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Anyone notice a significant drop in t/p? [trading power]

MuranoJo

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Just today, wow, across the board. And I checked in a few times.
Also extended a week a few days ago and now it's completely gone. RCI people say they see it. May be a temporary glitch or a view of what's in store mid November.

Just curious if others have seen it.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I've also noticed a significant drop in t.p. this last week. But I suspect that once we get past Halloween the store inventories will return normal. :D :D
 

tahoeJoe

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Just today, wow, across the board. And I checked in a few times.
Also extended a week a few days ago and now it's completely gone. RCI people say they see it. May be a temporary glitch or a view of what's in store mid November.

Just curious if others have seen it.

What is a t/p? Toilet paper?

-TJ
 

LLW

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What is a t/p? Toilet paper?

-TJ

I am guessing that in post #1 the poster meant trading power, and in post #2 the poster meant toilet paper. :D
 

MuranoJo

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I am guessing that in post #1 the poster meant trading power, and in post #2 the poster meant toilet paper. :D

I am guessing you are guessing right! :D
 

Carolinian

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My, oh, my, who would ever suspect that RCI would play games with trading power right at the changeover to its new trading regime? Oh, I know . . .''but they promised!''
 

MuranoJo

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OK, 'nuff said. I regret ever posting this.

Maybe TUG can also implement a 'value scale' so we can see if our postings would be deemed valuable or of interest before we post.

But you know, that would be a very qualitative, behind-the-scenes judgment call from the evil TUG administrators.
 

JudiZ

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Civility...again

OK, 'nuff said. I regret ever posting this.

Maybe TUG can also implement a 'value scale' so we can see if our postings would be deemed valuable or of interest before we post.

But you know, that would be a very qualitative, behind-the-scenes judgment call from the evil TUG administrators.

I agree. Civility is becoming the lost art of civilization. I apologize for the portion of Americans...Tuggers...who can't be civil. Answer, don't answer, but for goodness' sake, can you not be polite? As my dear Meme would ask,"Were you raised in a barn?"

Once again, I lurk and I cringe.
 

rickandcindy23

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Who wasn't civil in this thread? Maybe I missed something? I think Steve (Trog) was just joking about the TP.

Carolinian is pointing out that before these changes, maybe RCI is reducing trading power, even though some are saying that won't happen, because RCI said it won't happen. I also doubt RCI's word.
 

MichaelColey

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I think the toilet paper shortage in the stores is probably RCI's fault, too.

On a serious note, I just checked the trading power of my deposits, and I don't see any significant change. One deposit that saw 65k units two weeks ago sees 64k units today. Another that has seen 105k units for the past month still sees 105k units. A third unit that saw 100k units a couple months ago sees 102k units now. (But the gain is understandable since it's a Feb/2012 week. I expect to see it peak at about 115k units in a few months.)

What kind of drop are you seeing that you consider it "significant"?
 

Mel

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I have 4 weeks on deposit, all spring beach weeks, and didn't see any major difference with them either. Probably another instance of increasing the number of bands. Some are seeing changes, others are not.
 

rickandcindy23

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I saw a decrease in trading power for my Wyndham red studio deposits over the past week. I was seeing 89K units and only week 85K today, and I see less larger units in Orlando than I saw before.

My Twin Rivers ski and summer weeks are also seeing a slight drop in trading power, but I only have them in our account to use them in PIC with Wyndham, so I guess I don't really care that much. I need to sell some Val Chatelle or figure out how to use them in this new system.
 

bellesgirl

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I have noticed about a 2K drop across the board in the last couple of days. But I have also noticed that at the end of the month there seems to be a drop and then it picks up in the new month. I think it has something to do with basically zero availability for Oct, 2010 and not yet showing Oct. 2012, but that is just my guess.
 

bnoble

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I'm seeing fluctuations that are around 2-3% over the past week, but nothing that I would call unusual. I don't think there was a revaluation a la 5/30/09---that one was extremely obvious when it happened, with a *large* hue and cry.
 

krj9999

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My 2011 Grandview week deposit sees about 4500 less units than my 2010 week does for the overlapping time period. I may have deposited too early, but wanted to get it in before the credit system started.
 

