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Am I missing anything?

zazz

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I have been researching timeshares for a while. Went on a couple of presentations (not to buy, just to look). At this point I cannot seem to decide whether or not we should buy. So maybe its not my bag or maybe I am not getting the whole picture of the benefits.

The wife and I take two significant vacations a year, spring and fall. Seldom the same place twice. Our trips are very rarely beach or resorts. We have done Paris, London, Italy, Tokyo, SF, LA. There was a trip to Vegas and a cruise that we didn't enjoy in the slightest. We will have the odd weekender to NYC or DC.

So if we bought anything, it would have to be a great trader. I would think that I could get into something that I could perhaps swap for a couple of weeks elsewhere. But I read here that you shouldn't buy to trade. I am also finding that timeshare hotels in cities are not as easy to come by.

So am I missing some of the benefits or am I just coming to the conclusion that this isn't necessarily my thing?
 
Timeshare is a lot more than visiting the same resort location every year. But it sounds like if you wanted to TS that you do best in a "mini system". These are a group of resorts which are all managed by a single company in which owners can go to any of the resort locations without having to trade with an outside trading company like RCI or II. There are many of these mini systems like Hilton, Starwood, Worldmark, and many others.

Timesharing may not be for you but if you like to stay for more than 3-5 days in a location and have much bigger suites than you can get at a hotel, then look into Timeshares.

The two rules of buying a TS are:
1. Get educated before buying. The saleman at TS are there to do one thing "sell" they aren't there to help you find what right for you or even what is the best deal for you.

2. BUY RESALE and save thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of dollars.

Good Luck
 
The wife and I take two significant vacations a year, spring and fall. Seldom the same place twice. Our trips are very rarely beach or resorts. We have done Paris, London, Italy, Tokyo, SF, LA. There was a trip to Vegas and a cruise that we didn't enjoy in the slightest. We will have the odd weekender to NYC or DC.

You have one thing favor you in TS. Your travel time is spring and fall, right pass the summer.

You have one thing against you in TS. You like big city which has very less TS at all. To think you can get one in exchange will need really a lot of work.

You have one thing that is good and bad - you don't need to be in the same place twice. So get a TS for visit it most of the time is not an option. use it to exchange, and if there is an exchange opportunity come up, you can get it and no need to worry about get it 2nd time. However, the places you have gone indicates you have very little chance to get any exchange.

At this moment, I believe you should try find a good travel agent and use it instead of TS. Or wait for another few years when TS become really like hotel, all big name company has something around the major city, which may take another 30 years.

Jya-Ning
 
Jya-Ning is right - NYC and DC, Boston, plenty of other big cities, have few or no timeshares. If big city is what you want, timeshares may not be for you.
 
Jya-Ning is right - NYC and DC, Boston, plenty of other big cities, have few or no timeshares. If big city is what you want, timeshares may not be for you.

That's kinda what I figured. As much BS as the sales folks try and feed you about how you can exchange 'anywhere' I always thought that it was not quite so.
 
When you did stay in a resort, did you like it? Do hotel rooms work for you?

Space is the biggest reason I like timeshares. Mine are all 2 bedrooms but I would at least want a 1 bedroom and a separate living/kitchen area. We have stayed in some very nice hotels, one was the Sofetel in Sydney. Very nice, very expensive for my tastes and I felt like I was cramed in a sardine can and it was only 3 days. Its the same reason I would never take a 16 day cruise to Hawaii when its 10 days at sea going from the mainland to Hawaii. I can only take at the most 2 days at sea.

I like kitchens w/fridges. I like to have breakfast (milk) in my robe, preferably out on the patio. I dont like to watch tv in my bedroom and I dont eat in bed. I like the cheese/crackers snacks w/wine or cold beer in the afternoon or after a long hike or whatever.

You dont say if you have any kids or are close with your family. I like timeshares because I have enough room for my family to be altogether. Even if I have to get 2 timeshares. We will playing card games on the diningroom table, while others are watching a ballgame and the kids are in the loft or at the pool.

Timeshares arent for everyone, no one is right or wrong. For example at my work, Im for timeshares, #2 would rather spend vacations either in a place like the Princeville Hotel or on his houseboat on Lake Powell and #3 would rather spend his vacation in a tent. It takes alot of effort and time to learn how to use them wisely. Do you want to put forth the effort? From what you have told us, many timeshares wouldnt be good for you.

If you did decide you wanted to buy a timeshare I would either look into something like Worldmark (points) or Marriott. I dont own Marriott, so you will have to ask that board. #4 coworker has bought all his timeshares from Marriott, he uses his points for hotels when traveling to the larger cities in Europe. Im pretty sure he has paid too much for his timeshares (buying from Marriott) but Im not sure if that system would have enough advantages for you. :confused:

You might want to give us more information, why you are even considering timesharing. This is one of the few places that wont try to sway you one direction or another.
 
