Buying more Sheraton Flex Points

[Tim.Vaughn]

Hi - I already own Sheraton Flex points. I'd like to have more so I can spend more time on vacation. I am looking at RedWeek and there are listings for more Flex points for a fraction of the cost to buy the points directly from Vistana. Would the points just add to the pile I already have and I would have the same rights? Or, since I buying them from a previous owner my rights would be limited? Can someone point me to more info about this type of transaction?

 

[dioxide45]

They would add to the already existing pile with an important caveat. You can't use the resale points to book at all Vistana properties inside of 8 months. You could only use them to book at the Sheraton collection of properties that exist inside Sheraton Flex or exchange them through Interval International. You would be better to be on the lookout for a resale mandatory deeded week that comes with StarOptions. It will cost more than Sheraton Flex, which has $0 resale value, but will be better in the long run. Any Sheraton Flex that you see selling for much more than $0 is likely over priced.

 

[Tim.Vaughn]

They would add to the already existing pile with an important caveat. You can't use the resale points to book at all Vistana properties inside of 8 months. You could only use them to book at the Sheraton collection of properties that exist inside Sheraton Flex or exchange them through Interval International. You would be better to be on the lookout for a resale mandatory deeded week that comes with StarOptions. It will cost more than Sheraton Flex, which has $0 resale value, but will be better in the long run. Any Sheraton Flex that you see selling for much more than $0 is likely over priced.

Thanks for your response. I don't understand some of the terminology you use so let me see if I am fully understanding your response. It sounds like this is a bad move so I won't be making this purchase. I am just trying to understand what you're saying.

The resale points would only be useable at the "Sheraton collection of properties". Are these Vistana, Vistana Villages, Desert Oasis, Broadway Plantation, Kaua'i Resort, Vistana Beach Club, Mountain Vista, and Steamboat Resort?

"inside of 8 months" - I could not book at any property within 8 months of the travel dates? or, I can only book within 8 months at the Sheraton collection of properties?

"resale mandatory deeded week that comes with Star Option" - a deeded week is for a particular week of each year, right? how would that also come with StarOptions? where does that type of thing come on sale?

 

[dioxide45]

I put in a request to move your thread to the Vistana forum. I suspect it isn't getting a lot of attention here because Buying/Selling/Renting is a more generic forum.

Thanks for your response. I don't understand some of the terminology you use so let me see if I am fully understanding your response. It sounds like this is a bad move so I won't be making this purchase. I am just trying to understand what you're saying.

Yes, generally probably not the best move to make. Do much more research before proceeding with Sheraton Flex resale.

The resale points would only be useable at the "Sheraton collection of properties". Are these Vistana, Vistana Villages, Desert Oasis, Broadway Plantation, Kaua'i Resort, Vistana Beach Club, Mountain Vista, and Steamboat Resort?

"inside of 8 months" - I could not book at any property within 8 months of the travel dates? or, I can only book within 8 months at the Sheraton collection of properties?

You would only ever be able to use it at those Sheraton properties. You would still be able to book inside of 8 months, but you couldn't combined them with the StarOptions that your developer bought weeks become to book Westin properties.

"resale mandatory deeded week that comes with Star Option" - a deeded week is for a particular week of each year, right? how would that also come with StarOptions? where does that type of thing come on sale?

Correct. A few resorts/phases where if you buy a resale deeded week you also get StarOptions. This would better align with your Sheraton Flex HomeOptions for more seamless reservations. You wouldn't be able to combined the points from a mandatory resale week with your HomeOptions between 12-8 months, but inside 8 months they would all work together.

Here are the mandatory resorts

• The Westin Kierland Villas
• Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella and Key West Phases only
• Harborside Resort at Atlantis
• The Westin Kaanapali Resort Villas
• The Westin Kaanapali Resort Villas North
• The Westin St John (Virgin Grand only)

 

[Eric B]

I put in a request to move your thread to the Vistana forum. I suspect it isn't getting a lot of attention here because Buying/Selling/Renting is a more generic forum.


Yes, generally probably not the best move to make. Do much more research before proceeding with Sheraton Flex resale.


You would only ever be able to use it at those Sheraton properties. You would still be able to book inside of 8 months, but you couldn't combined them with the StarOptions that your developer bought weeks become to book Westin properties.



Correct. A few resorts/phases where if you buy a resale deeded week you also get StarOptions. This would better align with your Sheraton Flex HomeOptions for more seamless reservations. You wouldn't be able to combined the points from a mandatory resale week with your HomeOptions between 12-8 months, but inside 8 months they would all work together.

Here are the mandatory resorts

• The Westin Kierland Villas
• Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella and Key West Phases only
• Harborside Resort at Atlantis
• The Westin Kaanapali Resort Villas
• The Westin Kaanapali Resort Villas North
• The Westin St John (Hillside only)

• The Westin St John (Hillside only) = Virgin Grand

 

[dioxide45]

• The Westin St John (Hillside only) = Virgin Grand

Thanks for noting that. I had thought that and had that in my post as I was typing it out. Then I checked the stickies and it just indicated Hillside, so I went with that. I have updated my post.

