Considerations when buying a resale

[bbs_ghost]

I recently attended a presentation, but thanks to insights from this forum, I didn’t end up buying directly from the developers at their inflated prices. That said, I really do like the concept and still want to become an owner.


I noticed that they’re now selling a points-based system instead of the traditional floating weeks. However, both options are still available on the resale market. We don’t plan to use a fixed “home week” and are more interested in the flexibility that the points system offers. But we’re wondering:


a. Is the per-point annual fee for a floating week converted to points cheaper, the same, or more expensive than buying directly into a pure points-based system? Or does it depend on the specific resort?


b. Are there any additional pros or cons we should consider when deciding between these two options?


c. What are the real disadvantages—if any—of buying resale instead of directly from the developers?


d. Excluding high-demand places like Hawaii, is it generally easy to find availability at most properties?


e. Anything else we should be aware of?


Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Pamplemousse]

a) depends on the resort- maintence fees and the number of points you would get if you elected the week to points varies by resort. But you CAN’T buy an enrolled resale week on the secondary market- you can’t elect (“convert”) the resale week to points.
The resale weeks are seldom fixed, usually floating within a season- each year you reserve the week you want to use.

b) there are many potential pros and cons to each depending on your needs. Have a look at the pink areas at the beginning of this forum for more info on how they work.
A few quick thoughts- with a week you either stay your ownership (resort and season) or exchange on interval. You need to buy a membership and pay exchange fees. Views are not guaranteed, exchanges are for a week. You do need to learn the system to maximize your results but it can be a great value especially if you get a lock off and get 2 weeks vacation for your maintence fee.
Points give you the option to book any number of nights and any view. You pay club dues which include a II account. You book abound resorts directly but would need to use interval for others. Points expire after one year and can be banked for one year. Points can be more expensive to use than an exchange (esp lock off).

c) resale points are the same as what you would buy directly after you pay the $3/points activation fee to MVC.
MVC no longer sells weeks that compare to those you would buy resale- but the resale weeks are just the same as what they used to sell- they just can’t be enrolled in Abound.
The unique thing you can buy directly from MVC is a bundle including an enrolled week which you can elect points and points- both together.

d) You really need to be able to plan a year ahead if you want something specific. There is an inventory release date for points and it’s best to have a request in place for an exchange on II when weeks are deposited 12-13 months in advance. That said, inventory changes all the time and it is very possible to find reservations at various times. If you can be very flexible that works too. You just have to learn the system and search frequently. Any location can be high demand at certain times- don’t assume it’s just Hawaii.

e) You need to do tons of reach to be sure you understand Abound, Interval and think about how ownership will fit into your life long range. You can book all of these resorts with cash directly or through redweek, etc- you don’t have to own.

 

[ljmiii]

a. Is the per-point annual fee for a floating week converted to points cheaper, the same, or more expensive than buying directly into a pure points-based system? Or does it depend on the specific resort?

There are exceptions (particularly for stays in very low season) but generally speaking points will be more expensive.

b. Are there any additional pros or cons we should consider when deciding between these two options?

If there is a resort at which you want to stay for a week at least once every other year the easiest and most cost effective way to do so is to buy a resale week there. "Buy where you want to stay" is a truism in the world of timeshares. If you don't own at the resort you will have to exchange in using points or Interval International. There are advantages to both approaches with some resorts easier to get into with points and other through II.

c. What are the real disadvantages—if any—of buying resale instead of directly from the developers?

There are none. There are only two situations in which it is advantageous to buy directly from MVC.

The first is if MVC has an enrolled week (i.e. electable into points) they are willing to sell at a 'reasonable' price that you want to use as a week some of the time. In the US this would be part of a hybrid week/point package and outside the US they still sell standalone enrolled weeks. But in most cases it will be less expensive to just buy the week and the points resale.

The second is if you plan to make a large commitment to MVC ownership, buy a bunch of resale weeks with an eye to their MF/point value ratio, and then buy the minimum necessary directly from MVC to enroll the lot of them. But that is a large commitment and the rules can change at any time.

d. Excluding high-demand places like Hawaii, is it generally easy to find availability at most properties?

Actually the issue isn't "high-demand" but "high-demand/low-inventory". So Hawaii (aside from Maui) is actually quite easy to get into at 13 months. Generally speaking the hardest places to get into using points are those that can't be in the Points Trust - those outside the US and Boston.

And as I wrote earlier, some resorts are easier to get into using points and others using weeks. Many MVC owners have both points and 'good traders' to use in II.