When you did stay in a resort, did you like it? Do hotel rooms work for you?

My biggest problem with a resort was not the quality of the place but that I got bored. I don't do golf or tennis or swimming. I like checking out the sights, seeing shows, taking the wife shopping. So if I can't have something within at least reasonable proximity to a large city, I won't consider it.

Space is the biggest reason I like timeshares. Mine are all 2 bedrooms but I would at least want a 1 bedroom and a separate living/kitchen area. We have stayed in some very nice hotels, one was the Sofetel in Sydney. Very nice, very expensive for my tastes and I felt like I was cramed in a sardine can and it was only 3 days.

Space is nice, but I never spend much time in a hotel room. A kitchen would be nice. There is also the consideration of the variable level of quality I tend to run into in hotels where I have stayed.

You dont say if you have any kids or are close with your family. I like timeshares because I have enough room for my family to be altogether. Even if I have to get 2 timeshares. We will playing card games on the diningroom table, while others are watching a ballgame and the kids are in the loft or at the pool.

No kids (that I know of), not really any family. Most of my friends are married with kids so they do different things than I do. For them a week down the beach is great, while I would probably shoot myself before the week was up.

You might want to give us more information, why you are even considering timesharing. This is one of the few places that wont try to sway you one direction or another.

I went to a couple of presentations. While I thought the cost from the developer was obscene, afterwards I saw a lot of the prices on Ebay. So I wanted to see if it was at all possible to make this work for me.
 
But don't rule out purchasing a Points program of one of the major companies such as Fairfield, Marriott, Starwood, etc... I suggest you take the time to study what each has to offer. There is a lot of information here at TUG. And many Points owners have established Yahoo groups to share information. One example is the Fairfield Yahoo group. Membership is free but you must fill out a simple form requesting to become a member.

Most experienced timeshare owners generally feel that is is better to buy Points on the resale market. It's often times 80-90% cheaper than buying from the developer. There may be some reduction in the "perks" available to resale purchasers but generally not enough to justify paying full price.

If you choose to become a full (vs. free) member of TUG, you will gain access to the "Resort Reviews" section which contains thousands of reviews of 3500+ timeshare properties all over the world. You can see what timeshares exist in areas of interest and then read the reviews to see which, if any, provide the atmosphere, amenities, and convenience you are seeking.

Since you are planning to vacation in what is considered in the world of timesharing to be the "off season" months (children are in school) you have a good chance of obtaining reservations at some of the most desirable timeshares, if you invest enough time and energy to learn the rules of the Points-based program you purchase. If you can begin searching well in advance, it increases your chance of success. And conversely, if you can make a travel decision on short notice (within 45 days or even closer to the check in date) you may find some great last minute cancellations or unreserved weeks--and they will require use of far less of your points, thus yielding more vacation days per year.

You would need to buy enough Points in the system which has the best inventory in the areas you would like to visit. Some of the hotel-affiliated programs such as Marriott Vacation Club, Hilton Grand Vacation Club, and Starwood allow you to reserve hotel rooms using your "timeshare" points when there is no timeshare unit available at your desired location.

Hubby and I have stayed in timeshare units in or close to London (Chelsea district-- a short walk to Buckingham Palace and Harrod's), Venice, Rome, Assisi, Copenhagen, and Paris. We have also stayed at timeshares that were in small towns and villages within a decent drive of major European cities--Mougins in the south of France, West Sussex between Brighton and London, and Miterfels and Oberstaufen in east and west Germany, respectively. These resorts almost always have day or overnight tours available to nearby major cities and touristic attractions. However, we always had a rental car and went exploring on our own. We did day (and occasionally overnight) trips to Munich, Regensburg, Rothenburg, Prague, Salzburg, Lake Como, Lagano Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Naples, Nice, Cannes, Monte Carlo, Malmo and Stockholm etc...We brought bathing suits with us on each trip but rarely found time for the beach or pool. We can do that back home. Why waste time that could be spent exploring all the history and culture and world famous sites of Europe?

While we started out wanting to stay in big cities, we soon found that we had a much more "authentic" and enjoyable experience staying in timeshares in little known towns and villages. We ate at local restaurants, shopped in local stores, attended local churches, plays, concerts, etc.. The staff at these timeshare resorts are accustomed to catering to timeshare owners from all over the world. They usually hold an Orientation meeting the day after most of the guests arrive, and talk about and distribute well-written hand-outs (in several different languages) containing recommendations about what to see and do in the area, including driving and/or public transportation directions, where to shop and dine, tips on cultural customs, etc...The staff is also available on a daily basis to answer questions and make suggestions. Since their salaries are paid for by the owners of the timeshare units, it is expected that the advice the staff gives is honest, and does not involve any "kickbacks" from the establishments they recommend.