 

[Sicnarf]

They would add to the already existing pile with an important caveat. You can't use the resale points to book at all Vistana properties inside of 8 months. You could only use them to book at the Sheraton collection of properties that exist inside Sheraton Flex or exchange them through Interval International. You would be better to be on the lookout for a resale mandatory deeded week that comes with StarOptions. It will cost more than Sheraton Flex, which has $0 resale value, but will be better in the long run. Any Sheraton Flex that you see selling for much more than $0 is likely over priced.

I disagree that Sheraton Flex has $0 value. Having access to Steamboat, Beaver Creek, Kauai, etc with 1 year booking priority, and ability to book days and check in any day has value in my book!

 

[dioxide45]

I disagree that Sheraton Flex has $0 value. Having access to Steamboat, Beaver Creek, Kauai, etc with 1 year booking priority, and ability to book days and check in any day has value in my book!

Not saying there if no value in its usage, but you can usually buy get these on the resale market for next to nothing.

 

[kozykritter]

Thanks for your response. I don't understand some of the terminology you use so let me see if I am fully understanding your response. It sounds like this is a bad move so I won't be making this purchase. I am just trying to understand what you're saying.

The resale points would only be useable at the "Sheraton collection of properties". Are these Vistana, Vistana Villages, Desert Oasis, Broadway Plantation, Kaua'i Resort, Vistana Beach Club, Mountain Vista, and Steamboat Resort?

"inside of 8 months" - I could not book at any property within 8 months of the travel dates? or, I can only book within 8 months at the Sheraton collection of properties?

"resale mandatory deeded week that comes with Star Option" - a deeded week is for a particular week of each year, right? how would that also come with StarOptions? where does that type of thing come on sale?

One other thing to consider is Vistana has ROFR in place for all Flex product resales. What that means is that if they're not happy with the price you are buying it for they can step into the sale and buy it instead. You go through all the hassle and you end up with nothing. I doubt that Vistana views a Sheraton Flex resale to be worth $0 so logically they would step in but I can't speak to the actual experience buyers have had trying to purchase at $0. A sale at that price is more about benefiting the seller so that they can get out of the obligation of the maintenance fees whether it's with you or Vistana taking it away.

 

[VacationForever]

I think I have read on TUG several resale Flex being bought for $1. I don't know if Sheraton Flex has ROFR, is it documented?

 

[kozykritter]

It does. I'm sure shortly someone will post the exact language like always. I asked the sales people when I bought it if it had it and they were shocked at the question because they had to admit that it did have ROFR, something they prefer not to dwell on of course.

 

[dioxide45]

It does. I'm sure shortly someone will post the exact language like always. I asked the sales people when I bought it if it had it and they were shocked at the question because they had to admit that it did have ROFR, something they prefer not to dwell on of course.

Sales reps like to bring up ROFR to people who ask why they shouldn't just buy resale. They use ROFR as a way to make prospective buyers think that Vistana will buy back cheap Flex VOIs. Based on what I have seen, it doesn't seem that Vistana is actively taking back Flex via ROFR. I need to work on getting this added to the database.

 

[kozykritter]

I think I have read on TUG several resale Flex being bought for $1. I don't know if Sheraton Flex has ROFR, is it documented?

Not the contract language but first hand verification from someone who read it...

Buying Sheraton Flex Resale-ROFR?

I am looking to pick up Sheraton Flex (resale) very cheap for Steamboat Sheraton for winter ski weeks as it is virtually impossible to get winter ski weeks there unless you book 12 months out. Deeded Sheraton Steamboat properties are very, very rare as only the first 24 units were deeded and...

tugbbs.com

 

[CPNY]

Sales reps like to bring up ROFR to people who ask why they shouldn't just buy resale. They use ROFR as a way to make prospective buyers think that Vistana will buy back cheap Flex VOIs. Based on what I have seen, it doesn't seem that Vistana is actively taking back Flex via ROFR. I need to work on getting this added to the database.

Something tells me they might start. Assuming the repurchased flex can then be moved into another trust (if that can legally happen)

 

[dioxide45]

Something tells me they might start. Assuming the repurchased flex can then be moved into another trust (if that can legally happen)

Flex is messy because it is already part of a trust. Moving declared inventory out may not be so easy. The amount of inventory in Flex is small compared to inventory still in weeks ownership. I suspect they would be more aggressive with ROFR on whatever weeks they can do so on and actively offer buybacks and deed backs for resorts without ROFR.

 

[wjarcher]

I remember I've read somewhere in this forum in the past that Sheraton flex had a lot of defaults (which had partially contributed to their past MF increase). I got my biennial from a TUG ad as a giveaway (I paid the closing though). I've seen some ebay listings for a very large point contact (like over 300k points) that went for less than a few hundred bucks with a free usage year during COVID. The supply might go down now that the owners have option to elect DPs.

