Best way for Vistana Owner to own MVC Club Points....or should they

[M Wyo]

We own Vistana Desert Willow and Sheraton Flex. Now that Vistana and Marriott has "co-mingled" through ABOUND (finally), we thought this would bring a new opportunity to vacation at MVC properties. But Marriott seems to have ingeniously structured the program (ABOUND) to slowly "strangle" Vistana Owners into eventually having to purchase club points to be able to get access to properties at desired times if at all. I will be the last person to claim I am an expert at utilizing MVC and Vistana optimally. But I am also not a novice. At every owner update, they are they are now trying to sell us MVC Club points. Latest: trade in our two Sheraton flex contacts (worth 2775 Club Points on ABOUND) for 4250 MVC Club Trust Points. Plus 2000 Bonus Plus Points for 2024 all in for $16.8k. Maintenance fees go from ~$2100 for $3300 for 2024. So why would/should we do this. The relationship between the exchange and Trust market is what they push at every owner update. And I am now seeing the issue. Clearly availability at anything outside our home properties is deminishing. And availability at properties at MVC at desirable periods are few if not non-existent, even if looking 13 months out (We are not interested in Grande Ocean in January. There is NO availability at Los Suenos ever.) . And, not having access to the MVC website is a pain. Nobody can tell me how to access the full foglio of MVC "experiences" if you are an ABOUND/Vistana user.

So my question is this.....if you are a VISTANA Owner, are you eventually going to need to buy MVC Trust points assuming you want to vacation somewhere besides your home resort. And, is the deal I am describing above a good deal?

I have thick skin....so criticism is taken constructively. Thank you in advance.

 

[Eric B]

There is NO availability at Los Suenos ever

Just finished a week at Los Suenos booked with Abound points from my Vistana ownership. I do not own anything on the MVC side of Abound. I was able to piece together the week by looking for availability a day at a time and adding the days as they became available, first in a studio but I was able to switch to a 1 BR for each of my three separate consecutive reservations at the 61-day mark. I never saw any availability there for an entire week at one time and am approaching it the same way for next year, having managed to get 3 days out of the week I'm looking for in November. While I'm admittedly looking for shoulder (Gold) season availability, I've also seem piecemeal availability in the high demand (Platinum) season there. Bottom line is that I have been able to find decent uses for my Vistana Abound-elected points, including booking Los Suenos and Ritz Carlton St Thomas by frequently checking.

I might consider picking up deeded week ownership in MVC but don't see any need to pick up Trust points. From what I've read in this forum, there is no practical difference between Abound exchange points and trust points as far as the availability goes despite what the sales folks may say. Unless it's a brand new resort that was never sold as deeded weeks, any particular resort in the system will be more difficult to reserve using Abound or Trust points than it is using a deeded week, particularly at a small resort like Los Suenos (which is sold as deeded weeks, BTW).

I can't speak to whether the deal you described is a good deal - that's a determination you'll have to make for yourself based on your needs and the value of the Sheraton flex to you for your own use now either as Home Options or through the VSN. Trading that in will eliminate your ability to use them in VSN if you have it now and should be taken into account along with the comparative MF/Abound point ratio. As far as picking up Trust Points goes, I've seen many available on the resale market that would give you the same utility after paying the junk fees so you'd have to compare the total buy in costs to figure out which is best - from what I've read the resale costs are generally a better deal. It sure would be a shame to spend that much and then find out that it doesn't change your ability to reserve what you're trying to reserve, which seems to be what the conventional wisdom here indicates.

 

[Hindsite]

And, not having access to the MVC website is a pain. Nobody can tell me how to access the full foglio of MVC "experiences" if you are an ABOUND/Vistana user.

