CDC Warning about counterfeit masks

[Bunk]

I've been at a few meetings in the last two weeks where masks are required again. I checked on the CDC website to look up the current mask requirements:

In its website updated May 28, 2021, CDC encourages KN95 masks but then warns about:

• Counterfeit (fake)KN95 masks
  • BE AWARE: About 60% KN95 masks in the United States are counterfeit (fake) and DO NOT meet NIOSH requirements.

I believe that most masks are purchased on line. I see that Amazon is selling KN95 masks. Does Amazon have any responsibility to check whether the masks it sells are counterfeit? It looks like they can sell dreck with no consequences.

Masks and Respirators

Wear a mask with the best fit, protection, and comfort for you.

www.cdc.gov

 

["Roger"]

Here is a NY Times article

from last February warning about fake masks. It warns that many of the masks on Amazon (and elsewhere) are not up to the KN95 standards despite claims to the contrary. Based upon this article, I have ordered my masks from

bonafidemasks.com.

 

[geekette]

I believe that most masks are purchased on line. I see that Amazon is selling KN95 masks. Does Amazon have any responsibility to check whether the masks it sells are counterfeit? It looks like they can sell dreck with no consequences.

responsibility? Nope. buyer beware, same as always. Same with Walmart or any mass merchandiser. Unit sales are the point, not necessarily quality or ‘real thing assurance’.

 

[DrQ]

A US company making NIOSH approved N95 masks in TX:

United States Mask

United States Mask manufactures and sells NIOSH-approved N95 respirator masks (TC-84A-PH20) here in the USA with U.S. materials and adhere to rigorous NIOSH standards. Our 5-layer design ensures protection from over 95% of airborne particles and liquids. Inventory available in 20 pack, case &...

www.unitedstatesmask.com

EDIT:
Looks like they are out of stock:

A little while ago, we suspended production of our Model 1836. Our 1836 N95 is certified by NIOSH under the public health emergency, which means the 1836's approval is only effective while the emergency use of personal respiratory protective devices is in effect. United States Mask was one of a select few who were approved to manufacture N95's under this emergency use authorization and we’re proud of that. The 1836 N95 represents what we’re capable of when Americans set their mind to something.

We plan on being here for the long haul. In order for us to keep on serving you in the future, our team needs to be 100% focused on developing and getting the factory ready for our new N95 model.

 

[Bunk]

responsibility? Nope. buyer beware, same as always. Same with Walmart or any mass merchandiser. Unit sales are the point, not necessarily quality or ‘real thing assurance’.

I might be wrong, but I think that a Brick and Mortar Retailer is liable for the sale of a counterfeit product when purchased at the store whereas e-commerce retailers such as Amazon and Walmart while wearing that hat) have more protection.

 

[geekette]

I might be wrong, but I think that a Brick and Mortar Retailer is liable for the sale of a counterfeit product when purchased at the store whereas e-commerce retailers such as Amazon and Walmart while wearing that hat) have more protection.

Ooooh, I do hope you are wrong. Sales should be treated same, IMO. I would be in favor of vendor liability but I doubt it exists.

 

[SabresFan]

There's a difference between things sold ON Amazon and things sold BY Amazon. A ton of stuff on Amazon is from third parties that basically pay Amazon a marketing fee to put their stuff on their site. Almost all the masks being sold on Amazon are being sold by these third parties.

 

[Janann]

I might be wrong, but I think that a Brick and Mortar Retailer is liable for the sale of a counterfeit product when purchased at the store

Nope. For example, let's say a major grocery store buys small individual packages of beef that are labeled as 100% beef. Then someone tests one package and finds out that the product is 97% beef and 3% pork. The grocery store is not liable -- how could they be expected to test every product every time before it is put on a shelf?

 

[Bunk]

Sorry if this is too boring.

Brick and mortar store: If you buy a counterfeit or defective product from a brick and mortar store, I have no doubt that the store has to return your money under the Uniform Commercial Code because there is a total failure of consideration. Between a grocery store and a consumer the grocery store cannot keep the money.
If you buy a counterfeit or defective product from a brick and mortar store and suffer personal injury, under some circumstances, the seller is strictly liable. So you don't have to plead or prove negligence. The law on strict products liability in New York is that a manufacturer, wholesaler, distributor, or retailer who sells a product in a defective condition is liable for injury which results from the use of the product. A defectively designed product is one which, at the time it leaves the seller’s hands, is in a condition not reasonably contemplated by the ultimate consumer, is unreasonably dangerous for its intended use, and whose utility does not outweigh the danger inherent in its introduction into the stream of commerce.

