoping everyone is looking forward to an amazing holiday season!

Have two questions regarding Craigendarroch:

1. When so far we will have to pay for the Craigendarroch cost via a credit card (per the 'super friendly' sales fellow). That being said, if we were to use our Amex/Hilton Honors card, I understand that we would NOT receive HHonors points for MF's, Membership dues payments, etc. However, what about the cost for an initial purchase of points? Are HHonors points applied then if this card is used? Yes? No?

2. Which weeks would be most marketable at Craigendarroch should you want to sell in the future? I assume Brits are more likely to be the potential buyers??? Let me just say as well that we would like to visit there once in a while and we are not skiers, but we don't mind the cold/snow, etc. If we buy, we thought it might be wisest to base our decision more so on future marketability in case we have to get rid of it, rather than when we would prefer to visit. Is this a good strategy and if so.... Summer? Fall? or Winter/Christmas?

Thanks so much for all your input.

Be well!!

 

[GT75]

However, what about the cost for an initial purchase of points? Are HHonors points applied then if this card is used? Yes? No?

Yes

 

[2travelinggoatz]

Hi there, GT75! Hoping you are well... Thank you for the reply, appreciate it.

 

[alwysonvac]

Which weeks would be most marketable at Craigendarroch should you want to sell in the future? I assume Brits are more likely to be the potential buyers??? Let me just say as well that we would like to visit there once in a while and we are not skiers, but we don't mind the cold/snow, etc. If we buy, we thought it might be wisest to base our decision more so on future marketability in case we have to get rid of it, rather than when we would prefer to visit. Is this a good strategy and if so.... Summer? Fall? or Winter/Christmas?

Thanks so much for all your input.

Be well!!

Summer is the high demand time according to Interval International’s travel demand period (see below) and Craigendarroch rental prices. It’s never a bad idea especially if resale prices aren’t drastically different but I’m not familiar enough with the area to know if it’s necessary.

 

[TravelTime]

I do not know that resort specifically. However we did a 3 week tour of England and Scotland ending in Dublin a few years ago. August was super busy due to the Edinburgh Fesitval. We lucked out and were there during the festival. While in Edinburgh, we did many day trips outside of the city. You might do some research on the month of August in Scotland. Perhaps late July and August are great for folks who want to stay in Craigendarroch before or after the festival.

BTW, Scotland is a magical country with a lot of mystery. I sensed it was very different than England and Ireland in its culture and style, even though they are neighbors and share a lot of similarities.

 

[2travelinggoatz]

Hello there, thank you so very much for this info. Makes total sense!!

 

[2travelinggoatz]

Summer is the high demand time according to Interval International’s travel demand period (see below) and Craigendarroch rental prices. It’s never a bad idea especially if resale prices aren’t drastically different but I’m not familiar enough with the area to know if it’s necessary.

Thanks very much for this chart and info. A true eye opener!!!

 

[DannyTS]

Summer is the high demand time according to Interval International’s travel demand period (see below) and Craigendarroch rental prices. It’s never a bad idea especially if resale prices aren’t drastically different but I’m not familiar enough with the area to know if it’s necessary.

Sorry to say it but I find the Interval chart pretty useless in this case because it covers a whole country. How can you compare a ski resort with London and with Newquay? At Craigendarroch I go by the rental price on their website. The highest is the New Year's week (week one on the resort calendar), followed by Christmas (week 52 on the calendar) then July and August.

https://rentals.higvc.co.uk/

According to the resort sales department, about 90% of the buyers are locals. Because they do not buy for points, the busiest time of the year (New Year's week) does have more resale value.

There is one more reason to consider the New Year's week, if available. Because it is week one on the calendar, if you deposit the week you receive the HGVC points in your account for the following year so you do not have to pay a fee to save them, not to mention they are valid one more year in case you do want to save them later. Since so many points go to waste in this industry because they expire, having one more year to use them can mean $$$ savings in time.

 

[DannyTS]

By the way, if anyone is interested, this is the resort calendar. As i mentioned before, week 52 is the Christmas week and week one is New Year's week. I am not sure i have seen a similar calendar at any other resort.

 

[2travelinggoatz]

Sorry to say it but I find the Interval chart pretty useless in this case because it covers a whole country. How can you compare a ski resort with London and with Newquay? At Craigendarroch I go by the rental price on their website. The highest is the New Year's week (week one on the resort calendar), followed by Christmas (week 52 on the calendar) then July and August.

https://rentals.higvc.co.uk/


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There is one more reason to consider the New Year's week, if available. Because it is week one on the calendar, if you deposit the week you receive the HGVC points in your account for the following year so you do not have to pay a fee to save them, not to mention they are valid one more year in case you do want to save them later. Since so many points go to waste in this industry because they expire, having one more year to use them can mean $$$ savings in time

Oh my... Thank you. This is an interesting viewpoint. I will take a look at the website.