We found the local villagers to be very friendly, and genuinely interested in having conversations with us about life in our country, and theirs. We also enjoyed the more relaxed and intimate interaction with the other people from around the world, who had exchanged into the timeshares where we were staying. Timeshare ownership seems to create a special bond. There are usually a lot of demographic similarities. People readily ask where you own and where you have exchanged. These experiences are, I think, much harder to come by at a chain hotel in a large city. We have much better memories of our vacations spent in the timeshares in little known towns.

We live in the New York City area and have maintained on-going contact for almost 10 years with a then-police officer (now Chief of Police in a major Germany city), and a fiesty union leader from Sydney Australia whom we met at European timeshares.

Keep in mind that your vacation wishes may change. After you have been to most of the major cities in Europe, you may consider the airfare and hassles of international travel to be more trouble than it's worth. There are so many nice places to visit in the U.S. and Canada. There are also cities in Mexico that are known for their beaches but are near many historical sites (Mayan ruins, Merida--with all its Spanish conquest history and beautiful bulidings plus vibrant daily life). We have also been on timeshare vacations to Hawaii (each of the 4 major islands), Sedona and Phoenix Arizona, all over California, Vancouver, Alexandria Virginia, Willaimsburg, Cape Cod, the Berkshire and Pocono Mountains, and all over Florida plus many other places. Vacations to these areas are quite easy to accomplish via Points in the right systems. And it's nice to go on several drive-to weekend getaways.

These are some of the lesser known aspects of timeshare ownership that may, or may not, appeal to you.
 
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I'm glad that some of you pointed out that the hotel-based timeshares allow hotel usage - I wasn't sure of that but it definitely sounds like the way to go for zazz to get the best of both worlds to fit his needs.

I would agree that a points system is a better fit for you, if only for booking partial weeks - 7 nights anywhere might be too much for you. Having separate rooms keeps me and hubby from being bored because we can each bring our hobbies and have the space to do them without disturbing the other. If your hobbies include something you could bring along, think how nice it would be to have that second bedroom for Your Stuff! Of course, this may be completely impractical for what you like to do, but I throw it out there for your consideration.

I agree that shopping in a small town can be a great deal of fun - you find things that would never appear in a big city, or you would never run across! Some of our best trips have been places I'd never heard of before. We very much enjoy exploring small towns as they have charm and personality that you don't find in the big cities (don't get me wrong, every big city definitely has a personality!). Honestly, I just like the slower pace. Again, this may be in direct contrast to your wishes if you need action and adventure and things happening all the time. But you could conceivably stay in a small town and have interesting cities a short drive in any direction.

Plenty of the resorts that RCI ranks Gold Crown are GC because of the large list of amenities - this may or may not equate to "fun" for you, but it's something worth knowing about as you look around.

My curiosity piqued, what do you like to do on vacation? Shopping, restaurants, theater, museums, parks... ?
 
It sounds like a Royal Holiday Club membership might be a good option for you. Royal Holiday Club is a "right to use" membership, which means it is not deeded for life but rather for a certain amount of time. RHC memberships are sold for 30 year usage. You can purchase a membership resale for whatever is left on the seller's membership. I bought mine with 20 years remaining.

RHC has a lot of locations in big cities. I purchased mine for the purpose of staying in Manhattan. There are 3 properties there at this time. RHC contracts with hotels & resorts for their members' usage. The list of properties changes from time to time, but they tend to have more more cosmopolitan locations. In addition to being able to use the hotels within the rhc network, you can exchange your points through RCI.
 
My curiosity piqued, what do you like to do on vacation? Shopping, restaurants, theater, museums, parks... ?

My last long vacation was to Italy. Pretty typical. Three days in Rome, three in Florence, two in Venice and two in Milan. My wife likes classical music and fashion. I like museums, historical sites and sports. So that;s roughly how it went. Checked out Italian boutiques, took in a show at La Scala as well as a small municipal symphony in Milan. Did the rounds in Venice. Did a lot of museums and ruins. Missed the soccer due to timing issues.

Hotel point systems would be fine if I can get them affordably. But I was under the impression that the hotel companies pretty tightly regulated the price. Not really seeing any Marriott or Starwood at knock-down prices.
 
IMHO, everyone can make everything work. It may not worth the effort though.

One possibility to make it work for you is you purchase some beach week in summer time, with the intend to rent it out, and cover your MF, and make some money for travel.

But that put you in a situation where you risk the MF change, hotel price hold, SA, and unfortuantely times that it does not rent out. I assume you don't mean to take a path like this.

