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anyone concerned about high supply of points and high demand of prime weeks?

elaine

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Here's what I keep wondering---all those mudweeks in backwoods where an owner could only trade for off-season placse, which are now sold as a lower points packages--or those mudweeks weeks which converted to points (so, say 40,000 points a year) and the owners can now "borrow" points from the next year, or "pool" two mudweeks to now have the points equivalent of "goodweek/good location" (or 80,000 points) and are competing in points to get the same xmas, spring break and summer weeks that "decent week" owner could get every year- a fair, equal exchange to what decent week purchased---
It seems that basic supply/demand is going to get really out of line.

Does anyone else wonder about this? Don't you think a lot of frustrated mudweek owners would be willing to forgo a vacation at a-la-yuck to get oo-la-la EOY?
 

timeos2

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It balances because the points have a cost

The points system is self balancing because the users know the costs both in point values and dollars they represent. If a mud week of 27,000 RCI point value wants a 3 bedroom, high demand week on the beach it will cost them maybe 72,000-100,000 points. Sure they can do it but the net cost will be 3 or 4 times the annual fee for those weeks. They may choose that for a special family trip one year but it's doubtful they'd do it every three or four years (which is all they could since they banked and borrowed two or three years worth to get enough for that super stay).

The other reasons that it all works is that top time owner who got 100,000 points for that beach or 3 bedroom ORLANDO week (couldn't help throwing that little dig in) may choose to use three or 4 or more stays at lesser demand times or smaller units to stretch out their value. They don't have to take the biggest and best in a one time, week for week trade as they get the full value of all their points no matter how they choose to spend them.

When owners have control they tend to be very wise in how they use the value and what they take out. Why reserve a 3 bedroom if you only need a 2 or 1 - it saves you points for the next trip.

No, I'm not concerned about the demand for the best times vs the influx of lesser times. In fact I see points as a way to give value to times that otherwise can't be justified for ownership provided the fees are reasonable. If the time is too low demand or the fees too high then even a good point systems can't save it and perhaps the value really is zero. The owners of the better times at that type of resort had better find a way to make the value of the mud times better on their own rather than depending on other owners to prop them up with unequal week for week trades. Or else they face far higher fees themselves as the poor week owners drop off the paying rolls and leave only the better times carrying the whole load. That is a local problem not a points/weeks/exchange issue.
 

Mel

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As John points out, the system should balance itself. Also, if RCI is smart (maybe they are, maybe not), they will adjust the system to balance properly. If too many people are looking for a particular exchange, and not enough deposites are made, they should increase the value for that deposit. This will both encourage the owners to deposit those units, and discourage some of those that wanted that exchange. When they find the right value, the supply and demand will balance.

The reverse is true as well - if they give certain deposits too much value, they will have an oversupply, and nobody wanting to use them. Some have complained that is just what RCI has done with some areas, and we will see how they handle it over time. It is not in their own best interest to "over-point" those areas, even if it keeps the developer happy.
 

rickandcindy23

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Elaine, I would call that a run-on sentence!

The points are too high for hawaii. For example, it takes more than a few of my blue weeks to get anything. I pay $416 MF's for my mud week and it is only worth 19,500 points in PFD. That won't get me much. But as a week, I can get a Hawaii week at the last minute for that. That is the bargain. There is more availability in weeks at the last minute because all the points' resorts are there, too.
 

elaine

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yes, I don't know that it is even a sentence!

I tried to cut it down---but gave up. I'm glad to hear others think supply will balance out--I still have my doubts---I would rather pay 2 years of maint. fees and get the beach in summer vs. 1 year of fees for the beach off-season.
 

brucecz

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We are not nearly as depentant on RCI Weeks and Points and will not use them as much as we did 3 years ago due to RCI's newer policies.

For those IMHO who think they are getting the value out of RCI compared to 5 years ago or even 3 years ago I think they are just conning them selves even if they are a RCI Point owner.

In regards to the balancing out the points inventory if you want to believe it is being done fairly I respectfully disagree.

In regards the RCI points awarded to each resort if you want to believe it is being done fairly I respectfully disagree based on the differant rents the would comand in regard to the rental dollars to RCI Points ratio.

Remember I have no agenda against RCI Points, RCI weeks, II and the independant exchange companies as I have access to all and have made exchanges with RCI Points, RCI weeks, II and the indeptants this year.

In regard to the OP questions about less high end exchanges being made through RCI.