I would think it is safe to assume then that the Brits go here for their ski vacation/quick in-country getaway, whilst in the summer when vacations are longer, they want to leave their homeland and head to the beaches instead of a "walk in the woods" in their own country. From that perspective it would make sense why the rental prices are higher at the end of the year.

I do wonder what the effect would be then if you own around Christmas and/or New Year's and want to exchange within Interval? From a resale it makes sense, but for exchanging? I have no experience as yet with any of this, so your input much appreciated. Thank you kindly.

 

[alwysonvac]

Sorry to say it but I find the Interval chart pretty useless in this case because it covers a whole country. How can you compare a ski resort with London and with Newquay? At Craigendarroch I go by the rental price on their website. The highest is the New Year's week (week one on the resort calendar), followed by Christmas (week 52 on the calendar) then July and August.
https://rentals.higvc.co.uk/

I compared the II travel demand index to other websites on Scotland before posting (see links below). Holidays and event weeks are normally more expensive.

JMHO...I would buy a summer week if I was concerned about marketability.

https://travel.usnews.com/Scottish_Highlands_Scotland/When_To_Visit/
https://traveltips.usatoday.com/time-travel-scotland-15108.html

Here’s HGVC’s Season Chart.

 

[DannyTS]

Oh my... Thank you. This is an interesting viewpoint. I will take a look at the website.

I would think it is safe to assume then that the Brits go here for their ski vacation/quick in-country getaway, whilst in the summer when vacations are longer, they want to leave their homeland and head to the beaches instead of a "walk in the woods" in their own country. From that perspective it would make sense why the rental prices are higher at the end of the year.

I do wonder what the effect would be then if you own around Christmas and/or New Year's and want to exchange within Interval? From a resale it makes sense, but for exchanging? I have no experience as yet with any of this, so your input much appreciated. Thank you kindly.

I think part of the reason is that the Scotts are really into celebrating the New Year's and the tourists, even coming from outside UK find that very special. There is also the fact that there are at least 8 popular weeks during the summer so the interest is not concentrated on one week only.

Concerning Interval, the answer is not easy because they are very opaque with the trading power. I am not sure any Tugger owns both a New Year's week and a summer week to help you with a real comparison.

 

[DannyTS]

I compared the II travel demand index to other websites on Scotland before posting (see links below). Holidays and event weeks are normally more expensive.

JMHO...I would buy a summer week if I was concerned about marketability.

https://travel.usnews.com/Scottish_Highlands_Scotland/When_To_Visit/
https://traveltips.usatoday.com/time-travel-scotland-15108.html

Here’s HGVC’s Season Chart.

View attachment 9032

Don't you find it odd in these articles that the busiest and most expensive times of the year, Christmas and New Year's are not even mentioned? Besides, when do any travel guides recommend those weeks anywhere in the world since they know those weeks are busy and expensive and do not need any more publicity?

I continue to believe that the rental price is the best indication of popularity. Since 90% of the buyers are local i would go with what the local people say.

 

[alwysonvac]

Don't you find it odd in these articles that the busiest and most expensive times of the year, Christmas and New Year's are not even mentioned? Besides, when do any travel guides recommend those weeks anywhere in the world since they know those weeks are busy and expensive and do not need any more publicity?

I continue to believe that the rental price is the best indication of popularity.

Yes rental price is one indicator. I personally don’t like the fact that the weeks before and after are low value (HGVC Silver and bronze weeks) which tells me the only reason the rental rates are higher is because it’s a holiday week otherwise it’s slow.

 

[DannyTS]

Yes rental price is one indicator. I personally don’t like the fact that the weeks before and after are low value (HGVC Silver and bronze weeks) which tells me the only reason the rental rates are higher is because it’s a holiday week otherwise it’s slow.

But this is the point, how can you ignore that it's a holiday? I just do not understand the logic. That of course, changes everything. Unless you fear that in Scotland, Christmas and New Year's are suddenly going to be moved to November.
By the way, at Lagunamar where i am also an owner, the weeks before and after Christmas and New Year's are low season on the resort calendar. So what, does that make the holiday weeks less valuable? Absolutely not, as a matter of fact i think they cost up to 50 % more than the regular platinum weeks.

 

[alwysonvac]

But this is the point, how can you ignore that it's a holiday? I just do not understand the logic. That of course, changes everything. Unless you fear that in Scotland, Christmas and New Year's are suddenly going to be moved to November.
By the way, at Lagunamar where i am also an owner, the weeks before and after Christmas and New Year's are low season on the resort calendar. So what, does that make the holiday weeks less valuable? Absolutely not, as a matter of fact i think they cost up to 50 % more than the regular platinum weeks.