 

[Dean]

I think timeshares in general and MVC specifically are great for some people and horrible for others. It's ALWAYS a bad idea to buy retail for a someone new to the concept and almost always as their first purchase and truthfully it's VERY rare for retail to make sense for any purchase. My view is you first decide what your vacation profile is. First and foremost is budget. Can one afford it by paying cash and will the yearly commitments cause a strain on the budget going forward, if there's a problem with either of these areas, do not buy. Then consider where you likely will travel routinely, how far in advance you can and will plan, how flexible you are, usual length of travel and unit size needed for most trips. IMO for timeshares to make sense one needs to be flexible, they need to be able to plan a good 12 months in advance, value the extra space/kitchen and be OK with what one is giving up such as some level of control, daily housekeeping and being limited to the timeshare options at least for that travel. In no circumstances does it make sense to buy for non timeshare options like hotels, cruise, land tours.

Assuming one fits the profile then they should spend a number of months learning about the system and other systems. Consider which ones fits the best esp the locations one generally prefers to travel. Maybe that's MVC, but maybe it's Wyndham, Bluegreen, Worldmark, Hilton or Hyatt. Cheapest may not be best but one wants to make informed decision. For most that new to timesharing, renting privately for at least 1 to 2 trips is best. Buying rapidly skipping the trial step or before they have all the appropriate knowledge and some experience ithinking that next trip is a discount is a very poor plan IMO.

Resale can be dramatically cheaper for many options and modestly so for others. For MVC, buying weeks resale is almost always the best option even if they want to end up with some points. Resale weeks can give you lots of options and in some ways is even more flexible than points though not in others. If there's a main location you would routinely go, buying what will get you there directly is often best. For those that are extremely flexible, buying a trading week can be the best, for others not though ia trading week can add significant value to one's options even if not the main mode of usage.

Let me add that when I say flexible, that doesn't mean 2 weeks around spring break and 2 weeks mid summer across 1 or 2 resorts, one needs to be FAR more flexible than that OR buy the option that will basically guarantee that access which will usually be quite a bit more expensive. Getting the points option will add considerable cost but can be far cheaper than just buying points retail and even resale points. Worst case scenario you buy a week that roughly matches the points you need and do so retail. The up front cost will be close to the same but the yearly costs should be far less and you'll generally have more options. You can only do this at places that are in active sales and don't sell points like Spain, Aruba, St. Kitts, etc. An even better option for many is to buy one or more weeks resale then buying a qualifying week to give points on the resale weeks, again for Aruba, etc. Spain is usually the cheapest to do so. Another option for those that feel they need a lot of points (like 20K) is ia an option I consider more risky at present a fractional For Grand Residence at Lake Tahoe then pay to enroll it. The will be a large up front cost but still far cheaper than buying that many points and will be a lot cheaper yearly than owning points. I consider it risky for 2 reasons. One is they are likely to have some significant fee increase upcoming because they've underfunded the reserves and even more importantly is the BOD and MVC are at odds right now basically over the budget and there is the possibility that the resort will cease to be in the MVC system. Not saying it'll go away but it could and one needs to understand that risk.

If you'll post more about your plans and usual travel patterns we can offer more tailored advice.

 

[jp10558]

I recently attended a presentation, but thanks to insights from this forum, I didn’t end up buying directly from the developers at their inflated prices. That said, I really do like the concept and still want to become an owner.

I don't know about MVC specifically, but like @Dean said - I'd take a step back, go to the new timeshare's forum and fill out the "what should I buy" sort of post. Because selecting MVC resale is a couple steps down the process IMO.

First - do Timeshares work for you at all? From unit types, to stay lengths, to locations, to costs, to planning requirements, etc.

If they do work - which system or systems actually work for you? It can be hard to "know" without staying at some, and what looks "good" on the brochure doesn't mean it fits you. At the very least - do you actually want to go to the locations? Do you like stand alone or townhouse / duplex style units, or large towers? Do you want to be right on the beach or do you want easy free parking? What is your actual price point, and how much do you care about "fanciness", "Housekeeping", specific amenities, etc.

For instance, HGVC has towers, and most anything is "housekeeping" - have trash? Put it outside the door and text housekeeping. Need toilet paper etc? Text housekeeping. They do a midweek tidy if you want. Downsides are pay for parking, which is sometimes limited or a hassle. You have to haul all your stuff in and out via luggage carts and elevators. Entry/exit can be difficult at busy times cause of not a lot of room for the cars from valet or the garage is a block or more away or both.

On the other side is many independent or Vacation Village locations - frequently free parking near the units, walk up units (but one flight of stairs potentially), cheaper weeks all around, but you are more on your own for consumables and there's no midweek cleaning (sometimes you can pay a large fee for it).

Etc...

 

[bbs_ghost]

I think timeshares in general and MVC specifically are great for some people and horrible for others. It's ALWAYS a bad idea to buy retail for a someone new to the concept and almost always as their first purchase and truthfully it's VERY rare for retail to make sense for any purchase. My view is you first decide what your vacation profile is. First and foremost is budget. Can one afford it by paying cash and will the yearly commitments cause a strain on the budget going forward, if there's a problem with either of these areas, do not buy. Then consider where you likely will travel routinely, how far in advance you can and will plan, how flexible you are, usual length of travel and unit size needed for most trips. IMO for timeshares to make sense one needs to be flexible, they need to be able to plan a good 12 months in advance, value the extra space/kitchen and be OK with what one is giving up such as some level of control, daily housekeeping and being limited to the timeshare options at least for that travel. In no circumstances does it make sense to buy for non timeshare options like hotels, cruise, land tours.