Yes IMHO there is definately less because of the increasing volume of these demand weeks being offered to non timeshare owners through RCI's many authorized rental vendors.

More and more timeshare owners are aware of this fact and are not pleased with these rentals negitive effects in lessing what is available in the exchange pool.

I would venture to say that a few of us have obtained ownership of more timeshares because of the the increasing rental efforts and policies of RCI that has lessened the supply of the higher demanded weeks. We are buying were we want to go during peak demand times instead being at the (non) mercy of the exchange companies.

Several years before in RCI's terms and Conditions the old RCI catalog I think RCI did not flat out say that they could use any exchange inventory as their rental inventory as RCI do now proclaim.

I can tell you that our 5 yearly RCI floating Keys weeks along with our other about 15 to 20 bright red higher demand weeks will not be banked with RCI or any other independant exchange company because of the over all lack of availability and the lower quality exchanges now being offered.

One reason is that if your Easter, Presidents, Christmas or New Years weeks of ours are banked with RCI their is a very good chance that they not would be put in to the RCI exchange pool. They may be offered only for rent through one of RCI's many rental outlets.

Most of us have heard about the 15% commisions that some travel agents can make off the weeks we put with RCI for a hope for chance of a decent exchange.

We having bought and paid for those ownerships now control those 5 Keys weeks.

We bought our ownerships can now assure our selves of having these prime weeks to vacation at or rent them out and take that cash and rent what we want with that cash.

We do not have to HOPE to get a FAIR exchange from any exchange company. Cash in hand almost always trumps points or weeks for exchanges. Cash is King.

Seeing the high prices that RCI would put on these weeks if we deposited them it makes it far easier for lot of people like us to rent out our prime high demand holiday weeks than it was even 2 years before.

Especially in this year we have more RCI members say the main reason they are renting one of our many red weeks is if after banking what a couple of years ago what would be their Tiger Trader a year or more before their Tigers check in dates, they can not get the weeks they want similar to the weeks that we own from RCI like they could a few years ago.

These renters say not only our Keys weeks but a lot of our Wi Dells and our Door Wi. Summer weeks are now harder to exchange for than they were a few years ago. They say that all the prime week availbility appears to be down.

Fom talking to other owners like us many of us many of them are unhappy seeing their weeks being put up for rent by RCI without being put in to the owners exchange pool were they feel it belongs.

So others like us because of the newer RCI Policies are not depositing nearly as many of those prime high demand holiday weeks.

You can put some of the blame on people like me for a lessing availability of prime weeks being put into the exchange system.

If I was doing what I did a 2years ago RCI would be getting about 10 to 14 Red weeks instead of 4 or so of not so bright red weeks.

Before I deposit even those weeks I may go to II and see what they might pull with II's request before deposting which RCI does not have.

In our case our first group of 16 confirmed reservations for Summer Wi Dells weeks are not being given to any exchange company. Only 4 are now left for our own personal use. On the about 6 to 8 other Summer weeks we may be able to pick up after the first group rolls of the Bluegreen reservation books maybe a few will be used for exchanges with various exchange companies.

We wish you all good luck in getting the exchanges that you want.

Bruce :D
 
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BillR

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The points are too high for hawaii. For example, it takes more than a few of my blue weeks to get anything. I pay $416 MF's for my mud week and it is only worth 19,500 points in PFD. That won't get me much. But as a week, I can get a Hawaii week at the last minute for that. That is the bargain. There is more availability in weeks at the last minute because all the points' resorts are there, too.

The USA marketplace is unlike any other country in the world - supply and demand rules - if RCI or II or CT exchange or DAE or SFX . . . etc. do not have supply to offer at a reasonable price, they will fall.

I owe a week at a fabulous resort at the Lake of the Ozarks - GOLF CROWN -2 Bedroom,2 baths, large deck on the lake with an electric grill on each deck - free access to pontoon and fishing boats (except for gas) etc. etc.; I LOVE my week at this resort. The problem is, this week is kind of a mud week.

$505.00 MF would get me 27000 RCI points - not good! It trades well in Branson or Orlando, but what doesn't? I can get wonderful trades into new developments - but who can't. The time we visit this floating week resort is in April, or May, or September and or October.

I have four weeks in this resort this year - one week is mine with $505.00 MF, another cost me 33,500 points (at my cost of $.068/Point) plus $99.00 = $326.80, 1 week with a last call @ 229.00, 1 week with an RCI trade with $387.00 MF plus $149.00(then) exchange fee - $536.00.

