Anyone own Four Seasons Timeshare? Would love to book a call or meet up in-person to learn your experience

[michael travel]

Hi TUGBBS folks, this is my second post.

Looking for someone who own FS or Ritz Timeshare. Seems like it is on the higher end of all available Timeshare. I stayed in both FS properties before and a few Ritz properties. I am now tempting to buy resale available. Would love to chat with someone who own FS or Ritz club for 2 hours - $100 amazon gift card available as a gift for the help. Particularly want to understand what is last minute availability look like. We can do Zoom or meet up in person in San Francisco Bay Area. Let me know! my email is michaelminghaotravel@gmail.com.

Thank you!
Michael

 

[sponger76]

Hi TUGBBS folks, this is my second post.

Looking for someone who own FS or Ritz Timeshare. Seems like it is on the higher end of all available Timeshare. I stayed in both FS properties before and a few Ritz properties. I am now tempting to buy resale available. Would love to chat with someone who own FS or Ritz club for 2 hours - $100 amazon gift card available as a gift for the help. Particularly want to understand what is last minute availability look like. We can do Zoom or meet up in person in San Francisco Bay Area. Let me know! my email is michaelminghaotravel@gmail.com.

Thank you!
Michael

Don't know about Four Seasons. I also don't own at any of the Ritz Carlton Clubs but have stayed and also did a little research on ownership. Rather than a timeshare, RCC was sold only as a fractional ownership, meaning your purchase involves multiple weeks (usually at least 4) rather than a single week, in a specific unit. You don't choose a week to book, what you get rotates slightly every year so everyone who owns in the same unit gets the high demand weeks (Christmas, New Year's, 4th of July, etc) every few years. From what I understand there is an internal system to swap for a week at the other Ritz properties. To buy in is pretty high cost (even resale, you're looking at 6 figures) and annual maintenance fees I've seen are over $20k per year, because not only are they weeks at the Ritz Carlton, but you're paying for multiple of them. There are of course other nuances, including enrollment in Abound, exchanging (ThirdHome rather than Interval International), etc.

Speaking of Abound, that is another way to try to stay at RCC properties. Just own MVC Club Points or have an MVC or Vistana property that is enrolled in Abound and can be traded in for Club Points on a year-to-year basis, and use those points to book at RCC properties. The catch is that the availability will need to come from RCC owners who elected points in lieu of specific weeks for that particular year, or from unsold RCC inventory that ended up transferred into the points trust, which mostly was from the Vail and San Francisco locations if I understand correctly, and much more limited from the other locations. Owners electing for points may be much more rare since they can often get better value by either renting their weeks out for cash or by exchanging for high end properties in ThirdHome.

At least that's my understanding of it, but hopefully someone who actually owns or had owned can chime expand or clarify anything I misunderstood about RCC ownership.

 

[Hindsite]

@alwysonvac do you have any guidance?

 

[zentraveler]

Hi TUGBBS folks, this is my second post.

Looking for someone who own FS or Ritz Timeshare. Seems like it is on the higher end of all available Timeshare. I stayed in both FS properties before and a few Ritz properties. I am now tempting to buy resale available. Would love to chat with someone who own FS or Ritz club for 2 hours - $100 amazon gift card available as a gift for the help. Particularly want to understand what is last minute availability look like. We can do Zoom or meet up in person in San Francisco Bay Area. Let me know! my email is michaelminghaotravel@gmail.com.

Thank you!
Michael

We have owned FS Aviara for 26+ years and use it almost exclusively for trading through Interval. I sent you a PM. Called "conversations" if you click on your name above where it says "Guest".

 

[DeniseM]

I think you need to do this survey to focus your wants and needs:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/what-to-buy-questions-for-new-timeshare-owners.208742/ow

Please note that your offers to meet/have a phone call/borrow the account of a TUG member for $100 is not really something that is common practice on TUG - you may be a boy scout, but it makes you look a bit sketchy.

On TUG, we learn by reading the Help and Advice Page, reading the stickies at the top of forums, reading the posts in the forums you are interested in, and then asking questions in the appropriate forums. The Resort Reviews are also a good place to do your homework.

 

[alwysonvac]

Particularly want to understand what is last minute availability look like.