MuranoJo

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All of my units across the board dropped at least 25-30%. As mentioned, I checked back several times, did refreshes, etc., and they didn't budge upward. On top of that, the week I extended just disappeared.

Tonight, it seems to be edging back upwards a bit.
 

Carolinian

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Increasing the number of bands is merely a technique for decreasing trading power.

I have 4 weeks on deposit, all spring beach weeks, and didn't see any major difference with them either. Probably another instance of increasing the number of bands. Some are seeing changes, others are not.
 

"Roger"

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Increasing the number of bands is merely a technique for decreasing trading power.
If Carolinian is talking about the Weeks program, yes this (decreasing everyone's trading power) can happen. Fortunately that system is about to come to an end.

Long explanation: (I am sorry, but this becomes a double post. However, I think when there is post that states something that is flat out impossible, TUGGERs need to see why.)

First what happens when there is a splitting of bands within a Points system: Let us suppose before the adding of bands there were just two bands (to simplify) with ten people rated at 20 and ten at 10. Let us also take what some people might consider worst case scenario (just what you would expect from RCI) where RCI "lowers" half of the people when it creates new bands. ("Lowers" turns out to be an inappropriate word.) After the new bands are created, there are five people each at the levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Now lets look at each of the four new groups:

The people at 5: They are definitely worse off. Before they could make an even trade to ten resorts, now they can only make an even trade to five. (The five that are considered comparable to their own resort.)

The people at 10: They are winners. They can trade for the same ten resorts that they could before. They have lost nothing in that regard. In addition, for five of those resorts, they can trade two for one. Finally, whereas before, they could not trade for any of the units rated 20, they can now do so. It would take a year and a half to trade for one of the units rated at 15, two years for a unit at 20. (Not great, but these trades were simply unavailable to them before.)

The people at 15: Modest losers. They can't trade for all the units that they used to even up. (Actually, what they can't do is "trade up" at the one to one ratio for the units rated 20 as before. There was a reason that they were not maintained at the 20 level - their units are not as good.) However, now when they trade for a unit at the 10 level, they still have change (extra points) to apply to some future trade.

The people at 20: Big winners. They can trade for everything (as before), but now get change whenever they trade down.

Summary -- Dividing into more bands will create winners and losers. There is no mathematical scenario in which everyone loses.

Now with a Weeks system things can be different:

Do the same split described in the prior post (with half the units being given lower trading value). Add to that a proviso that no one is allowed to trade up.

What happens now is that whenever anyone trades down, a unit is left that is too expensive for anyone to afford. (Suppose, in the extreme, all of the owners of the units rated 20 trade for units rated 15. Now, no one is left who can afford the units rated 20.)

In this scenario, RCI can skim off the expensive units and use them for rentals. That is what the Weeks system does, enable skimming and rentals.

I am not saying that this is what occurs, but, for those who are forever suspicious of RCI and hate rentals, the worst thing that you can do is argue for the continuation of the one-for-one Weeks system.
 

bellesgirl

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All of my units across the board dropped at least 25-30%. As mentioned, I checked back several times, did refreshes, etc., and they didn't budge upward. On top of that, the week I extended just disappeared.

Tonight, it seems to be edging back upwards a bit.
I don't know if this is related, but I had a REALLY bizarre thing happen today.

I logged in and my numbers were down by about 50%!! For all my weeks! Then I realized that the weeks on deposit were for a totally different resort. I wish I had printed it, but my first reaction was to see if I was even in my own account, so I clicked to the account info to verify it. When I clicked back to the "search for a vacation" all seemed back to normal.

Very strange.
 

rickandcindy23

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Roger, I am feeling okay about the new system. My weeks that will probably get 15 in this new system will not be crazy expensive to use 2 to get a week at Shearwater, for example. If my fees are only $500 for a prime summer week, and I have to use two deposits to get a February Shearwater, then I will just do it. I have too many weeks anyway.