On line marketplace: E-retailers have more protection on the theory that they are not sellers but simply operators of a platform. Most product liability laws predate the internet and the laws have not been changed to reflect the reality of e-commerce: Here is a recent article that I've abridged:
With many consumers turning to more shopping online, what liability do online marketplaces face when a product is sold to a consumer by a third-party seller that is defective or counterfeit? Often, none.
Online marketplaces may escape liability for harmful or counterfeit products sold by third-party sellers if marketplaces are not considered the sellers of these products, but instead are the platform third-party sellers use to execute their sales. Online marketplaces’ liability hinges on status as a seller of a specific product because under § 402A of the Second Restatement of Torts marketplaces must be a “seller” of products to be held strictly liable. Failing to classify online marketplaces as sellers and allowing an avoidance of liability is crushing the ability for consumers to have effective means of recourse when they have purchased harmful products online, a fundamental component of consumer protection. It can be very challenging or even impossible for consumers to hold third-party sellers liable when bad-faith third-party sellers employ strategies to avoid detection. Counterfeiters operate several seller accounts so that if one account is identified and/or removed they simply create a new account. Third-party sellers are also often shielded from legal accountability because they are located outside of the United States and its jurisdiction. If unable to hold both the online marketplace or third-party seller accountable, a harmed consumer has no recourse available. This is a complete breakdown of consumer protection measures that are supposed to be ensured to consumers.

Proposed federal legislation: President Trump tried to fight the flow of counterfeit products coming in from China and other countries by seeking sanctions. Congress was not interested in cooperating with him. A bi-partisan biil was introduced in 2020 and 2021 to regulate online selling platforms. I don't think it's gone anywhere. And even if it gains traction, you know the lobbyists on behalf of Amazon etc. will work to water down its protections.

 

[davidvel]

I've been at a few meetings in the last two weeks where masks are required again. I checked on the CDC website to look up the current mask requirements:

In its website updated May 28, 2021, CDC encourages KN95 masks but then warns about:

• Counterfeit (fake)KN95 masks
  • BE AWARE: About 60% KN95 masks in the United States are counterfeit (fake) and DO NOT meet NIOSH requirements.

I believe that most masks are purchased on line. I see that Amazon is selling KN95 masks. Does Amazon have any responsibility to check whether the masks it sells are counterfeit? It looks like they can sell dreck with no consequences.

Masks and Respirators

Wear a mask with the best fit, protection, and comfort for you.

www.cdc.gov

KN95 does not equal N95.
But in terms of requirements, N95 not a requirement for regular people. I'd bet that fake KN95 is better than any scarf or surgical mask.

 

[Passepartout]

The KN95 masks I buy from Amazon are labeled 'Not for Medical Use'. It's not that they are 'counterfeit', they just are not tested and approved for use in medical facilities.

I'm OK with that for about 10% the cost of M95 masks. Save the approved masks for medical personnel. I will get along (or have so far) just staying away from people.

 

[emeryjre]

Amazon Anti-Counterfeiting Policy - Amazon Seller Central

This is Amazon's policy on selling counterfeit products as a third party. I am not sure how hard they work to enforce the policy, but they do have a policy that prohibits counterfeits.

The problem with the masks, is what is a counterfeit? If the product is presented as being manufactured by 3M and is a N95 mask, then fairly easy to determine. If it is not made by 3M, then it is a counterfeit and I understand that Amazon has been acting quickly against these sellers.

Problem is with the KN95 masks. There are standards for the KN95 masks, but most vendors make no claim as to meeting these standards, so are they counterfeit?

I heard about US manufactures making masks that meet the N95 standards, but they are very hard to find on the internet. If anybody here knows how to find these vendors directly, please post their website link.

The

 

[Bunk]

@emeryjre

CDC is telling us that 60% of the KN95 masks are counterfeit
If you click on the CDC link for counterfeit it says: Some products with legitimate manufacturer names, showing poor filter penetration results (<95%), are counterfeit products. A number of manufacturers have also informed NIOSH that they did not produce the products associated with their name.