Yes you’re right. The same is true for Orlando and other destinations too.
And some places are simply more desirable than others during the holidays.

 

[TravelTime]

Not all holiday weeks are high demand actually. In some locations, like the California coast, Summer is higher demand in general than holidays although there may be a slight peak during Christmas and/or New Years and then it quickly drops again. In Spain, Christmas/New Years week have a slight peak but the weeks before and after are dead. Summer in Europe is consistently busy. It really depends on the weather and the location. If I were purchasing in Scotland, I would buy early August for the Edinburgh Festival. It is a world renowned international festival. I was there and it is amazing. I would personally take into account that sometimes I might attend the festival to combine with my week at Craigendarroch. Keep in mind if you buy a week resale, the future resale value is already priced into it today so it really does not matter what week you buy so buy the week that meets your goals now. If you have ever been to Scotland and you have experienced the weather, you would understand my recommendation for buying summer and the festival time. Also, as far as I know, Scotland is not known for skiing. The best ski resorts in Europe are only a short plane ride away. In studying demand, it is helpful to look beyond timeshares and at general vacation patterns and human behavior.

Edit: If people are going to Craigendarroch for skiing, then the entire winter season should be high demand.

 

[DannyTS]

this is what Hogmanay (New Year's) looks like in Edinburgh:

 

[DannyTS]

• Not all holiday weeks are high demand actually. In some locations, like the California coast, Summer is higher demand in general than holidays although there may be a slight peak during Christmas and/or New Years and then it quickly drops again. In Spain, Christmas/New Years week have a slight peak but the weeks before and after are dead. Summer in Europe is consistently busy. It really depends on the weather and the location. If I were purchasing in Scotland, I would buy early August for the Edinburgh Festival. It is a world renowned international festival. I was there and it is amazing. I would personally take into account that sometimes I might attend the festival to combine with my week at Craigendarroch. Keep in mind if you buy a week resale, the future resale value is already priced into it today so it really does not matter what week you buy so buy the week that meets your goals now. If you have ever been to Scotland and you have experienced the weather, you would understand my recommendation for buying summer and the festival time. Also, as far as I know, Scotland is not known for skiing. The best ski resorts in Europe are only a short plane ride away. In studying demand, it is helpful to look beyond timeshares and at general vacation patterns and human behavior.
  
  Edit: If people are going to Craigendarroch for skiing, then the entire winter season should be high demand.

  I think you are ignoring the local traditions, Hogmanay is big in Scotland.

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z8ckqhv
• 

• Where's the party?

• New Year’s Eve is marked around the globe in spectacular fashion but, arguably, Scotland is where the real party takes place. Hogmanay, as it’s known, is a highlight of Scotland’s cultural calendar.
  
  The origin of the word is unclear, but it may come from the French 'hoginane’ or Scandinavian 'hoggo-nott', meaning yule.
  
  The importance of Hogmanay is highlighted by the fact that Scots are given two days holiday to recover. But lively celebrations are not a recent phenomenon. In fact, they can be attributed to a pagan past and the prohibition of Christmas.

• Why is Scotland different?
  A number of Hogmanay fire celebrations are held across the country, including in the seaside town of Stonehaven which welcomes in the New Year with the spectacular fireballs ceremony. Clip: Coast (BBC Two).
  
  Pagan Scots marked the year end at Samhain, when the harvest was in and the sun was weakening.
  
  Later Scots celebrated the midwinter yule festival and this continued after Catholicism became the nation’s religion. Yule was a time of gluttony and revelry, with bonfires, guising, house-visiting and hospitality lasting for an extended period known as 'the daft days’.
  
  With the Protestant reformation in 1560, reformers began banning, discouraging or suppressing mass, feast days and other traditions associated with the Catholic Church, including Christ’s Mass - Christmas.
  
  By 1640, an Act of Parliament officially abolished the ‘yule vacance’, the Christmas break. This likely had the result of focusing yule festivities and customs on New Year.
  
  The Act was partly repealed in the late 17th Century, but did little to overturn the diminished role of Christmas in Scotland. Reformers worshipped only at times specifically commanded in the Bible and there was no scriptural evidence for December 25th as Christ’s birth date.
  
  So for Scots, New Year remained the main opportunity for merriment during dark winter months. This was the case until relatively recently, because it wasn’t until 1958 that Christmas became a public holiday in Scotland, in common with the rest of the UK.