You can access the MVC Abound reservation portal via your VSN dashboard, and you don't have to have elected points to see availability. You can go as far down as resort, unit size, number of days, view type and check-in day to see what is available. You don't need to do anything to access the full folio of MVC Experiences, other than go and look.
Sales spin a lie that exchange club points don't give you access to the full inventory in Abound. Next time they say that, ask them to prove it, they'll decline as the points work for reservations the same no matter what the source. This is a long term lie that they have spun to MVC weeks owners since the points system was launched in 2010.
Abound inventory is released in a number of different ways: around 50% at the 13 month mark for MVC properties and the rest, plus Sheraton and Westin at 12 months. Any inventory which cannot be held in the MVC land trust only gets into Abound if put there specifically by owners (who include MVC). Los Suenos is a very small resort that was sold as weeks so has no inventory held permanently in the trust. That's why its difficult to find, no because you haven't paid for Trust points.
I can see no reason why you should have to buy Trust points now or in the future, unless using them suits you. If it does then buy resale as they can be enrolled so they work just the same as the MVC bought ones but for less than half the cost. It hasn't been necessary for the tens of thousands of enrolled MVC weeks owners so no need for it to be the case for Vistana owners.

 

[jmhpsu93]

What is your WDW week worth in Abound? If it's above 2750 (and it's eligible for the Abound program) then that will get you to Executive, which is the best tier jump in the system. Worth $15K all-in (after the incentives)? Maybe.

 

[mjm1]

We own Vistana Desert Willow and Sheraton Flex. Now that Vistana and Marriott has "co-mingled" through ABOUND (finally), we thought this would bring a new opportunity to vacation at MVC properties. But Marriott seems to have ingeniously structured the program (ABOUND) to slowly "strangle" Vistana Owners into eventually having to purchase club points to be able to get access to properties at desired times if at all. I will be the last person to claim I am an expert at utilizing MVC and Vistana optimally. But I am also not a novice. At every owner update, they are they are now trying to sell us MVC Club points. Latest: trade in our two Sheraton flex contacts (worth 2775 Club Points on ABOUND) for 4250 MVC Club Trust Points. Plus 2000 Bonus Plus Points for 2024 all in for $16.8k. Maintenance fees go from ~$2100 for $3300 for 2024. So why would/should we do this. The relationship between the exchange and Trust market is what they push at every owner update. And I am now seeing the issue. Clearly availability at anything outside our home properties is deminishing. And availability at properties at MVC at desirable periods are few if not non-existent, even if looking 13 months out (We are not interested in Grande Ocean in January. There is NO availability at Los Suenos ever.) . And, not having access to the MVC website is a pain. Nobody can tell me how to access the full foglio of MVC "experiences" if you are an ABOUND/Vistana user.

So my question is this.....if you are a VISTANA Owner, are you eventually going to need to buy MVC Trust points assuming you want to vacation somewhere besides your home resort. And, is the deal I am describing above a good deal?

I have thick skin....so criticism is taken constructively. Thank you in advance.

We are Vistana and MVC owners and we’re offered a similar deal. We passed on it as well. If you really want Abound points you can buy them resale and save a lot of money. Once you pay the junk fees to MVC the points work the same as if bought from MVC.

 

[M Wyo]

What is your WDW week worth in Abound? If it's above 2750 (and it's eligible for the Abound program) then that will get you to Executive, which is the best tier jump in the system. Worth $15K all-in (after the incentives)? Maybe.

3725....we are grandfathered Executive. Thanks!

 

[Eric B]

3725....we are grandfathered Executive. Thanks!

Keep in mind that you are grandfathered Executive based upon the ownerships you held when Vistana was integrated in Abound. Trading in the Sheraton Flex ownerships would involve transferring them from you - that is a triggering event for terminating the grandfathering. Adding 4,250 Trust points would give you 7,975 points total and keep you as Executive, but no longer grandfathered; if you were to buy 1,500 resale Trust points to get to the same general amount, you would have the option of selling those resale points without affecting your membership recognition level because it wouldn't change your 3-star recognition eligibility as of June 30, 2022. On the other hand, you would not be eligible to continue as a "grandfathered elite member" under the VSN rules if you were to subsequently want to sell any of the Trust points you got by trading in the Flex and it got you below the 7,000 point mark, which seems fairly likely.