 

[emeryjre]

I agree that the majority of masks called KN95 masks are not manufactured to the standards established to be called a KN95 masks. What appears to have happened is that over the last 12-15 months is that a certain shape of mask has come to be called a KN95 mask. Looking at Amazon again this morning, there must be hundreds of sellers offering a "KN95" mask. Many make no claim to have a certification, many make no claim to have a certain filter penetration result, or to be manufactured by a specific manufacturer. Are they counterfeit "KN95" of course they are, but the lack of any specific claims to meet a standard make it difficult for Amazon to enforce counterfeit claims against the sellers.

I did a ton of research on masks back in March and April of 2020, as I made a personal decision to fly back and forth from San Diego to North Dakota. I wanted to have a mask that would provide a high level of filtration while on the plane. So I am familiar with standards.

I think that Google search is as big an offender in trying to find a high level filtration mask as Amazon. It is hard to find an advertiser beyond 5 or 6 vendors even 6 pages into a search. They are all the same vendors. Are they selling "legitimate" masks? Hard to know since none are offering 3M manufactured N95 masks.

 

[youppi]

Amazon Anti-Counterfeiting Policy - Amazon Seller Central

This is Amazon's policy on selling counterfeit products as a third party. I am not sure how hard they work to enforce the policy, but they do have a policy that prohibits counterfeits.

The problem with the masks, is what is a counterfeit? If the product is presented as being manufactured by 3M and is a N95 mask, then fairly easy to determine. If it is not made by 3M, then it is a counterfeit and I understand that Amazon has been acting quickly against these sellers.

Problem is with the KN95 masks. There are standards for the KN95 masks, but most vendors make no claim as to meeting these standards, so are they counterfeit?

I heard about US manufactures making masks that meet the N95 standards, but they are very hard to find on the internet. If anybody here knows how to find these vendors directly, please post their website link.

The

You can use a standard N95 sold at Home Depot like the 3M 8210plus as per https://www.fema.gov/fact-sheet/res...thorized-use-and-avoiding-fraudulent-products

3M 8210plus at Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-N95-...Prep-Respirator-20-Pack-8210PP20-DC/304748236

Look at the chart in this document for the difference between a standard N95 vs surgical N95 mask https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1794572O/surgical-n95-vs-standard-n95-which-to-consider.pdf

Other document from 3M https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...iltering-facepiece-respirators-healthcare.pdf

List of approved N95 mask https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/n95list1.html

 

["Roger"]

First of all, given what you know, why even consider Amazon? It is not a reliable source and reading their reviews is not going to help.

Whether you like it or not, almost all such masks are manufactured in China. Go to the link I provided in response #2 (the one for bonafidemasks) and look toward the bottom of the page. They link to five different news sources about buying masks. Obviously they do this in the spirit of self-promotion, but the sources do tell you more about reliable masks.

 

[emeryjre]

I have used 3M 8210plus masks whenever I have been in a crowd. Especially flying. I found several boxes that we had purchased in 2019 for a painting project. I have used certified KN95 masks for less crowded situations. Bought them at a Costco where they had pallets of them in April of 2020. 3ply paper masks the rest of the time.

Home Depot has had the 3M Aura 9205P masks available and I have purchased several more boxes recently.

Amazon also has the 3M Aura 9205P masks listed. Suppose to ship in 1-3 weeks.

They are sold and filled by Amazon, so highly, highly unlikely to be counterfeit.

The list of approved N95 masks from the CDC posted by youppi above has the American Manufacturers of certified N95 masks. You have to comb through the list, but the Manufacturers based in the US are there.

 

[DrQ]

7 Signs Your N95 Mask Might Be Fake
Counterfeit N95 respirators have infiltrated the market and could leave you at risk.

https://health.usnews.com/conditions/coronavirus-and-your-health/slideshows/signs-your-n95-mask-might-be-fake#expert-sources

 

[jlp879]

The company I work for very quickly pivoted and added a medical division to our domestic manufacturing. I actually haven't tried these masks because we are all still remote, but they are American made.

MedicPro N95 Mask – medicaplus-ppe