In general, here's what you need to understand about all timeshares
It's not like booking a hotel room where rooms remain available until it's sold.
These are prepaid vacations. We pay our maintenance fees whether we're able to book something or not (you snooze, you lose). Each resort only has a fixed number of rooms available each week. You have to book early otherwise you'll have to pick from the leftovers. It's similar to a Black Friday sale (offer is good only while supplies last!!). On Black Friday, the folks who wait outside for the doors to open, have a greater chance of success compared to someone who strolls in much later looking for that same limited high demand item that is now long gone.

Expect lots of competition during peak ski season at ski resorts, peak summer at beachfront resorts, and anytime the major of kids are out of school (spring/summer/winter breaks and major holidays). For some locations and/or travel periods, you have to book immediately when the booking window because highly desirable rooms will be taken within minutes, hours and/or days (depending on the location, unit size/view and/or time of year).

Now, if you're looking for last minute availability during extremely low demand times (mud season at ski resorts or New York City/San Francisco/San Diego/Michigan/Minnesota/Wisconsin in January), then you'll probably have a high level of success . I'm not saying you'll never find any last minute availability but you can't count on it at high demand locations and/or travel periods.

JMHO.. if your main goal is to book last minute reservations, you're better off renting. You can rent directly from the source or from timeshare owners who book their rental reservation months in advance. Here's a site - https://www.redweek.com/featured/last-minute-timeshare-rentals

Regarding Four Seasons Residence Club (FSRC)
There are only two Four Seasons Residence Club timeshares - Aviara in San Diego and Troon in Scottsdale. The other Residence Clubs were sold as fractionals.
JMHO...I suggest that you only buy FSRC timeshare resorts if you plan to mostly stay at your home resort. I can't speak to the fractional ownership

I used to own a two bedroom villa in Gold Season at FSRC Aviara.
Aviara basically has two seasons Platinum and Gold. Platinum Season runs for 17 weeks mid-June to mid-October with the remaining 35 weeks of the year designated as Gold Season.
Each year, I basically had three choices: use it, rent it or exchange it. FSRC is associated with an exhange company called Interval International (similar to RCI).
FSRC doesn't support banking or borrowing. You can basically reserve the whole week or partial week (Split Week Option: 3-night weekend / 4-night weekday). Two bedroom owners have the option to split their week into a two week stay (Double Usage Option: 1 week in the one bedroom side and 1 week in the studio side). I've attached some documents below.

FSRC initially sold single week ownership at Aviara then later move to fractional ownership while selling Troon. Multi-week owners are allowed to book 13 months in advance (concurrent and consecutive weeks) while single week owners are only allowed to book 12 months in advance. This rule allowed multi-week owners to book all of their high demand inventory putting single week owners at a disadvantage. See this thread for more details (link).

Here’s the FSRC Booking Windows

• 13 months before the desired arrival date, multiple week owners (owners who own two or more weeks in the same season and same Home Project) may request a concurrent or consecutive reservation in the full unit type owned.
• 12 Months before the desired arrival date, owners may request their Home Project in the season they own for their full unit type for 7 nights, or may utilize the Double Usage or Split Week option.
• 10 months prior to arrival, Club Members may utilize the Club Exchange option and request reservations in either their owned season at Aviara or Scottsdale, or a lower season.
• 6 months prior to arrival, Club Members may utilize the Club Exchange option and request reservations in a season that is one seasons higher than their owned season.

Early on there were promises of an online exchange system but nothing became of it. Their hotel exchange program basically got watered down (their exclusive hotel package for FSRC owners was discontinued). Their Four Seasons Accommodation Credit (AC) program still exists allowing owners to redeem their use week for credits to utilize at participating Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. These credits are redeemable for Room and Tax only. However, the AC is a fixed value that never changed even though maintenance fees/hotel rental rates continued to rise. Here are the rates.
- Platinum 2 Bedroom Redemption Value: 2450.00
- Platinum 1 Bedroom Stand Alone Redemption Value: 1625.00
- Gold 2 Bedroom Redemption Value: 1750.00
- Gold 1 Bedroom Stand Alone Redemption Value: 1150.00

 

[iftravel]

Very expensive to use as a trader in II or RCI. I was thinking about getting access to Elite Alliance with it. Anyone had good experience?

 

[zentraveler]

Hi TUGBBS folks, this is my second post.

Looking for someone who own FS or Ritz Timeshare. Seems like it is on the higher end of all available Timeshare. I stayed in both FS properties before and a few Ritz properties. I am now tempting to buy resale available. Would love to chat with someone who own FS or Ritz club for 2 hours - $100 amazon gift card available as a gift for the help. Particularly want to understand what is last minute availability look like. We can do Zoom or meet up in person in San Francisco Bay Area. Let me know! my email is michaelminghaotravel@gmail.com.