Here's the pertinent part of the VSN rules for mandatory resorts that covers that (Section VIII, middle portion of paragraph 8.2 - underlining added to operative portion):

Notwithstanding the foregoing however, unless and until advised otherwise by Network Operator, Network Members that do not hold enough Abound Exchange Points to qualify as Executive Members but were recognized on June 30, 2022 under the Network’s previous membership recognition program as “3-Star Elite” shall be deemed Executive Members; Network Members that do not hold enough Abound Exchange Points to qualify as Presidential Members but were recognized on June 30, 2022 as “4-Star Elite” shall be deemed Presidential Members; and Network Members that do not hold enough Abound Exchange Points to qualify as Chairman’s Club Members but were recognized on June 30, 2022 as “5-Star Elite” shall be deemed Chairman’s Club Members (such former 3-Star, 4-Star and 5-Star Elite members collectively being referred to hereinafter as “Grandfathered Elite Members”). The criteria required to render a Network Member eligible to become a Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member may be revised by Network Operator from time to time and Network Operator reserves the right to eliminate or add any ownership recognition levels or benefits and privileges as Network Operator may determine in its sole discretion. In the event the minimum number of Abound Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is raised above the number of Abound Exchange Points allocated a Network Member’s VOIs at any given time, the Network Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year in which the Network Member no longer meets the respective Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility requirements. If the Network Member purchases VOIs with sufficient Abound Exchange Points to reestablish Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility prior to the end of such calendar year, the Network Member shall maintain eligibility to be a Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member, as applicable. In the event that (i) the minimum number of Abound Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is greater than the number of Abound Exchange Points allocated to a Network Member’s VOIs due to the transfer of any of Network Member’s VOIs, or (ii) a Grandfathered Elite Member transfers one or more VOIs and as a result would no longer have qualified as 3-Star, 4-Star or 5-Star Elite on June 30, 2022, then the Network Member’s eligibility to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members shall end on the last date of the use year for the transferred VOI. For example, if the VOI is transferred with a 2024 Use Year, then the prior member’s benefit level status will end December 31, 2023.

The voluntary VSN rules should be similar but I haven't checked them.

 

[Venter]

Something else to consider is if you ever want to rid of your Sheraton flex points you will get $0 for them. You already had the initial outlay though. Should you get to sell the 4250 Trust points you will get $12000 for them at the current resale rates that make it through ROFR. It could be less or $0 as well though as we never know what will happen. MVW may up the cost to clean resale points to $4/point which would then most likely affect resale prices downwards.

It appears as if you would be getting 1975 points extra from the deal. If you had to buy these retail it would now cost about $32 000. Resale the cost would be about $10 000.

If you buy 67 000 Sheraton Flex points that would convert to 1975 Abound points the MF would be about $1400. Your MF's would therefore be more for Sheraton Flex when converted to Abound than if you just owned abound. Resale you would not get anything for the Sheraton Flex. I'm not sure what the last ask was per point for Sheraton Flex but think retail 67 000 Sheraton Flex points annually would probably also be in the ballpark of $32 000.

So, the MFs are more or less the same. It would be a win compared to buying points retail and close to buying resale as you can consider the 2000 bonus points costing $1500(MF cost per point).

At the moment I still see more VSN inventory than in Abound 12 months out(except for the mentioned glitches by some where they could access VSN inventory through Abound at 13months out). When I access both systems. At eight months I tend to see more studios in Abound and more larger room sizes in Vistana. This can all change because we do not know how Marriott manipulates the inventory and it seems they have a fluid system based on supply and demand. There has even been mention of them being able to pull inventory from II to satisfy specific demand made from waitlists.

