Cartel war in Puerto Vallarta today

[jp10558]

Is Marijuana legal in your state? Because what you are suggesting has already played out with pot and it sure hasn't worked out like you suggest and what many states must believe.

Yes. But the issue is it's not in major chains like Wal-Mart because of the federal laws, and they can't use normal banking again I think because of Federal laws.

Yes, it worked with Alcohol for whatever reason, but it sure hasn't worked out with pot.

I'd argue it's because Alcohol is obviously treated differently. Right now all the dispensarys are small local businesses, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but small brewers also don't compete with the economies of scale Bud Lite has as sold through Wal-Mart.

Mexican Cartels absolutely are undercutting the legal price. Keep in mind, they don't have to pay taxes whereas states assume this is going to be a revenue generator like adding a state lottery. It's been tried and it didn't work.

I'm not claiming no one will sell drugs illegally - there are still some people smuggling cigarettes to avoid state taxes. What you don't hear is people blaming alcohol or cigarettes for driving any cartels. I just don't believe that marijuana(or any drug) is somehow magical, just that until the feds allow the scale we have with cigarettes it's not a realistic comparison.

And to defend against a "now you're moving the goalposts" I'm not - my argument was always Wal-Mart national scale Phillip Morris level legal production comparisons. When the local state dispensaries have to operate more like a drug dealer for finance and banking and cannot get regular deliveries from national production facilities or even state wide ones because the fed would shut those down, then obviously they'll be pricing higher than people importing from lower cost production countries and dodging taxes.

I do wonder if consumers feel safer buying from a storefront and that might tip the needle a little towards legal, but this is not a direct comparison to alcohol or cigarettes. If it was, then why wouldn't the cartels sell those cheaper too?

 

[andre10056]

Rather than back patting, perhaps the strategy is to take credit for providing the info so that revenge is not taken on some of the locals that may have been involved.

So you're suggesting that the Americans made it a point to trumpet their involvement as a means to deflect attention from locals that might otherwise have been suspected of being involved. That's certainly possible.

And so Mexican sources and methods were divulged. There might be a greater likelihood of lashing out at American tourists in reprisal. And you warn cartels about American satellite reconnaissance involvement.

It might be nice to be so concerned about Mexican nationals no matter what the cost. But, interestingly, I'm not so sure there would be any deflection of attention on possible snitches. Satellite surveillance, especially to identify when a target might have arrived at a certain location, is the result of very focused surveillance. Some source has told someone that El Mencho oftentimes comes to this or that location. And then the surveillance tries to identify his arrival at that location. So the cartels would know that the successful satellite surveillance succeeded due to snitches in their midst whose information focused the satellite surveillance on that location.

 

[andre10056]

Former federal prosecutor here, which means I've seen a lot of data and research about crime and violence (and, as an aside, there is a ton of great research). There are some obvious and understandable reasons why the cartels are a long-term problem in Mexico.

The No. 1 reason that people turn to crime is lack of economic opportunity combined with a young population. It's not the preferred choice for most young people, but it's a choice they'll take if they don't have a lot of other options. Crime has fallen steadily in the United States over the last 50 years thanks to both steady economic opportunity and an aging population. Where do we see the least improvement? In areas with less economic opportunity (there is a bit of a chicken and egg issue here, but not as much as you might think). The biggest reason drug dealing and other illegal activity continues to thrive in Mexico is that there is a lack of other economic opportunity for a younger population.

Another major factor is the price for committing crime. In America, for example, almost all violent criminals (emphasis on violent) are eventually caught, prosecuted, and sent to jail, with the sentences increasing for repeat offenders and more serious violence. The Mexican criminal justice system is less effective and more corrupt than the American criminal justice system. You are less likely to get caught. If caught, you are often able to bribe your way out of prosecution. Even if prosecuted and sentenced, you are often able to buy your way out of prison. The price for being a criminal is simply lower. Also, the reason why cartels have private armies is, again, because Mexican law enforcement either is incapable of stopping them from doing so or chooses not to. The private armies then make the cartels even more immune from policing and the problem becomes a feedback loop.

