Asbestos in attached garage roof

[spirit1]

Hello Tuggers. I have a problem here and hope you can help.

My youngest son was looking at buying a house just a few blocks away from us. Great neighborhood. Built in 1959 a bilevel with attached single garage.

It has been for sale since end of September and has had three price adjustments down. From the pictures and just knowing the house, it has been beautifully looked after. The 99 year old owner has lived in that house for over 50 years and just moved into care. Everything, and I mean everything in that house is original. Except for a walk in tub in the upstairs bath. 60 amp electrical, no dishwasher, original cabinets and countertops, original water tank and furnace, beatiful hardwood floors in living room dining room and 3 upstairs bedrooms. It is actually a beautiful house with lots of original mahogany throughout. My son was looking forward to moving in and slowly upgrading over the years.
He called an inspector and was with him throughout the 4 hours of inspection. Very few things wrong with that house and it was very well priced. My son made an offer and it was accepted pending inspection.

Today he called me and was pretty upset. He had spoken to a woman from an insulation removing company who took the house address and told him that in that area there were sometimes houses that had insulation that contained asbestos. My son and inspector had looked in the attic and there was pink insulation but in the attacked single garage it was probably the pellet type that, due to the age of the house, could be asbestos based. If their company came and it was asbestos, the cost to remove properly would be about 15000 dollars. He called the realtor letting her know what the company told him and she immediately said the owners would lower the price to sell by 15000.

Now, my husband and I had been with our son to look at the house. We did not have our own realtor at the time but everything moved so quickly that we never had time to get one. My son can make a large downpayment and has very good credit score. He easily qualified for a mortgage, made an offer and when he did not want to counter their offer, they accepted his first offer...pending inspection.

I know that the house is a great deal, and with the cost of replacing the insulation, an even better deal. It was very well maintained but something is still not right with this decision.

My son is not in love with the hosue...he likes it, and the inspector said it was very well built (my husband was in construction and he agrees the house was well built but does not like the fact the insulation factor was not mentioned to us) The only downside with most buyers is the house is not upgraded but the fact that it was very well maintained was the main selling feature for us.

Oh, one more issue. The house shows very well from the outside because it has newer vinyl siding all around the house. But when we asked if there was insulation behind the siding, the realtor said no. Also she did not have the receipts for the siding. Now, my husband has receipts for carpet we installed 40 years ago. It seems strange that someone whose only upgrade in that house over 50 years was a walk in tub, but she installed vinyl siding? Problem with original siding damage? Just a nagging doubt on my side along with my husband.

I don't think my son is going to buy this house, but I would welcome your insights on this matter. Thanks for reading.

 

[geekette]

When we put on vinyl siding, it was so that we would not have to paint the clapboard. Insulation was put over the clapboard before the vinyl. I would expect it is there. Receipt might be in a box of papers somewhere, I'd simply ask who put it on and when, and contact that company to inquire as to insulation. Maybe it is standard practice for them, maybe they can pull up exact project record.

Asbestos isn't a problem until some gouge unleashes it.

Frankly, I lived in an old house and would not do it again. When things go wrong, they go wrong big.

If he's not in love with the house, why buy it??

 

[bogey21]

I grew up in a house with exposed pipes in the basement wrapped in asbestos. Periodically we had to wrap tape around where the asbestos was flaking off. I lived in this house for about 18 years and played in the basement a lot notwithstanding the asbestos and coal dust every time coal was delivered. In addition, my parents smoked in the house profusely. 86 years later and I am still here. I'm not saying asbestos is not bad but if the only asbestos is in the garage and unexposed and the price has been discounted by $15,000 because of it, I'd buy it even knowing I might have an issue when it came time for me to sell it. But that is just me. I'm sure others feel differently...

George

 

[DrQ]

In addition to asbestos, a 1959 house may also have lead paint.

If he were to buy the house, he may find himself stuck with it until the problem is addressed if the laws change.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I was curious about your comment of "pellet insultation". What came to mind is an expanded material called vermiculite and the pellets might be 1/4" (plus or minus). When I think of asbestos (friable) I think of fuzz and fibers, rather than pellets. My folks had a house built in 1919 and they had rock-wool insulation in popcorn sized tuffs. But rockwool isn't asbestos. Also, pink insulation is typically fiberglass. So I did a google search and came up with two things (neither were necessarily 100% definitive):

1. Houses built between 1930 and 1950 may have asbestos as insulation. Asbestos may be present in textured paint and in patching compounds used on wall and ceiling joints. Their use was banned in 1977.
2. While fiberglass and cellulose rose to popularity some years apart from each other, they were the mainstay of insulation during the 1960s and onward (thanks to the fall of asbestos).