Therefore, there seems to be a case for owning in both systems/networks from my personal experience in searching with Westin Flex, Avanturas Flex and Sheraton Flex in VSN, and Abound on the Marriott side, but this can all shift in the future to what the Marriott salespeople are purporting to(or not as has been the experience of the Marriott owners as a collective since 2010). Remember that this is a slightly different situation as Marriott weeks and points are essentially in the same system but VSN is a different network from which and into which exchanges has to occur.

Knowing what I know I would buy if I thought I can use more vacation time as it does seem to be a win compared to buying retail and simplify the process and simplicity in terms of buying resale. I would haggle to get 4000 bonus points as that is normally the offer(double what you buy) and some Bonvoy points thrown in. If you are there on an Encore package that may sweeten the deal by getting the purchase price of the Encore package back, as well as another $1000 - $2000 of if you stayed at a hotel within 1 week either side of the purchase date.

 

[M Wyo]

Something else to consider is if you ever want to rid of your Sheraton flex points you will get $0 for them. You already had the initial outlay though. Should you get to sell the 4250 Trust points you will get $12000 for them at the current resale rates that make it through ROFR. It could be less or $0 as well though as we never know what will happen. MVW may up the cost to clean resale points to $4/point which would then most likely affect resale prices downwards.

It seems as if you would be getting 1975 points extra from the deal. If you had to buy these retail it would now cost about $32 000. Resale the cost would be about $10 000.

Something else to consider is if you ever want to rid of your Sheraton flex points you will get $0 for them. You already had the initial outlay though. Should you get to sell the 4250 Trust points you will get $12000 for them at the current resale rates that make it through ROFR. It could be less or $0 as well though as we never know what will happen. MVW may up the cost to clean resale points to $4/point which would then most likely affect resale prices downwards.

It seems as if you would be getting 1975 points extra from the deal. If you had to buy these retail it would now cost about $32 000. Resale the cost would be about $10 000.

Great information. On Redweek, I see offers for 1000 club points vary from $1400 to $3500. I understand MVC will require a $3.50/point fee to recognize the points. So I see where you say that 4250 Trust points are worth ~$12,000 in the event we would ever want to sell them. Am I reading this correctly?

 

[dioxide45]

Los Suenos, being an International resort, is only available through MVC Exchange Company. So owning Trust Points would never give you an advantage there. They are selling that property as deeded weeks and owners need to elect Club Points from their week for availability to become available for other owners to book with Club Points. This is why it is a hard resort to book.

 

[Eric B]

Therefore, there seems to be a case for owning in both systems/networks....

I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion as a Vistana owner. Because I own mandatory VSN resorts, I can exchange in the VSN for the other Vistana resorts. Since those mandatory VSN resort weeks are also enrolled in Abound, I can also elect to use them for Abound exchanges. Were I to purchase Abound Trust points, I would be able to make bookings in Abound - but I can already do that with my Vistana ownership once I've elected to get Abound points for them. For me, owning Abound Trust points doesn't seem like a thing that would yield any additional options for vacationing. I've read numerous postings in this forum documenting that the availability in Abound for booking a vacation is as close to identical as it could get for someone using Trust points and someone using points elected from an enrolled week - it could change, of course, but seems quite unlikely.

 

[Venter]

Great information. On Redweek, I see offers for 1000 club points vary from $1400 to $3500. I understand MVC will require a $3.50/point fee to recognize the points. So I see where you say that 4250 Trust points are worth ~$12,000 in the event we would ever want to sell them. Am I reading this correctly?

Yes, that is where I got my numbers from.

 

[Venter]

I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion as a Vistana owner. Because I own mandatory VSN resorts, I can exchange in the VSN for the other Vistana resorts. Since those mandatory VSN resort weeks are also enrolled in Abound, I can also elect to use them for Abound exchanges. Were I to purchase Abound Trust points, I would be able to make bookings in Abound - but I can already do that with my Vistana ownership once I've elected to get Abound points for them. For me, owning Abound Trust points doesn't seem like a thing that would yield any additional options for vacationing. I've read numerous postings in this forum documenting that the availability in Abound for booking a vacation is as close to identical as it could get for someone using Trust points and someone using points elected from an enrolled week - it could change, of course, but seems quite unlikely.