Assuming one fits the profile then they should spend a number of months learning about the system and other systems. Consider which ones fits the best esp the locations one generally prefers to travel. Maybe that's MVC, but maybe it's Wyndham, Bluegreen, Worldmark, Hilton or Hyatt. Cheapest may not be best but one wants to make informed decision. For most that new to timesharing, renting privately for at least 1 to 2 trips is best. Buying rapidly skipping the trial step or before they have all the appropriate knowledge and some experience ithinking that next trip is a discount is a very poor plan IMO.

Resale can be dramatically cheaper for many options and modestly so for others. For MVC, buying weeks resale is almost always the best option even if they want to end up with some points. Resale weeks can give you lots of options and in some ways is even more flexible than points though not in others. If there's a main location you would routinely go, buying what will get you there directly is often best. For those that are extremely flexible, buying a trading week can be the best, for others not though ia trading week can add significant value to one's options even if not the main mode of usage.

Let me add that when I say flexible, that doesn't mean 2 weeks around spring break and 2 weeks mid summer across 1 or 2 resorts, one needs to be FAR more flexible than that OR buy the option that will basically guarantee that access which will usually be quite a bit more expensive. Getting the points option will add considerable cost but can be far cheaper than just buying points retail and even resale points. Worst case scenario you buy a week that roughly matches the points you need and do so retail. The up front cost will be close to the same but the yearly costs should be far less and you'll generally have more options. You can only do this at places that are in active sales and don't sell points like Spain, Aruba, St. Kitts, etc. An even better option for many is to buy one or more weeks resale then buying a qualifying week to give points on the resale weeks, again for Aruba, etc. Spain is usually the cheapest to do so. Another option for those that feel they need a lot of points (like 20K) is ia an option I consider more risky at present a fractional For Grand Residence at Lake Tahoe then pay to enroll it. The will be a large up front cost but still far cheaper than buying that many points and will be a lot cheaper yearly than owning points. I consider it risky for 2 reasons. One is they are likely to have some significant fee increase upcoming because they've underfunded the reserves and even more importantly is the BOD and MVC are at odds right now basically over the budget and there is the possibility that the resort will cease to be in the MVC system. Not saying it'll go away but it could and one needs to understand that risk.

If you'll post more about your plans and usual travel patterns we can offer more tailored advice.

Thanks so much for the input from all!

Usual travel patterns: We are relatively flexible, can travel anywhere during the spring break and summer when kids are not at school. We like planing before - by planing I mean monitor and optimize airline miles and hotel points across many programs to find availability that happen to work together, etc. I think we should be able to take advantage the timeshare system and try digging it the most.

Plans: We can tolerate staying in the same resort year by year but would much prefer rotating a few quality ones, and we are based on the west and no longer wants to fly to HI or east cost any more, unlike before when we were younger. I do agree with @jp10558 that "I'd take a step back, go to the new timeshare's forum and fill out the "what should I buy" sort of post. Because selecting MVC resale is a couple steps down the process IMO." It might be the case that HRC works the best for us by rotating the highland inn, lake tahoe, sedona, and else - as that is already point based by default, which I incorrectly assumed to be the case for abound.

Again, thanks so much for the great info!

 

[Dean]

Thanks so much for the input from all!

Usual travel patterns: We are relatively flexible, can travel anywhere during the spring break and summer when kids are not at school. We like planing before - by planing I mean monitor and optimize airline miles and hotel points across many programs to find availability that happen to work together, etc. I think we should be able to take advantage the timeshare system and try digging it the most.

Plans: We can tolerate staying in the same resort year by year but would much prefer rotating a few quality ones, and we are based on the west and no longer wants to fly to HI or east cost any more, unlike before when we were younger. I do agree with @jp10558 that "I'd take a step back, go to the new timeshare's forum and fill out the "what should I buy" sort of post. Because selecting MVC resale is a couple steps down the process IMO." It might be the case that HRC works the best for us by rotating the highland inn, lake tahoe, sedona, and else - as that is already point based by default, which I incorrectly assumed to be the case for abound.

Again, thanks so much for the great info!

In many cases you'll need to finalize your plans before you can know what air is going to be. That's not to say all options require this but for many you'll have to reserve at 11, 12 or even 13 months out but for exchanges it may only be a few months out before you know where you're going and exactly when. Keep in mind that low demand times for hotels are not always the same as timeshares. It's eary to get Orlando, Williamsburg and Branson those time but other resorts will be more challenging. As you gain more knowledge you'll have a better feel for what works and what doesn't in your situation. Warm weather options much easier to get in summer, not so much spring break but even then you'll need to play far in advance for most of those options.