 

[jabberwocky]

Keep in mind that even though Flex is voluntary and loses SO, it could be brought back in with a retro purchase. If you are able to pick up a large enough resale package for next to nothing it might make sense to retro it in with a small additional developer package, particularly if it would then convert into DC points.

For example, if you could grab a 148,100 for free and then pay $10k for a 44,000 package to retro it in, that would convert to around 6000 DC points (ballpark figures here). You’d essentially then qualify as a 3* and supposedly get Bonvoy Plat status. Plus your buy-in cost would be under $2/DC point. Much cheaper than even trying to buy into the MVC points system resale.

 

[VacationForever]

Keep in mind that even though Flex is voluntary and loses SO, it could be brought back in with a retro purchase. If you are able to pick up a large enough resale package for next to nothing it might make sense to retro it in with a small additional developer package, particularly if it would then convert into DC points.

For example, if you could grab a 148,100 for free and then pay $10k for a 44,000 package to retro it in, that would convert to around 6000 DC points (ballpark figures here). You’d essentially then qualify as a 3* and supposedly get Bonvoy Plat status. Plus your buy-in cost would be under $2/DC point. Much cheaper than even trying to buy into the MVC points system resale.

Excellent analysis. I've not thought about low cost per point if done this way. I do wonder if you pick up a cheap/free Sheraton Flex now, the duration it takes to close and whether MVC will still allow retro for $10K. Right now, on the MVC end, they only allow purchase of 3000 DC points to retro one week.

 

[CPNY]

Excellent analysis. I've not thought about low cost per point if done this way. I do wonder if you pick up a cheap/free Sheraton Flex now, the duration it takes to close and whether MVC will still allow retro for $10K. Right now, on the MVC end, they only allow purchase of 3000 DC points to retro one week.

Probably not enough time but it depends on your closing agent. I can see the retro threshold increasing come June if not earlier. Flex can be a great way in, but so can an SDO resale week or another voluntary resort resale week with a lower MF.

 

[Venter]

My experience is with Sheraton Flex and Westin Flex.
A couple of years ago I acquired 110 000 EOY Sheraton Flex points for free and Vistana did not step in.
In the last year I had Vistana step in on 56 000 Westin Flex points for $380 ish. I then tried to acquire 81 000 EY Westin Flex points by making offers and the seller did not want less than $8000 because he did not think it would pass ROFR below that level. That was too rich for me so I passed. I won an EBay auction for 112 000 (I know, weird number) EY Westin Flex for $2500 all in. That was about four weeks ago. I have not heard back from the transfer company if ROFR was exercised or not. I have a feeling it could have been but am keeping my fingers crossed.
I have not seen any evidence that Flex has been passing low ROFR recently and suspect that if you want to pass ROFR on Flex options the days of free packages are behind us and one may have to offer a few thousand on large points packages. I thought 56 000 is a small package and would fly under the radar but it obviously did not. Maybe smaller packages or EOY might and maybe it depends if it is for Sheraton, Aventuras or Westin Flex whether Vistana will take it back.
As in some of my cases it is apparent that when a company starts to exercise their ROFR right that prices then adjust upward a bit as prospective resale buyers will have to try and find the level where said company thinks it is not profitable to buy back.

I also value the availability to book 12 months out for 1-14 days and think there is some worth in it. There has been some anecdotal feedback on Tug that those definitely impossible times to book have been done, although not frequently.

 

[dioxide45]

Probably not enough time but it depends on your closing agent. I can see the retro threshold increasing come June if not earlier. Flex can be a great way in, but so can an SDO resale week or another voluntary resort resale week with a lower MF.

Certainly not enough time. It is taking Vistana at least 8 weeks just to complete the transfer internally. It would have to close within about a week to make any cutoff that we do or don't know exists.

 

[CPNY]

Certainly not enough time. It is taking Vistana at least 8 weeks just to complete the transfer internally. It would have to close within about a week to make any cutoff that we do or don't know exists.

If 2010 is an indication, the deed would have to be recorded prior to any official rollout. I’m closing on a unit now, I hope it transfers in enough time.

 

[dioxide45]

If 2010 is an indication, the deed would have to be recorded prior to any official rollout. I’m closing on a unit now, I hope it transfers in enough time.

Hope it works out, doesn't the USVI take forever to get recordings done? Kind of like the Bahamas?

 

[CPNY]

Hope it works out, doesn't the USVI take forever to get recordings done? Kind of like the Bahamas?

I picked up a WKV lol I would have taken a WSJ if someone gave me one for free lol if I eventually get a WSJ, it would be to use there and not trade into the DCE

 

[dioxide45]

I picked up a WKV lol I would have taken a WSJ if someone gave me one for free lol if I eventually get a WSJ, it would be to use there and not trade into the DCE

That's right, good too. Maricopa County should be doing erecordings, so that should help things along.