And if I want a Shearwater week with my RCI Points, the cost is MORE than my two PFD summer CO weeks are worth. If I have to give up more than two summer weeks to get Shearwater for February, I will have to sell my CO weeks. I used to see Shearwater with my Colorado summer weeks and that changed on 5/30/2009.

Perhaps RCI's explanation on their Inside RCI page about the new system is too simple, considering the few levels they show? There are too few "bands" in that article.

Carole Ablett of RCI specfically told me via an email message that there were now eight levels of trading power, and there were four before 5/30/2009. I see five levels between my two accounts, so I tend to believe her.
 
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Rene McDaniel

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Right now I see 143,000 units with my SoCal summer beach week, which has averaged 144-145K over the past couple of months. So, not much difference there.

It's a strong trader and sees all the DVC deposits. But I'm not sure that it's in the very highest trade band, because my San Francisco week can pull things that it can't. My SF deposit quickly pulled an exchange over the summer, so I don't have it to compare with right now.

--- Rene
 

BevL

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Where I've seen a drop is the difference in the number of units of my SoCal, which is still in the 140s and my Island park which has dropped from about 5K below that to about 7K below that.

Tweaking before they roll out the new system - who knows if it will equate to the number of "credits" our weeks will have after the change.
 

MichaelColey

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Increasing the number of bands is merely a technique for decreasing trading power.

If Carolinian is talking about the Weeks program, yes this (decreasing everyone's trading power) can happen. Fortunately that system is about to come to an end.

...

Summary -- Dividing into more bands will create winners and losers. There is no mathematical scenario in which everyone loses.
If you look at the extremes, it helps to understand the potential problems even better. The extremes would be:

1) A system with 1 band, where anyone can trade for anything, and

2) A system with an infinite number of bands, where every week at every resort has a different trading value and is in a different band.

The first example is excellent for people with a dog week at a lousy unit, because they can exchange into anything. It's horrible for people with a good week, because they have a lot more competition for good exchanges.

The second example has absolutely no flexibility. You can only trade down. The people with good weeks see almost no change. The people with lousy weeks are most impacted.

I think there's a good balance somewhere in the middle.

It sounds like RCI is moving from 6 bands to 56 bands (trading power 5, 6, 7, ..., 58, 59, 60). I really liked 6 bands, but I don't think it's going to make a whole lot of difference, especially with the new ability of getting change and being able to combine deposits and change.

Clarification: I saw someone post about this, and I just wanted to clarify that RCI is NOT (as far as I know) changing to a single band or an infinite number of bands. I just gave these extreme examples to help people understand how we are affected when RCI increases or decreases the number of bands.
 
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rapmarks

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haven't checked today yet, but last week I was down from all units pulling 128k to 98k, so it is probably going to be worse today.
 

Carolinian

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When you are charged a fee for using that change back, then nobody wins but RCI. That is why the best option is to vote with your feet if it becomes an exact number system. If the bands or ''range'' as it was called in the past remain, then it may be a closer argument about whether to stay with RCI or exclusively use other exchange companies.

While I would have agreed with you theoretically on your one band approach, the fact that DAE has eaten RCI's and II's lunch in Australia with that approach shows that in reality it does work.


If you look at the extremes, it helps to understand the potential problems even better. The extremes would be:

1) A system with 1 band, where anyone can trade for anything, and

2) A system with an infinite number of bands, where every week at every resort has a different trading value and is in a different band.

The first example is excellent for people with a dog week at a lousy unit, because they can exchange into anything. It's horrible for people with a good week, because they have a lot more competition for good exchanges.

The second example has absolutely no flexibility. You can only trade down. The people with good weeks see almost no change. The people with lousy weeks are most impacted.

I think there's a good balance somewhere in the middle.

It sounds like RCI is moving from 6 bands to 56 bands (trading power 5, 6, 7, ..., 58, 59, 60). I really liked 6 bands, but I don't think it's going to make a whole lot of difference, especially with the new ability of getting change and being able to combine deposits and change.
 
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