Sure, there are ancillary factors (such as American demand for drugs and the fact that America's gun culture pours guns into Mexico), but lack of economic opportunity and a weak Mexican state are the real drivers here.

Sidenote: The discussion of Mexico and Mexican timeshares on this board has tracked a bad trend in American politics over the past 20 years. People tend to pick a side, see everything as black and white, fail to acknowledge that neither side is perfect, and personalize those on the other side as completely wrong and unreasonable. We'd do well to see more nuance in both arenas.

I admit to not knowing what the level of drug dealing may be within Mexico, but the Mexicans that I've met are very anti-illegal-drugs. The cartels are not too popular there (to say the least) and I'd be amazed if Mexican people generally would be inclined to funnel money to them. Especially if they have, as you say, a lack of economic opportunity.

And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels. For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Puerto Vallarta updated
Sunny & 81 F

The airport is again operating [Monday Feb 23]
Most of the flights seem to be domestic - Viva - Volaris - AeroMexico .

The restaurants in the PV Marina are mostly closed - likely due to lack of staff and delivery of supplies.[ I expect more to be open tomorrow]
We did see a few Taxis operating.

Our resort restaurant only has 4 choices today
Burgers - Wings - Chicken Alfredo Pasta -Fish Fillet .

Life is tough
LOL

Tuesday 8:47 local time [Central Std.] Puerto Vallarta
We remain the Puerto Vallarta Marina location

1) We have seen no smoke in the sky for 2 days [ (ie) no cars are be set on fire by local affiliates]
2) Our balcony has a marina view - so we can see street activity & more cars -taxis - delivery vehicles and walkers can be seen.
3) The Soriana Grocery Store at the Marina Plaza was open yesterday - it had a long line up because they were only allowing 15 shoppers in at a time
[This may have been due to staffing / and or corporate or government instructions]
4) Some international flight have resumed. Late afternoon a United Flight took off to San Francisco
[ due to our location near the airport we can see and hear departing flights / and then check them on a flight tracker app]

Life appears to be returning toward a normal rhythm in Puerto Vallarta Jalisco Mexico

 

[DebBrown]

Years ago we had our first and only trip to Mazatlán. We could hear gunshots from our hotel. One morning we were meeting for a tour and there was tape and boarded up windows at the US embassy. Bodies had been dumped on the steps earlier that morning. It was unsettling but on a much smaller scale than this recent violence.

 

[ondeadlin]

I admit to not knowing what the level of drug dealing may be within Mexico, but the Mexicans that I've met are very anti-illegal-drugs. The cartels are not too popular there (to say the least) and I'd be amazed if Mexican people generally would be inclined to funnel money to them. Especially if they have, as you say, a lack of economic opportunity.

And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels. For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.

Anecdotal evidence (i.e. who we talk to) is not data. All countries have drug and substance abuse problems. China has a drug problem, but they have an authoritarian government that orders the media not to talk about it, so you don't see reporting about it. Same with Russia.

 

[andre10056]

Anecdotal evidence (i.e. who we talk to) is not data. All countries have drug and substance abuse problems. China has a drug problem, but they have an authoritarian government that orders the media not to talk about it, so you don't see reporting about it. Same with Russia.

Of course. But my question is what the level of substance abuse may be.

 

[jp10558]

And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels.

I doubt most people buying drugs are buying them like girl scout cookies thinking "Oh boy, I get my product AND I get to support cartels!"

For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.

Which is another great reason to legalize and provide alternate options to redirect that money. Ethical consumption arguments fail under capitalism, and doubly fail for something people need or are addicted to. Maybe you might convince people to "Buy American" if it was on offer and not 5x the price or something, but telling people to go without fails and has for a century.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Tuesday -11:40 am Feb 24
PV Airport News: An American Airlines flight to Dallas just departed
[ we heard the departure & checked the flight tracker app]

It appears American has resumed flights into / out of Puerto Vallarta
Southwest to Denver also departed at 11am