Bad deed prevents returning Sheraton week to Marriott

[JudyS]

Hi, all! This is a complex questions, but maybe Tuggers can give me some advice.

I have been "downsizing" my collection of Sheraton Orlando weeks by giving than back to Marriott. However, there is one week Marriott (technically, Fidelity National Timeshare, the closing company they use) will not take it back, because it has a flaw in the title.

Before I owned this week, it was owned by Mr. and Mrs. Arthur and Carolyn R. (Last name redacted to protect privacy.) Arthur passed away and then Carolyn did, too, with Carolyn's estate probated where she lived (which was not Florida.) Eventually, I acquired the timeshare somewhere -- probably on eBay from Sumday.

When I tried to deedback the timeshare, Fidelity National Timeshare, I received a letter that said:

"In our search of the title and review of the file notes we have found that there is a matter to address in regards to prior owners of record.We will require probate to be filed for Carolyn R. in Orange County, Florida along with an original death certificate for Arthur R. to be recorded."

So, what should I do? Will I have to pay to probate the estate in Florida, and how much does *that* cost? Do I actually own this week, and if not, do I have to pay maintenance fees on it?

Also, do all counties/states require probate in the county where a timeshare is located? If they do, people who own a lot of timeshares might leave their heirs with a *lot* of probate cases to file.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

JudyS

 

[geist1223]

Real Estate has to be probated in the County/State in which the Real Property is located. So you will need to talk to an Estate Attorney in Florida. It is different for a Pure Points Timeshare, which would be considered Personal Property and not Real Property.

 

[Snazzylass]

Sounds like a "clouded title."
And, I'm not sure you can fix it. Wouldn't probate need to be initiated by their heirs?

I'll leave it to others, especially Mariott owners, to advice you on the maintenance fees. I'm thinking that for their purposes, they consider you the owner.

 

[CO skier]

A quiet title lawsuit would make more sense versus probate (Fidelity National Timeshare jumped to the conclusion that you inherited the timeshare).

Do I actually own this week, and if not, do I have to pay maintenance fees on it?

Best advice is to consult an experienced real estate attorney in or near the county where the timeshare is deeded. Your ownership question is a good one, also questions about quiet title. Maintenance fee default and foreclosure is also an option, if you do own the timeshare, but maybe not the best option.

 

[dioxide45]

Quiet title may be just as or more expensive than filing probate in Florida. I agree that discussion with an attorney in Florida is a good idea. Or if you can find out who the original attorney was that handled their probate in the state in which they lived and passed would work also. I would start out by going back to Fidelity and asking them about the quiet title option. They may be able to facilitate that but it is likely to cost you. Vistana doesn't do a title search every time they transfer a deed between owners.

Unfortunately you still own the week, even with clouded title. You can simply stop paying, which will result in foreclosure and then Vistana has to pay to clear up the mess. This could cause a hit to your credit score. Not sure if Vistana dings credit scores on unpaid maintenance fees. YOu may want to flip through the default tracking thread. It looks like there may be at least one situation of a credit fee hit on defaulted maintenance fees.

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Some of you know I have been tracking this. Out of four (4) more TS defaults reported on TUG Facebook, one (1) got his credit affected. I have tabbed the following stats(updated 5/2022): TS defaults w credit drops: 47 out of 107 TS defaults w collections: 12 out of 107 TS defaults w...

tugbbs.com

 

[bogey21]

Unfortunately you still own the week, even with clouded title. You can simply stop paying, which will result in foreclosure and then Vistana has to pay to clear up the mess. This could cause a hit to your credit score. Not sure if Vistana dings credit scores on unpaid maintenance fees. YOu may want to flip through the default tracking thread. It looks like there may be at least one situation of a credit fee hit on defaulted maintenance fees.

This makes most sense to me. Trade potential ding to Credit Score for not paying legal fees and MFs. Why spend money on something you want to give away...

George

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

I agree with Dioxide45. Something to consider "What is the true value of the Timeshare in question on the resale market"?

The conclusion may be that the cost to resolve the issue may far exceed it's actual value. Under this scenario you are far better off walking away with a credit ding.



.

 

[wackymother]

Before you walk, though...could you call the closing company, ask for more info, and explain the situation? And/or call Marriott and explain the situation? Just to clarify what's going on? Maybe if they know that you have zero connection to the previous owners, they could come up with another way.

 

[tschwa2]

I had sort of the same thing happen with a Massanutten deed. Luckily the resort helped me figure out what happened and helped with the resolution. Five years or so I bid and won a Summit at Massanutten unit on ebay. The inhouse closing company had a lot of excuses about why it was taking 6 plus months to close but eventually stopped communicating completely. I assumed the deal fell through and I didn't think much of it and bought a similar unit to replace that one.

Fast forward to this summer I get an email saying they are about to foreclose on my Summit unit that I own along with the estate of a co-owner that I never heard of. At first massanutten told me that it was a mistake and all my units were in good standing but then a week later they said no I do own this unit and while I could bring it up to date and add it to my account the title was muddy and it would probably cost me several thousands to unwind it. Apparently Mr X was a widower and was approached by an exit company, so he paid them and the exit company used an ebay company to sell the timeshare. The inhouse closing company ignored that fact that Mrs Y (deceased spouse of Mr. X with a different last name) was also on the deed and recorded a deed transferring the timeshare from Mr X to me. Massanutten caught the problem right away and refused the transferred and told the closing company that Mr X would have to get the timeshare transferred to his name alone before it could be transferred to me. Neither Massanutten nor the closing company disclosed any of this to me at the time. Mr. X kept paying for the timeshare and Massanutten never put the timeshare in may account even though somewhere on their books they officially listed the timeshare as now belonging to the estate of Mrs Y and me. Last year Mr. X passes away and the payments for the timeshare MF's stop. I still was never sent a bill as it is still listed with Mr. X address. At this point the exit company and ebay company have been out of business for more than 3 years. I asked the Massanutten rep if she had any suggestion about what to do.