CURRENT INVENTORY:
(MY OWNERSHIP) - $505.00
(WEEKS) STUDIO (387.00MF) - 3 -2BR's and 1 -1 BR available in next 5 weeks. COST 387.00 +164.00 = $551.00
(WEEKS) LAST CALL - 1 - 2 BR AND 1- 1 BR - 2BR $239.00
(POINTS)STANDARD - NO AVAILIBILITY
(POINTS)WEEKS - 3 -2BR's and 1 -1 BR available in next 5 weeks. $326.80 AS PER ABOVE
(POINTS) LAST CALL - 1 - 2 BR AND 1- 1 BR - 2BR $239.00

The point I am trying to make is this: THIS RESORT IS LOSING ME. LATER THIS YEAR I WILL GET A QUICK CLAIM DEED AND RETURN THE PROPERTY TO
THE RESORT. THEIR MAINTENANCE FEES ARE TOO HIGH. THE VALUE FOR THIS PROPERTY, for my wife and I, IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

We all have problems with exchange companies, maintenance fees, resort management companies, unscrupulous sales presentations and salespeople who do not tell the whole truth.

The exchange companies have problems - too much inventory . . . too little inventory . . . retirement of the babyboomers . . . how do you please everyone . . . members AND stockholders+

The timeshares themselves have problems - auction companies who sell intervals for next to nothing. The retirement of the babyboomers . . . increased costs . . . new tax probablities . . . intense competition . . . very little new sales to replenish their reserves. . . . etc.etc.etc.

We could go on and on, but . . . what we have here is a democratic society and supply and demand - quality versus pretensioness - value versus extravagance - etc.etc.etc.

WE WILL SURVIVE - ALL OF US EXCEPT THE WEAK LINKS.​

I love that timeshare in the Ozarks. I will continue to vacation there. The difference is that they will not be receiving monies from me anymore. They will have to adapt and down the road I will have to analyze AGAIN.
 

"Roger"

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I tried to cut it down---but gave up. I'm glad to hear others think supply will balance out--I still have my doubts---I would rather pay 2 years of maint. fees and get the beach in summer vs. 1 year of fees for the beach off-season.
Try this. What would you prefer... Pay two fairly low maintenence fees and get to go to the beach every other year or pay one higher maintenence fee, go to the beach during a shoulder season and get a one bedroom winter getaway at a decent (but not spectacular) Florida resort every year.

(You might still prefer the former, but many would choose the latter.)
 

Carol C

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Elaine your post is poetry with nice flow *and* good info to boot!

I tried to cut it down---but gave up. I'm glad to hear others think supply will balance out--I still have my doubts---I would rather pay 2 years of maint. fees and get the beach in summer vs. 1 year of fees for the beach off-season.

I think it balances out somewhat because there are empty nesters and others without kids who prefer shoulder season trips. And as for the off-seasons, there are often conventions and other "draws" for mudseason weeks. Or the units go empty and are hopefully repainted or re-carpeted during the down time.

As for Hawaii, it's going to be high demand year-round, as folks who own there to rent out know very well. It's also like pulling teeth to get frequent flier tix to Hawaii (I know, I tried and scored but not without numerous phone calls.) The supply/demand equation for Hawaii is simply not a good example of the phenomenon Elaine is talking about; Hawaii is in a class all its own.
 

Haggis

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Perspective from a Newbie - & a request for directions.

Liked this thread - good to see a healthy dialogue from both perspectives.

While I'm a school-age parent & therefore tied to the school year, I serve many older clients and their idea of Peak differs substantially from mine. And If I were a retiree using weeks or points, I'd probably prefer to use shoulder season & avoid the summer rush & peak heat in Orlando or elsewhere. I expect that this is where some of the balance is gained for exchange companies and owners; not everyone is attempting to go to Hilton Head / Disney, Daytona, etc. on the 4th of July.

It occurs to me that from a long-term perspective, weeks would have greater sustained value than points; If you own week 26 at say Barony Beach, well, you own week 26 at Barony Beach; whereas I see little that would prohibit a resort or exchange company from continuously escalating their point requirement for any given week or exchange (I'm new, so others could certainly attest I'm sure). Certainly the maintenance fees can be raised and special assessments can cut into the weeks value, but my guess would be that this probably happens at a more moderate pace than the modification to points requirements.