• Trusted traditions
  
  
  
  Mary Evans
  
  An engraving from Chambers' Book of Days (1863) portrays first footing in the Scottish capital, where 'the principal streets were more thronged between twelve and one in the morning than they usually were at midday'.
  
  Hogmanay is steeped in tradition, but where do the customs come from and what do they mean?
  
  The popular belief is that the dark stranger at the door is a response to the Viking invasions, when the arrival of a blond man would indicate imminent danger. It’s also commonly thought that the first foot should bring gifts of black bun and a lump of coal to ensure sufficient food and a warm home in the year ahead.
  
  However, it’s likely that these rituals are older and come from a Samhain visiting custom to do with entering the dark half of the year and interaction with the mysterious realm of darkness.
  
  Both Samhain and New Year customs are about luck-bringing visitors, trying to determine the future, and looking backwards and forwards in time at this 'in between' point of the year.
  
  So people expect – indeed hope - to receive a visitor from the darkness, who they will invite in and ‘neutralise’ with hospitality and food. They accept the darkness, but are always looking ahead to the return of a strong sun and resurgent nature in the coming months.

 

[TravelTime]

Have you been to Scotland yet?

Edit: If New Years is a great week, then that is fine. It should be priced into the resale purchase price to account for being a special week.

 

[alwysonvac]

One would expect a big New Year’s celebration in Edinburgh.
The Hilton Grand Vacations at Craigendarroch is over two hours away.

I found this thread on Tripadvisor.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTop...Aberdeen_Aberdeenshire_Scotland.html#87509841

It refers to Stonehaven which is about one hour away -
http://stonehavenfireballs.co.uk/
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...eballs-Stonehaven_Aberdeenshire_Scotland.html

 

[TravelTime]

The OP said he wants a week that he will use sometimes and that will hold its value. If I were the OP, I would determine how I will use the week and when I want to visit. Then I would decide how much I want to spend now. The more desireable weeks will be priced higher now. So I would look at these factors:
1) Demand/desireability/marketability (for future resale)
2) When I might want to use it (since OP says they may visit sometimes)
3) My budget now for buying the week (how much can OP afford upfront now?)

 

[DannyTS]

One would expect a big New Year’s celebration in Edinburgh.
The Hilton Grand Vacations at Craigendarroch is over two hours away.

I found this thread on Tripadvisor.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTop...Aberdeen_Aberdeenshire_Scotland.html#87509841

It refers to Stonehaven which is about one hour away -
http://stonehavenfireballs.co.uk/
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...eballs-Stonehaven_Aberdeenshire_Scotland.html

Scots are very fond of the New Year's celebration. They do not have to be in Edinburgh to have a good time and that is why resorts in Scotland are very busy during that time of the year.

The OP said: "Let me just say as well that we would like to visit there once in a while and we are not skiers, but we don't mind the cold/snow, etc. If we buy, we thought it might be wisest to base our decision more so on future marketability". Not only the OP would not visit often enough for the home priority to make a difference, he/she may end up using points anyways (at the resort or the sister Craigendarroch suites) because they may want a different number of days or a different condo size. The Scotland resorts are not hard to book for the summer months. Finding a deal in RCI is also an option, a 1 bedroom only requires 3400 points for a week so a 2 bedroom platinum can be exchanged into 2 weeks of vacation.

Here is the current availability for August 2019 at the Hilton Craigendarroch suites

 

[TravelTime]

This website is helpful: http://www.craigendarroch.com/

I did not realize how far north Craigendarroch is. We traveled all around that area when we were in Scotland, by land and Windstar cruises. It was late summer and we had beautiful weather. The locals said the great weather was rare even in the summer. We sailed all around Scotland and it was one of the most amazing cruises ever even though it was not my typical beach vacation. I fell in love with Scotland. Hope to return one day for some more tall tales, castles and knights in shining armor.

 

[TravelTime]

Just out of curiosity, I have been trying to look up the pricing for Craigendarroch. It is hard to find where people list them. I finally found a list of for sale by owners: http://www.craigendarroch.co.uk/sale.htm.

There are a few week 1s listed here and they seem to want a premium. There is a great deal on a week 52. There are not many summer weeks but I saw some week 30s.

There are a lot of free/cheap weeks in undesireable seasons.

The rental prices do seem to go up for Christmas and New Years as well as summer (using rental prices as a proxy for demand and desireability). So it seems like week 1, 52 and summer would be fine. I still think my recommendation to look at the three variables I mentioned earlier makes sense. That is what I always consider when I pick a season or week, unless my goal is something different (like buying a week simply for points).

I am curious where people list their Craigendarroch weeks for sale. It seems like they do not go through the typical timeshare brokers I am used to using.