You mentioned that the previous owner lived there for 50 years but you did not mention when the house was built (or if you did, I missed it.

Having asbestos in the attic, the walls or embedded in a popcorn ceiling isn't really an immediate problem, except if you were to open up a wall, climb around the attic, sand the ceiling, etc. It is really (in my opinion and I'm not an expert) only an issue if it is "friable" and airborn. But if it is in the attic or the walls, it is not airborne. But the disposal of asbestos can be a costly issue.

If I were you, I'd google "asbestos testing". There are test kits that you can buy on-line or some big box stores. If it isn't asbestos, then you got a free $15 K price reduction. Also, I don't know if I'd trust an insulation removal company to give an unbiased analysis. I'd at least get a second opinion from someone or some company who isn't likely to profit from finding it to be asbestos.

 

[moonstone]

A good restoration company (pm me for the name of one) can either remove the asbestos or seal it in/up. Before our oldest DS switched to the commercial division he worked in the residential side of a few large restoration companies that were hired by insurance companies to deal with asbestos in homes. Many areas have regulations that make disclosing asbestos or other hazardous materials in a home when listing it compulsory. Can your son get a reduction in price or some compensation from the seller to deal with the removal or remediation of the asbestos?

~Diane

 

[mpizza]

Since it is a mature property, I would advise additional professional inspections, including an oil tank sweep, septic, well water, mold, etc..

Even if your son is fine with the existing conditions, he will need to address any issues when the time comes that he wants to sell the home.

Maria

 

[easyrider]

I don't think my son is going to buy this house, but I would welcome your insights on this matter.

The asbestos isn't a problem unless you move it. Same goes for lead paint. The siding under the vinyl siding on older homes will usually test positive for lead paint. One way that many home owners with asbestos siding or lead paint deal with these materials is to cover it with foam sheeting and vinyl siding. In the PNW a mold problem with certain wood composite sidings like LP was being covered up with vinyl siding without doing mold mitigation which is a problem. It is a good idea to unlock a piece of the vinyl siding to see what they covered.

The asbestos in the attic usually causes more problems when disturbed. The friable particles can end up in the air and settle elsewhere like in a living area where it could supposedly be dangerous. The regulations are a bit overkill and now apply to home owner and contractor.

I would encourage a person to buy a home built no older than 1978. Most toxicity issues and electrical issues are not issues after 1977. Even then, inspections by a qualified impartial non-contractor inspector is advised.

Bill

 

[AnnieBets]

Asbestos was also used in popcorn ceilings and lanolium floors, in case has either of those. I sold a house as is at a very low price partially to not have to deal with that.

 

[spirit1]

Since it is a mature property, I would advise additional professional inspections, including an oil tank sweep, septic, well water, mold, etc..

Even if your son is fine with the existing conditions, he will need to address any issues when the time comes that he wants to sell the home.

Maria

Yes, thank you. My son had a professional inspection done..took over 4 hours. He was with the inspector for the whole time. The house is actually in incredible shape...the inspector said that it was one of the nicest houses of that age he had seen. The problem he told my son was the garage was attached to the house and there was a small crack from where the house had shifted over the years. WIth the constant opening and closing of the door over the years, there was no telling if the asbestos had migrated into the house. The inspector was fairly young...around mid 40's and he and my son had a great conversation while doing the inspection. He said...for an older person there might not be an issue but for a young person and family, that exposure was not something he would personally risk.
So sad.....the house itself has good insulation (my husband checked) but they went with Zonelight in the garage attic.

The original tile in the kitchen has been replaced but the basement still has original tile...probably asbestos backed. No problem if left in place or covered up with carpet. The hardwood in the house is beautiful and the original mahogany kitchen cabinets were in great condition. Someone had loved that house over the years....but it has been on the market for 4 months.....others must have had the same misgivings.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

WIth the constant opening and closing of the door over the years, there was no telling if the asbestos had migrated into the house. The inspector was fairly young...around mid 40's and he and my son had a great conversation while doing the inspection. He said...for an older person there might not be an issue but for a young person and family, that exposure was not something he would personally risk.
So sad.....the house itself has good insulation (my husband checked) but they went with Zonelight in the garage attic.