Yes, I agree with all you say. That is why I stated I would only buy if I was able to vacation more and wanted to use the system. I did not think my statement through properly. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[kozykritter]

Keep in mind that you are grandfathered Executive based upon the ownerships you held when Vistana was integrated in Abound. Trading in the Sheraton Flex ownerships would involve transferring them from you - that is a triggering event for terminating the grandfathering. Adding 4,250 Trust points would give you 7,975 points total and keep you as Executive, but no longer grandfathered; if you were to buy 1,500 resale Trust points to get to the same general amount, you would have the option of selling those resale points without affecting your membership recognition level because it wouldn't change your 3-star recognition eligibility as of June 30, 2022. On the other hand, you would not be eligible to continue as a "grandfathered elite member" under the VSN rules if you were to subsequently want to sell any of the Trust points you got by trading in the Flex and it got you below the 7,000 point mark, which seems fairly likely.

Here's the pertinent part of the VSN rules for mandatory resorts that covers that (Section VIII, middle portion of paragraph 8.2 - underlining added to operative portion):



The voluntary VSN rules should be similar but I haven't checked them.

Thank you for your post! I was trying to figure out if there was any official language around changing your ownership level and grandfathered Executive status from being a 3-star elite. In addition to Vistana, I also own 1,000 MVC trust points which I may want to ditch at some point in the next couple years and I was trying to find exact language that said that as long as I didn't disturb my qualifying Vistana VOIs from that time period, I would keep my grandfathered status. The Abound FAQs mention losing it if your election points value you had at the time of grandfathering drops but trust points aren't elected so this makes sense.

 

[kozykritter]

I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion as a Vistana owner. Because I own mandatory VSN resorts, I can exchange in the VSN for the other Vistana resorts. Since those mandatory VSN resort weeks are also enrolled in Abound, I can also elect to use them for Abound exchanges. Were I to purchase Abound Trust points, I would be able to make bookings in Abound - but I can already do that with my Vistana ownership once I've elected to get Abound points for them. For me, owning Abound Trust points doesn't seem like a thing that would yield any additional options for vacationing. I've read numerous postings in this forum documenting that the availability in Abound for booking a vacation is as close to identical as it could get for someone using Trust points and someone using points elected from an enrolled week - it could change, of course, but seems quite unlikely.

One advantage I found personally for trust points over elected points is they are always available to you. With elected points you have to elect them by September/October the year before their use year or else that opportunity is gone. I really like having the convenience of my Abound trust points for this year and next year and even the year after that being readily automatically available to me for different reservation gymnastics without having to advance plan/elect. This wouldn't be a reason for me to hold on to them versus my Vistana ownership if I needed to downsize my Vistana and Marriott portfolio but it certainly is a nice difference for now

 

[VacationForever]

Thank you for your post! I was trying to figure out if there was any official language around changing your ownership level and grandfathered Executive status from being a 3-star elite. In addition to Vistana, I also own 1,000 MVC trust points which I may want to ditch at some point in the next couple years and I was trying to find exact language that said that as long as I didn't disturb my qualifying Vistana VOIs from that time period, I would keep my grandfathered status. The Abound FAQs mention losing it if your election points value you had at the time of grandfathering drops but trust points aren't elected so this makes sense.

We have been discussing on how to divest our MVC ownership in years to come. Should we get rid of all the weeks and keep the points or should we get rid of points and sell some weeks and reduce down to just a couple of weeks? We know our 35K Worldmark contract will be the last to go.

 

[M Wyo]

So much to tell. We have found when you enter into purchase agreement, make sure you know what the recission period is. And then, use this time after signing to verify the information given to you that was the basis of your purchase. There is no way you know enough detail about what you are buying in a 2hr sales presentation. We signed after we were told MVW periodically has a club point buy back program at 6.4 - 8 $/pt. Great deal since we'd be converting our Flex to club points. After many calls, we verified that a) The last club point buy back was in Oct 22 and it was for 2.72 $/pt (based on a $16/pt purchase we were offered) which made the deal a loser for us. So we backed out.

