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Cartel war in Puerto Vallarta today

Rather than back patting, perhaps the strategy is to take credit for providing the info so that revenge is not taken on some of the locals that may have been involved.
So you're suggesting that the Americans made it a point to trumpet their involvement as a means to deflect attention from locals that might otherwise have been suspected of being involved. That's certainly possible.

And so Mexican sources and methods were divulged. There might be a greater likelihood of lashing out at American tourists in reprisal. And you warn cartels about American satellite reconnaissance involvement.

It might be nice to be so concerned about Mexican nationals no matter what the cost. But, interestingly, I'm not so sure there would be any deflection of attention on possible snitches. Satellite surveillance, especially to identify when a target might have arrived at a certain location, is the result of very focused surveillance. Some source has told someone that El Mencho oftentimes comes to this or that location. And then the surveillance tries to identify his arrival at that location. So the cartels would know that the successful satellite surveillance succeeded due to snitches in their midst whose information focused the satellite surveillance on that location.
 
Former federal prosecutor here, which means I've seen a lot of data and research about crime and violence (and, as an aside, there is a ton of great research). There are some obvious and understandable reasons why the cartels are a long-term problem in Mexico.

The No. 1 reason that people turn to crime is lack of economic opportunity combined with a young population. It's not the preferred choice for most young people, but it's a choice they'll take if they don't have a lot of other options. Crime has fallen steadily in the United States over the last 50 years thanks to both steady economic opportunity and an aging population. Where do we see the least improvement? In areas with less economic opportunity (there is a bit of a chicken and egg issue here, but not as much as you might think). The biggest reason drug dealing and other illegal activity continues to thrive in Mexico is that there is a lack of other economic opportunity for a younger population.

Another major factor is the price for committing crime. In America, for example, almost all violent criminals (emphasis on violent) are eventually caught, prosecuted, and sent to jail, with the sentences increasing for repeat offenders and more serious violence. The Mexican criminal justice system is less effective and more corrupt than the American criminal justice system. You are less likely to get caught. If caught, you are often able to bribe your way out of prosecution. Even if prosecuted and sentenced, you are often able to buy your way out of prison. The price for being a criminal is simply lower. Also, the reason why cartels have private armies is, again, because Mexican law enforcement either is incapable of stopping them from doing so or chooses not to. The private armies then make the cartels even more immune from policing and the problem becomes a feedback loop.

Sure, there are ancillary factors (such as American demand for drugs and the fact that America's gun culture pours guns into Mexico), but lack of economic opportunity and a weak Mexican state are the real drivers here.

Sidenote: The discussion of Mexico and Mexican timeshares on this board has tracked a bad trend in American politics over the past 20 years. People tend to pick a side, see everything as black and white, fail to acknowledge that neither side is perfect, and personalize those on the other side as completely wrong and unreasonable. We'd do well to see more nuance in both arenas.
I admit to not knowing what the level of drug dealing may be within Mexico, but the Mexicans that I've met are very anti-illegal-drugs. The cartels are not too popular there (to say the least) and I'd be amazed if Mexican people generally would be inclined to funnel money to them. Especially if they have, as you say, a lack of economic opportunity.

And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels. For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.
 
Puerto Vallarta updated
Sunny & 81 F ☀️⛱️

The airport is again operating [Monday Feb 23]
Most of the flights seem to be domestic - Viva - Volaris - AeroMexico .

The restaurants in the PV Marina are mostly closed - likely due to lack of staff and delivery of supplies.[ I expect more to be open tomorrow]
We did see a few Taxis operating.

Our resort restaurant only has 4 choices today
Burgers - Wings - Chicken Alfredo Pasta -Fish Fillet .