Now if may I be so bold as to ask for directions: Either to a different thread, or maybe an external link. We acquired 2 weeks this year and have access to 4 more, but our weeks are II and the others are RCI Weeks not Points. I would like to be able to gain some perspective on the value of Points (just in case I decided to buy some) but I can't find a link or thread that gives me any guideline or benchmark. The response may simply be that you have to own points to access RCI Points system in order to see the requirements and there are no external tables or grids: Thanks for any help you can provide.

Why so many you ask - well we generously use them as a benefit for employees of the firm.

Cheers, Allan
 

elaine

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RCI points--look at sticky at top of this BB, also RCI online

the "sticky" at the tops has the RCI "generic" grid. This is the grid for how much a week costs in points if it is not in the points system. For those resorts in the points system, you can pull a resort up online thru the RCI directory, then click on RCI points (usually at middle of screen above occupancy table) and see how many points a resort requires.

Most are pretty standard (ex. 2 Br Hilton HEAd summer will be about 80,000 (+/- )points, most williamsburg, ORlando, etc. resorts for same season and same unit, quality will be about the same number of points.

You have to Own points to be able to get points resorts---there are tons for resale---just make sure the resort allows the new owner to keep as points and does not require another "conversion" fee---its varies--some do, some don't.
 

"Roger"

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....

It occurs to me that from a long-term perspective, weeks would have greater sustained value than points; If you own week 26 at say Barony Beach, well, you own week 26 at Barony Beach; whereas I see little that would prohibit a resort or exchange company from continuously escalating their point requirement for any given week or exchange (I'm new, so others could certainly attest I'm sure)....
Allan,

I'm just going to respond to this one part of your post. My comment just concerns RCI Points.

If RCI were to raise the point value of Barony Beach (week 26), as an owner, you end up a winner. That is because they will always give you the same number of points that it would cost an outsider to obtain your week. (There are some minor exceptions to this, not relevant to your post.)

At this point, it is not unusual for someone to ask what happens if RCI raises the point value of every week. The answer is that it would be a total wash. Every week would require more points to obtain, but every owner would have that many more points to spend.

The worst case scenario would be for RCI to raise the point value of every week but your own. That (in less extreme scenarios - many weeks are raised, but not your own) could happen, but the cause of it would have to be that your resort is falling out of favor. The same thing could happen in Weeks, it is just that you are not told that the trading power of your week has fallen.

Hope this helps dispell some of the mysteries of Points.
 

rickandcindy23

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I tried to cut it down---but gave up. I'm glad to hear others think supply will balance out--I still have my doubts---I would rather pay 2 years of maint. fees and get the beach in summer vs. 1 year of fees for the beach off-season.

I was just joking, of course. :) I am always the English teacher, as many of you know already. Elaine knew I did not mean to offend.

I know someone who bought several blue weeks in a Silver Crown resort, with maintenance fees of only $212 per week, just to use them as PFD. He gets his value from them, that is for sure. But I can get just as good a value by using that blue week as a week-for-week exchange, and I have almost a guarantee of getting the exact dates I want, three weeks out. Airfare from Denver is cheaper, too. I am better off in weeks than points. I just love to plan in advance. I have 2008 already booked in Hawaii!

Our points exchanges have been really great; I am happy with points. I just know what my blue week can do and it is amazing, for the price we pay.
 

elaine

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yes--none taken--we are all pals here!

I knew better and just didn't care! Gotta let loose sometimes!
 

Sandy

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Confused at first by Cindy's divergent opinions

Our points exchanges have been really great; I am happy with points. I just know what my blue week can do and it is amazing, for the price we pay.


Hi Cindy. I was confused by your above comment in being pretty happy with points, compared with your comment in the post elsewhere being furious with RCI, both posted on the same day. Then I realized that happy post was earlier than the furious post which was posted after 11 pm, and I assume that your feelings reflected your anger after getting off of the phone with them.

I am really trying to follow these threads on points problems and succeses, since I am in both points and weeks. The discussion and opinions are lively, and I continue to learn from TUG.
 

rickandcindy23

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Yes, I am definitely angry about the Instant Exchanges costing so much in points last night! But I am hoping it is a glitch and that RCI is going to fix it. Their system is not consistent at all. If they changed this and did not tell us, that just isn't right. If what another poster heard from RCI is true, that holiday weeks are exempt from the 9,000 point exchanges, we were never told that at all. I don't like RCI changing the rules in the middle of the game.
 
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