The original tile in the kitchen has been replaced but the basement still has original tile...probably asbestos backed.

Some thoughts. If your son isn't sure, maybe just PASS.

But, your comment about "no telling" if asbestos migrated?? I think that it is really pretty inexpensive to send in a sample to be tested for asbestos. So how does one determine if asbestos migrated? Simple: test it. I'm surprised that the recent inspector just "speculated" rather than tested. But, in this day of litigation, it may be safer to throw doubt and fear into the equation in order to avoid litigation. But me? I'd test. If the test came back negative then I'd have a fair amount of "peace of mind".

Zonelight in the attic? If the inspector knew for sure that it was zonolight, then yeah, that could be a problem IF (big if) someone is going to be rummaging around in the attic. If the inspector was guessing - - get it tested. If it tests positive, but if the opening to the garage attic is closed, it shouldn't be a problem. If I had to do work up in the garage attic with Zonolight, I'd probably wear an N95, N99 or P100 respirator and afterwards I'd have someone use compressed air (outside) to blow off particles and then go into the shower with my clothes after working up there. Also, I think that it may be practical to have someone remove (like vacuum up) the zonolight and replace it with fiberglass or equiv. For vacuuming an attic, I've used a shop vac with a 40 foot pool hose and the shop vac placed outside. And yes, I wore an N95 mask.

But, unless your son thinks that the place is a terrific bargain AND is nervous about the risks, maybe passing on the purchase is best. And then only look at properties built after 1978 (?).

 

[spirit1]

Some thoughts. If your son isn't sure, maybe just PASS.

But, your comment about "no telling" if asbestos migrated?? I think that it is really pretty inexpensive to send in a sample to be tested for asbestos. So how does one determine if asbestos migrated? Simple: test it. I'm surprised that the recent inspector just "speculated" rather than tested. But, in this day of litigation, it may be safer to throw doubt and fear into the equation in order to avoid litigation. But me? I'd test. If the test came back negative then I'd have a fair amount of "peace of mind".

Zonelight in the attic? If the inspector knew for sure that it was zonolight, then yeah, that could be a problem IF (big if) someone is going to be rummaging around in the attic. If the inspector was guessing - - get it tested. If it tests positive, but if the opening to the garage attic is closed, it shouldn't be a problem. If I had to do work up in the garage attic with Zonolight, I'd probably wear an N95, N99 or P100 respirator and afterwards I'd have someone use compressed air (outside) to blow off particles and then go into the shower with my clothes after working up there. Also, I think that it may be practical to have someone remove (like vacuum up) the zonolight and replace it with fiberglass or equiv. For vacuuming an attic, I've used a shop vac with a 40 foot pool hose and the shop vac placed outside. And yes, I wore an N95 mask.

But, unless your son thinks that the place is a terrific bargain AND is nervous about the risks, maybe passing on the purchase is best. And then only look at properties built after 1978 (?).

Thank you for the great post. The inspector was just pointing out the difficulties with what is thought to be Zonelight. My son had called a company that removes insulation and the woman there told him that in this area some houses had asbestos type insulation. In Canada if the insulation has asbestos, it immediately needs to incorporate certain safety protocols for the safe removal of the substance. For his small garage she said it could cost 15000 dollars and that just covers the cost of putting up protective barriors, cutting the holes and removing the product, not the repair and replacement. She said that the with the age of the house, it was likely that the insulation was asbsestos. Otherwise it would be only a minimal cost. When my son was talking to the realtor she immediately said that the owners would be willing to lower the cost of the house by 15000.
The thing is, we live in the same neighborhood. We have never heard of zonelight problems when our neighbors do renovations. I think that someone put the Zonelight in later on because the house does not have that insulation in it. There are a few houses with attached front drive attached single garages and many have been converted to living space with double garages built in the back. (We have alleys). And asbestos protocols have been in place here for at least 30 years. So either the owners paid to have it removed properly, or did it themselves to avoid the cost.
I posted this just to keep Tuggers informed on what we found and hopefully have a conversation on keeping us safe. Cheers.

 

[nightnurse613]

I can't find my husband (!) right now but, I seem to recall him mentioning you can remediate asbestos yourself as long as it's a certain size and you don't own more than four (?) properties...He was in property management for a few years. Obviously each state has their own rules and you would still need to protect yourself, the neighbors and comply with any special landfill rules but, if the sellers are willing to decrease the price and you have a good estimate then, I say-REMEDIATE! (DO EVERYONE A FAVOR)