Life is tough🌴🌮
LOL
Tuesday 8:47 local time [Central Std.] Puerto Vallarta
We remain the Puerto Vallarta Marina location

1) We have seen no smoke in the sky for 2 days [ (ie) no cars are be set on fire by local affiliates]
2) Our balcony has a marina view - so we can see street activity & more cars -taxis - delivery vehicles and walkers can be seen.
3) The Soriana Grocery Store at the Marina Plaza was open yesterday - it had a long line up because they were only allowing 15 shoppers in at a time
[This may have been due to staffing / and or corporate or government instructions]
4) Some international flight have resumed. Late afternoon a United Flight took off to San Francisco
[ due to our location near the airport we can see and hear departing flights / and then check them on a flight tracker app]

Life appears to be returning toward a normal rhythm in Puerto Vallarta Jalisco Mexico
 
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Years ago we had our first and only trip to Mazatlán. We could hear gunshots from our hotel. One morning we were meeting for a tour and there was tape and boarded up windows at the US embassy. Bodies had been dumped on the steps earlier that morning. It was unsettling but on a much smaller scale than this recent violence.
 
I admit to not knowing what the level of drug dealing may be within Mexico, but the Mexicans that I've met are very anti-illegal-drugs. The cartels are not too popular there (to say the least) and I'd be amazed if Mexican people generally would be inclined to funnel money to them. Especially if they have, as you say, a lack of economic opportunity.

And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels. For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.

Anecdotal evidence (i.e. who we talk to) is not data. All countries have drug and substance abuse problems. China has a drug problem, but they have an authoritarian government that orders the media not to talk about it, so you don't see reporting about it. Same with Russia.
 
Anecdotal evidence (i.e. who we talk to) is not data. All countries have drug and substance abuse problems. China has a drug problem, but they have an authoritarian government that orders the media not to talk about it, so you don't see reporting about it. Same with Russia.
Of course. But my question is what the level of substance abuse may be.
 
And yet relatively affluent Americans apparently ARE willing to funnel money to the cartels.
I doubt most people buying drugs are buying them like girl scout cookies thinking "Oh boy, I get my product AND I get to support cartels!"
For every drug they buy illegally (I was going to say "for every illegal drug they buy" but I don't want to hear how fentanyl and opiates, under certain circumstances, are legal), there's a good chance they've just enriched the cartels.
Which is another great reason to legalize and provide alternate options to redirect that money. Ethical consumption arguments fail under capitalism, and doubly fail for something people need or are addicted to. Maybe you might convince people to "Buy American" if it was on offer and not 5x the price or something, but telling people to go without fails and has for a century.
 
Tuesday -11:40 am Feb 24
PV Airport News: An American Airlines flight to Dallas just departed
[ we heard the departure & checked the flight tracker app]

It appears American has resumed flights into / out of Puerto Vallarta
Southwest to Denver also departed at 11am
 
Please be extremely careful when visiting Mexico..Cartels have no problem killing everyday citizens or tourists to exact revenge whenever “perceived problems” arise and things don’t go their way…
 
Please be extremely careful when visiting Mexico..Cartels have no problem killing everyday citizens or tourists to exact revenge whenever “perceived problems” arise and things don’t go their way…
From what I have read so far, and I probably haven't read all that has been written, of all the deaths, one was civilian (taxi driver) and the others cartel or soldiers/gov't.
 
From what I have read so far, and I probably haven't read all that has been written, of all the deaths, one was civilian (taxi driver) and the others cartel or soldiers/gov't.
I also heard 25 members of the Mexican National Guard. If that is true, then my heart and sympathy go out to the friends and family members of the MNG.
 
Tuesday 8:47 local time [Central Std.] Puerto Vallarta
We remain the Puerto Vallarta Marina location

1) We have seen no smoke in the sky for 2 days [ (ie) no cars are be set on fire by local affiliates]
2) Our balcony has a marina view - so we can see street activity & more cars -taxis - delivery vehicles and walkers can be seen.
3) The Soriana Grocery Store at the Marina Plaza was open yesterday - it had a long line up because they were only allowing 15 shoppers in at a time
[This may have been due to staffing / and or corporate or government instructions]
4) Some international flight have resumed. Late afternoon a United Flight took off to San Francisco
[ due to our location near the airport we can see and hear departing flights / and then check them on a flight tracker app]

Life appears to be returning toward a normal rhythm in Puerto Vallarta Jalisco Mexico

We have a couple of friends who bought condos on the hill above the 5th of December area. They have reported things are cooling off and things are back to normal for them. They just posted a video of the Marigallante setting off fireworks at the Malecon.