One of calls made during our due diligence was to person in the "Modification Department".. Clearly not a salesperson and he seemed to gives us factual information. How refreshing. I asked about purchasing club points on the open market. I specifically asked him what Marriott requires to fully acknowledge/accept the contract transfer. He said if the buyer has NO existing MVC club point contract, the major transfer fee is $750 / 250 points (known as a beneficial interest). And then there are smaller recording fees, etc. If there is an existing contract, the only thing he said Marriott requires is a $25 fee to transfer the deed. He was totally unaware of any rejection by Marriott for the purchase price being too small.

Note...I am just relaying information from a guy who seemed very knowledgable on the mechanics of MVC acceptance by acquiring club points through the open market.

He was comfortable enough to give me his name and email and invited me to ask him additional questions in the future.

Based on this information....I am not sure why anyone would do anything but acquire club points through the open market.

 

[DRH90277]

One advantage I found personally for trust points over elected points is they are always available to you. With elected points you have to elect them by September/October the year before their use year or else that opportunity is gone. I really like having the convenience of my Abound trust points for this year and next year and even the year after that being readily automatically available to me for different reservation gymnastics without having to advance plan/elect. This wouldn't be a reason for me to hold on to them versus my Vistana ownership if I needed to downsize my Vistana and Marriott portfolio but it certainly is a nice difference for now

I have Trust points we bought and points from exchanging enrolled weeks for points. We were at a presentation a couple of weeks ago and the sales guy tried to explain how my elected points were limited in use. However, I have experienced absolutely "no difference in use" as between our points from the two sources. One should consider this notion as "sales speak" which is usually false or embellished.

 

[VacationForever]

One of calls made during our due diligence was to person in the "Modification Department".. Clearly not a salesperson and he seemed to gives us factual information. How refreshing. I asked about purchasing club points on the open market. I specifically asked him what Marriott requires to fully acknowledge/accept the contract transfer. He said if the buyer has NO existing MVC club point contract, the major transfer fee is $750 / 250 points (known as a beneficial interest). And then there are smaller recording fees, etc. If there is an existing contract, the only thing he said Marriott requires is a $25 fee to transfer the deed. He was totally unaware of any rejection by Marriott for the purchase price being too small.

Note...I am just relaying information from a guy who seemed very knowledgable on the mechanics of MVC acceptance by acquiring club points through the open market.

He was comfortable enough to give me his name and email and invited me to ask him additional questions in the future.

Based on this information....I am not sure why anyone would do anything but acquire club points through the open market.

This person is actually not knowlegeable. All resale points require the $750 per 250 points, with a minimum of $3000, i.e. 1000 points. The only difference in first time point owners vs. current point owners is a small "education" fee of a few hundred dollars. MVC has a ROFR, currently somewhere under $3.50 to $4 per point.

 

[dioxide45]

This person is actually not knowlegeable. All resale points require the $750 per 250 points, with a minimum of $3000, i.e. 1000 points. The only difference in first time point owners vs. current point owners is a small "education" fee of a few hundred dollars. MVC has a ROFR, currently somewhere under $3.50 to $4 per point.

Yeah $300 owner education fee if you don’t already own trust points. Enrolled points don’t count.

 

[jeffm211]

I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion as a Vistana owner. Because I own mandatory VSN resorts, I can exchange in the VSN for the other Vistana resorts. Since those mandatory VSN resort weeks are also enrolled in Abound, I can also elect to use them for Abound exchanges. Were I to purchase Abound Trust points, I would be able to make bookings in Abound - but I can already do that with my Vistana ownership once I've elected to get Abound points for them. For me, owning Abound Trust points doesn't seem like a thing that would yield any additional options for vacationing. I've read numerous postings in this forum documenting that the availability in Abound for booking a vacation is as close to identical as it could get for someone using Trust points and someone using points elected from an enrolled week - it could change, of course, but seems quite to

 

[pchung6]

Keep your Vistana. Use Staroptions if you can. Unless you want to stay at MVC properties in certain years, then you convert to MVC points in these years only. Stay with Westin or Sheraton if you can. VSN is better, way better than MVC, that’s why they want to buy back your flex and WDW, and sell you unattractive MVC.