Thank you!
Michael

@michael travel, the reply by @alwysonvac post #6 has what you need to know about FSRC. We own one gold week 2 BR lock off which we split to the studio and 1 BR and deposit both into Interval every year. As with many of us long timers here, we bought this from the developer 26+ years ago and have been using it ever since. Our intention was to use it to trade since we have family in the area, although the best way to use it is to stay there. It is a fabulous resort in a very nice area of California.

That said, we have been trading it every year (except one) and have gotten almost without fail, great trades at Westins and Marriotts mostly, and mostly for Hawaii for two contiguous weeks. We have been able to get room size upgrades (studio to a 1 BR, 1 BR to 2 BR) for what we consider a modest fee (was $59, can't remember if it went up last year).

Our MF's are somewhere around $3100 and it is not a good "trader" in that sense. But we have been happy with what we have gotten with it, especially in the early days when there were a lot more options. We are going to Maine this spring to a 2 BR resort we matched with our studio (Harbor Ridge).

Also @DeniseM's post #5 has lot of good suggestions too.

​

 

[iftravel]

@michael travel, the reply by @alwysonvac post #6 has what you need to know about FSRC. We own one gold week 2 BR lock off which we split to the studio and 1 BR and deposit both into Interval every year. As with many of us long timers here, we bought this from the developer 26+ years ago and have been using it ever since. Our intention was to use it to trade since we have family in the area, although the best way to use it is to stay there. It is a fabulous resort in a very nice area of California.

That said, we have been trading it every year (except one) and have gotten almost without fail, great trades at Westins and Marriotts mostly, and mostly for Hawaii for two contiguous weeks. We have been able to get room size upgrades (studio to a 1 BR, 1 BR to 2 BR) for what we consider a modest fee (was $59, can't remember if it went up last year).

Our MF's are somewhere around $3100 and it is not a good "trader" in that sense. But we have been happy with what we have gotten with it, especially in the early days when there were a lot more options. We are going to Maine this spring to a 2 BR resort we matched with our studio (Harbor Ridge).

Also @DeniseM's post #5 has lot of good suggestions too.

​

Is it easy to get Westin / Marriott in Hawaii these days? I find it hard if not impossible to grab a 1-bed+ without a Vistana / Marriott trader. Perhaps FSRC is a little special in preference?

 

[zentraveler]

Is it easy to get Westin / Marriott in Hawaii these days? I find it hard if not impossible to grab a 1-bed+ without a Vistana / Marriott trader. Perhaps FSRC is a little special in preference?

My experience with the opaque II algorithm is that FSRC trades extremely well. At least it has for us. I try to deposit a popular FS week although since we are gold and not platinum we can't book the summer. But it still has worked well for us for a long time which is why we keep it. And although the MF are too high for people wanting an inexpensive trader ,some of the Marriott, and other MF's, are getting to be higher.

 

[iftravel]

My experience with the opaque II algorithm is that FSRC trades extremely well. At least it has for us. I try to deposit a popular FS week although since we are gold and not platinum we can't book the summer. But it still has worked well for us for a long time which is why we keep it. And although the MF are too high for people wanting an inexpensive trader ,some of the Marriott, and other MF's, are getting to be higher.

Thanks for sharing. Do you often need to put in a request or you “see” more instant inventory in II? I imagine those Westin /Marriott Hawaii weeks are often blocked for instant exchange but they could give you a bit preference in a ongoing request as some Marriott owners are so willing to exchange into FSRC and it could be a perfect match. In that sense it may bypass the Marriott preference period.

 

[zentraveler]

Thanks for sharing. Do you often need to put in a request or you “see” more instant inventory in II? I imagine those Westin /Marriott Hawaii weeks are often blocked for instant exchange but they could give you a bit preference in a ongoing request as some Marriott owners are so willing to exchange into FSRC and it could be a perfect match. In that sense it may bypass the Marriott preference period.

I put in OGS as soon as I can book a week at the Four Seasons Aviara. A direct trade with a Marriott (or other) owner is also an efficient way to do it, but there is the complication of knowing who you are dealing with etc.

 

[iftravel]

I put in OGS as soon as I can book a week at the Four Seasons Aviara. A direct trade with a Marriott (or other) owner is also an efficient way to do it, but there is the complication of knowing who you are dealing with etc.