Bill
 
@easyrider -I fully agree with your friend's report.

We have seen the Mexican Military display it's presence as a sign of stability.
Tuesday:[Feb 24] a military helicopter circled the marina a couple of hundred yards off the ground.
Monday :[Feb 23] a small military ship was stationary offshore for part of the afternoon.I assume it was from Naval Station adjacent to the PV Cruise Terminal

Alarmists may see this as a sign of instability. I see this as the Mexican Government showing it's continued management of the situation triggered by their
well planned removal of the head of the CJNG criminal organization.
We have a couple of friends who bought condos on the hill above the 5th of December area. They have reported things are cooling off and things are back to normal for them. They just posted a video of the Marigallante setting off fireworks at the Malecon.

Bill
The pirate ship Marigallante resuming normal cruises and fireworks is welcomed part of the Puerto Vallarta evening.
 
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Weds Feb 25-8 am : PV Airport Update for yesterday

On Tuesday : over 35 scheduled flights departed to the USA - including Alaska to New York [for those who wanted to return to snow]
On Tuesday : Westjet flights to Canada resumed / Air Canada , Porters & AirTransat had flights depart [ Flair is unclear]
On Tuesday : Mexican domestic airlines - Aeromexico - Viva & Volaris all had departures

Most incoming Weds flights arrive after 10 am

Today's PV Weather
8 am - Sunny & 67 F with an afternoon high of 81 F
 
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I also heard 25 members of the Mexican National Guard. If that is true, then my heart and sympathy go out to the friends and family members of the MNG.
Yes, that is a tragedy and heartache for them and their families. But, I was responding to the comment about "killing everyday citizens and tourists" which is not happening.
 
Yes, that is a tragedy and heartache for them and their families. But, I was responding to the comment about "killing everyday citizens and tourists" which is not happening.
Please read my post again…I never said it was happening at this point…my statement was”cartels have no problem killing everyday citizens or tourists to exact revenge”..etc…never said that was happening during THIS LATEST tragedy.
 
cartels have no problem killing everyday citizens or tourists to exact revenge

This has always been true. Cartels do kill Mexican citizens which are their primary targets in their endeavors in Mexico. Cartels have killed other than Mexicans for reasons related to Cartel activities only for the most part.

Cartels don't target tourists and are not targeting tourists now. When Cartel violence occurs in a tourist area, a tourist could get caught up in the crossfire, but it's an extremely rare scenario.

With this recent Cartel attack in Puerto Vallarta, no tourists were harmed even though many were caught in the areas of chaos.

Undoubtedly, this event will disrupt tourism to Mexico which to a timeshare rental person might suggest reservations for rentals for Mexico might not go as well in 2027. It also suggests that if a person wanted to go to a Mexican resort in 2027 there might be some really good deals.

Bill
 
I agree 100% with your last paragraph….that being said,as far as I’m concerned i would never vacation in Mexico…no matter how inexpensive the Mexico vacation would be…there are many other choices in the Caribbean that imo..are more desirable..probably more expensive…but worth it.
 
I agree 100% with your last paragraph….that being said,as far as I’m concerned i would never vacation in Mexico…no matter how inexpensive the Mexico vacation would be…there are many other choices in the Caribbean that imo..are more desirable..probably more expensive…but worth it.

Your sentiment is nothing new. You share the sentiment of many tourists that have always avoided Mexico, especially when an event like this hits the news. I use to think like you maybe 25+ years ago. Since then we have been going to Mexico often, usually staying for multiple weeks. I've never felt unsafe in Mexico but because many do after an event like this I'm thinking 2027 is going to be less tourists in Mexico which is ok by me for many reasons.

Bill
 
There were no real issues at the Vidanta in NV, other than a few restaurants were not open for 2 days. (Those were the pricier ones that we were not planning to check out anyway!)

We flew back to Phoenix yesterday with no issues. We were doing a Friday to Friday trip this time. AA put the after-burners on and we made it back 20 minutes early!

I will be back in PV for 3 weeks in November! :)
 
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