 

[jeffm211]

I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion as a Vistana owner. Because I own mandatory VSN resorts, I can exchange in the VSN for the other Vistana resorts. Since those mandatory VSN resort weeks are also enrolled in Abound, I can also elect to use them for Abound exchanges. Were I to purchase Abound Trust points, I would be able to make bookings in Abound - but I can already do that with my Vistana ownership once I've elected to get Abound points for them. For me, owning Abound Trust points doesn't seem like a thing that would yield any additional options for vacationing. I've read numerous postings in this forum documenting that the availability in Abound for booking a vacation is as close to identical as it could get for someone using Trust points and someone using points elected from an enrolled week - it could change, of course, but seems quite unlikely.

Eric, I'm with you 100%. I've received the same pitch as M Wyo and have declined each time. I'm Chairman level with all Vistana deeded and Westin Flex ownerships and have not experience problems getting what I want at the 12 month and 8 month timeframes. Until those problems arise, I don't see a reason to purchase club points. The only hangup is if I wanted to go to an MVC resort, and needed club points to do so, I'd have to decide far enough in advance to both confirm availability and convert my options to club points.

Supposedly there is a phone number for Chairman level that would make it easy to verify resort availability, convert your options AND lock in the reservation all at the same time. After repeated requests, that number "couldn't be found".

Thanks to TUG, I've saved $16,000 twice. I did buy an encore package that offered 200,000 Bonvoy points + 4 nights at WDW for less than what The Points Guy values those points at, so feel like that will be a win.

 

[Hindsite]

The only hangup is if I wanted to go to an MVC resort, and needed club points to do so, I'd have to decide far enough in advance to both confirm availability and convert my options to club points.

If you want to go to an MVC resort, you may well find it much better value to put in a "request first" with II, than to try and use club points.

 

[jeffm211]

So much to tell. We have found when you enter into purchase agreement, make sure you know what the recission period is. And then, use this time after signing to verify the information given to you that was the basis of your purchase. There is no way you know enough detail about what you are buying in a 2hr sales presentation. We signed after we were told MVW periodically has a club point buy back program at 6.4 - 8 $/pt. Great deal since we'd be converting our Flex to club points. After many calls, we verified that a) The last club point buy back was in Oct 22 and it was for 2.72 $/pt (based on a $16/pt purchase we were offered) which made the deal a loser for us. So we backed out.

One of calls made during our due diligence was to person in the "Modification Department".. Clearly not a salesperson and he seemed to gives us factual information. How refreshing. I asked about purchasing club points on the open market. I specifically asked him what Marriott requires to fully acknowledge/accept the contract transfer. He said if the buyer has NO existing MVC club point contract, the major transfer fee is $750 / 250 points (known as a beneficial interest). And then there are smaller recording fees, etc. If there is an existing contract, the only thing he said Marriott requires is a $25 fee to transfer the deed. He was totally unaware of any rejection by Marriott for the purchase price being too small.

Note...I am just relaying information from a guy who seemed very knowledgable on the mechanics of MVC acceptance by acquiring club points through the open market.

He was comfortable enough to give me his name and email and invited me to ask him additional questions in the future.

Based on this information....I am not sure why anyone would do anything but acquire club points through the open market.

I asked this question at our sales presentation and the reply was that Marriott is gobbling up club points on ROFR so we'd likely not be successful in saving tons of money. If folks are successfully buying club points on the secondary market and getting them enrolled, the above statement appears to be false. Big surprise, eh?