I told her I had no idea that this happened and would take the unit and get it up to date even though I really didn't need or want it at this point but only if I could have a clean title to sell it but really didn't want to pay thousands to get it done. The rep was able to get the manager to approve a plan to let the unit go to foreclosure, that way they could get a clean title back and they wouldn't report the foreclosure or go after me, Mr X or Mrs Y's estates for the foreclosure expenses and they would consider the matter closed.

Long story but I believe Florida has a non judicial foreclosure process. You could ask Marriott exit if that could be an option. Even if they have you pay for some or all of that expense it may be less than unwinding the title so you can give it away. If marriott exit won't consider this directly with you, the Florida lawyer might have some better suggestion.

 

[JudyS]

Thank you for the suggestions. What is quiet title?

I still own a number of Sheratons, and I'm not sure how abandoning a Sheraton would affect the usage of my other weeks. I also value my credit score as I hope to buy a house in the next year or so.

The timeshare is worth $0 on the open market.

 

[DeniseM]

I once bought a timeshare on ebay and the title had already reverted to the resort due to a foreclosure, which I discovered after it was transferred to me. The ebay seller/his agent sent me a reverse title transfer to sign to reverse the transfer. My first move would be to see if LTT can help you.

L.T. Transfers
www.lttransfers.com
readylegal@gmail.com
706.219.2709

 

[5finny]

Do you know who deeded the property to you ?
Specifically whose name is on the deed?
The deceased ?
The decedent,s estate ?
Someone else ?
And was it a warranty deed or something else?

 

[Thunder Up]

A quiet title is a lawsuit that will correct/eliminate defects in the deed. Quiet title lawsuits are very common and not a big deal. In Oklahoma, quiet title lawsuits cost about $2000. Not sure what it would cost in your state. A real estate attorney could give a price.

Good luck.

 

[Thunder Up]

One last thought. When you purchased the timeshare, if you purchased a title insurance policy you should file a claim with the title insurance company and they should correct the defective deed. The title insurance company would likely do a quiet title lawsuit.

 

[CO skier]

Eventually, I acquired the timeshare somewhere -- probably on eBay from Sumday.

One last thought. When you purchased the timeshare, if you purchased a title insurance policy you should file a claim with the title insurance company and they should correct the defective deed. The title insurance company would likely do a quiet title lawsuit.

You probably do not know this, but resales by Sumday typically sold for less than $100 on Ebay. Very, very few people would take out title insurance for hundreds of dollars on a less than $100 timeshare purchase.

 

[DeniseM]

Before you spend any money, make a free call to LTT.

 

[CO skier]

Quiet title lawsuits are very common and not a big deal. In Oklahoma, quiet title lawsuits cost about $2000.

Probably about the same cost in Florida, but definitely "a big deal" versus a no-cost deedback.

 

[rboesl]

The resort is in Florida. Isn't Florida one of those states where there won't be a credit hit due to a timeshare?

 

[dioxide45]

The resort is in Florida. Isn't Florida one of those states where there won't be a credit hit due to a timeshare?

No, the law states they just can't come after you if the proceeds from the foreclosure sale don't cover the outstanding lien. They can still report late payments with the credit reporting agencies while you are in default. Even long before it ever gets to foreclosure.

 

[VAlegacy]

Also, I imagine that if you were foreclosed on and credit impacted, a dispute would be time consuming for marriot. Would it be worth the effort?
If it were me, rather than spending thousands up front, I would get foreclosed on and if reported, take corrective actions, which in theory would ultimately result in the same outcome; one less deed and no credit impact.

 

[KProuty]

I just want to thank you for posting this. We have 3 timeshares in my and my husband's name. If one of us unexpectedly dies, then the other would need to change the title before getting rid of the timeshare.

Right now, my daughter wants the Marriott but has no interest in the other 2.

 

[Eric B]

I just want to thank you for posting this. We have 3 timeshares in my and my husband's name. If one of us unexpectedly dies, then the other would need to change the title before getting rid of the timeshare.

Right now, my daughter wants the Marriott but has no interest in the other 2.

The rules for that vary from State to State, and the law of the State where the timeshare is located would control. It also makes a difference what form the title is in; if it is as joint tenants with right of survivorship, it can be pretty simple. A number of years ago, we wound up selling a house in New York City that my wife and her brother had inherited but never changed the title on - it didn't have to go through probate to deed it to someone else, but they did have to file a form affidavit and a copy of the death certificates, IIRC. I'm fairly sure that timeshare transfer companies deal with this a fair amount - a few I've bought were from couples that included a decedent.

 

[CO skier]

... rather than spending thousands up front, I would get foreclosed on ...

Defaulting and foreclosure would likely affect the usage of the other Sheraton weeks -- as in possibly having the account frozen.

I still own a number of Sheratons, and I'm not sure how abandoning a Sheraton would affect the usage of my other weeks. I also value my credit score as I hope to buy a house in the next year or so.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@JudiS So sorry to hear about this headache. If you weren't trying to buy a house next year and need clean credit, walking would be a great option given the property is is Florida. Thanks for sharing. I have learned a lot from this thread. Please keep us apprised as to what happens.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...In hindsight even though the property was $100, it sounds like spending an extra $300 to buy title insurance to avoid this headache vs. rolling the dice and potentially paying $2000+ for quiet title transfer and the hassle sounds well worth it.