Got it. OGS is likely giving your FSRC a bit special treatment. I didn’t mean to say a direct exchange yourself. What I imagine why FSRC traded really well in II is by entering OGS, you might be matched with another Marriott Hawaii owner with OGS for FSRC so II might arrange that exact match before other Marriott owners, giving you a bit preference in that way.

 

[Hindsite]

Got it. OGS is likely giving your FSRC a bit special treatment. I didn’t mean to say a direct exchange yourself. What I imagine why FSRC traded really well in II is by entering OGS, you might be matched with another Marriott Hawaii owner with OGS for FSRC so II might arrange that exact match before other Marriott owners, giving you a bit preference in that way.

No, that's very unlikely to be whats going on, the chances of the scenario happening are so slim II wouldn't rely on it. What they do do, is forecast supply and demand for deposits and exchanges and that is a variable factor that would work in your favour if you own a popular location and want to trade into a less popular location. The MVC preference just works as the MVC weeks internal exchange process, it could be hosted outside of II like DVC and Hyatt have, but they chose to use II as the platform for it so people get wrapped up in it being something it isn't. Its actually much fairer to other brands than either the DVC or Hyatt processes, as both of those wait until 5-6 months ahead to release inventory to II. MVC releases inventory to II after less than 4 weeks of it going in to II, so other brands can get the inventory 2 months ahead or more.

 

[iftravel]

No, that's very unlikely to be whats going on, the chances of the scenario happening are so slim II wouldn't rely on it. What they do do, is forecast supply and demand for deposits and exchanges and that is a variable factor that would work in your favour if you own a popular location and want to trade into a less popular location. The MVC preference just works as the MVC weeks internal exchange process, it could be hosted outside of II like DVC and Hyatt have, but they chose to use II as the platform for it so people get wrapped up in it being something it isn't. Its actually much fairer to other brands than either the DVC or Hyatt processes, as both of those wait until 5-6 months ahead to release inventory to II. MVC releases inventory to II after less than 4 weeks of it going in to II, so other brands can get the inventory 2 months ahead or more.

Don’t think it’s so rare for two OGS to match exactly and II is likely to prioritize the exact match. Why not, they got two satisfied customers and earn two exchange fees instantly. For Hawaii Marriott owners, it makes sense for them to request FS as it’s the only upgrade they get in II.

The other scenario, which I think is unlikely is when a Marriott Hawaii week is deposited, will it go to an OGS with FS first? Or if it doesn’t match an OGS with Marriott, it will deposit into the instant exchange inventory (but FS cannot see) and only after the preference period ends, it then match the OGS with FS? Likely someone with both FS and Marriott can test this hypothesis.

 

[Hindsite]

Don’t think it’s so rare for two OGS to match exactly and II is likely to prioritize the exact match. Why not, they got two satisfied customers and earn two exchange fees instantly. For Hawaii Marriott owners, it makes sense for them to request FS as it’s the only upgrade they get in II.

It may not be rare, but the exact timing may be more rare, such that both the deposit and the request hit at the same time and some additional rule over-rides the MVC to MVC preference period. Anything could happen...
I know MVC Hawaii owners use II for many more places that the limited number of FS resorts, and they will also be exchanging into other Hawaii locations to get value. Same as for FS, those that have the ability to lock-off can get excellent upgrades across the system with the number of elite and premier resorts available. as an example: A studio can reliably pull a DVC Orlando 2-bed all or most of the year. They also have a home resort priority, so a owner with a smaller unit gets some priority for a larger unit over other owners with the same trading power.

The other scenario, which I think is unlikely is when a Marriott Hawaii week is deposited, will it go to an OGS with FS first? Or if it doesn’t match an OGS with Marriott, it will deposit into the instant exchange inventory (but FS cannot see) and only after the preference period ends, it then match the OGS with FS? Likely someone with both FS and Marriott can test this hypothesis.

In theory the MVC week will go in to preference and be matched to an MVC OGS, if there isn't an MVC OGS it will go into inventory that can only be seen by MVC members. When it comes out of the preference period it will then get matched to an OCS with the highest trading power before going in to open inventory.
If you watch the sightings board, you will be able to see how things work, I've not seen anything that indicates that FS, or any other non-MVC elite resort gets matches in the MVC preference period. It may happen, and the manual component of Trading power and OGS means it could happen, but I've not seen or heard of it.