Not Marriott, HGVC Starwood hotel point based owner. But if I am not mistake, they require the retail purchase. And it means they take your week and do the rent and try to give you a hotel room in return. Usually, it works good at new purchase, after a while, it does not work out nicely since there are so many factors in this equation, and turn out it make more sense for you to rent out yourself and get the cash to pay the hotel.

You can also buy enough system(s) that covers all the cities you like. For example, my FF covers, DC, New Port-RI, Williamsburg, Orlandon, Mytel Beach, Banson, LA, San Dieago, Nashville, Honolulu, New Orleans, San Antonio, Las Vagas, Most you can get at 10 month period. My new acquired Royal Holiday Club supposely covers New York, San Fransico, Cairo, Florence , London, Istanbul, Mexico City, Montreal, Paris, Rome. Although I have yet to figure out the availability of all these cities and some may not worth the points. Yes, they are all point systems, FF is more flexible then RHC. However, I can assure you, it does take some works to string split weeks together. And for 2 person travel, it often more easier to join in a travel group or get those Air+hotel+car package.

You probably want to collecting all your travel bill together to see your travel patten. Find out how much you pay for lodge, and how many times it is seperated from those package, and try to make some reasonable adjustment to see if you seperate them, what will be your cost. You need to add the increased airline ticket also.

Then you can use 10 year pay off model
Purchase price/10 + MF + adjust airline ticket < your package cost * a factor. You can use 2/3 as the safety factor. Most MF is from $300 to $700 (including exchange cost and some other cost). If you could not make that equation works, it is not worth the effort.

Jya-Ning
 
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It sounds like a Royal Holiday Club membership might be a good option for you. Royal Holiday Club is a "right to use" membership, which means it is not deeded for life but rather for a certain amount of time. RHC memberships are sold for 30 year usage. You can purchase a membership resale for whatever is left on the seller's membership. I bought mine with 20 years remaining.

RHC has a lot of locations in big cities. I purchased mine for the purpose of staying in Manhattan. There are 3 properties there at this time. RHC contracts with hotels & resorts for their members' usage. The list of properties changes from time to time, but they tend to have more more cosmopolitan locations. In addition to being able to use the hotels within the rhc network, you can exchange your points through RCI.

Looking at their website, it might not be a bad way to go. They seem to have more availability than your standard RCI catalog. Do you know how many points you need to make it worthwhile? I have seen 15K packages on sale on Ebay, I wonder if that would get you anything. I would hate to have to combine two or three to get a stay since then the maintenance fees start to eat into any benefits.

I will look at it and run a quick DCF to see if there is a monetary benefit.
 
Looking at their website, it might not be a bad way to go.

If you are in their website, click on resorts, select detail of any resort you want go, and click on detail, you can check the credits. So you will see the chart.

However, remember, most of the time, they just lease a few units in that place you are looking. It maybe the same as RCI, maybe a little better.

There is an operation guide in http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38292

You can also do some search on this bbs for RHC. For the resort they lease, it does not mean it will show at certain time. They have only few resorts they actually has a lot of inventories.

Jya-Ning
 
My biggest problem with a resort was not the quality of the place but that I got bored. I don't do golf or tennis or swimming. I like checking out the sights, seeing shows, taking the wife shopping. So if I can't have something within at least reasonable proximity to a large city, I won't consider it.

It all depends on what kind of a vacation I do. For example when we went to Arizona. Everyday saw something different, Oak Creek Canyon, Sedona, Monument Valley, and of course the Grand Canyon. We like to hike some, so this was good for us. Or Hawaii, everyday something. Most of the time I wake up before Cody, so I like the idea of getting up and having breakfast and for a swim w/o having to wake him up. We usually will spend one day just lazying around the condo. We dont golf or play tennis, I like to go swimming, it helps my back.

Space is nice, but I never spend much time in a hotel room. A kitchen would be nice. There is also the consideration of the variable level of quality I tend to run into in hotels where I have stayed.

I love the kitchens. There is a thread for kitchens from doesnt matter to pros and cons.




I went to a couple of presentations. While I thought the cost from the developer was obscene, afterwards I saw a lot of the prices on Ebay. So I wanted to see if it was at all possible to make this work for me.

Yes, resale is the best.

My coworker with all the Marriots. Is planning a trip to Aus/New Zealand. He will use 2 weeks of timeshares and the rest hotels.

Remember just take your time.
 
Zazz,

Some on here have said that 30,000 Royal Holiday points works for them. I don't think 15,000 would be worthwhile. I have 60,000 that I bought at the end of last year. If you wait until the end of the year, you will usually find better deals on ebay. The annual fees are due in January, so people try and sell before they are due. I paid $1635 for 60,000 points, but it came with all of last year's points rolled over. So, I have 120,000 points to use this year. I plan on renting part of them out to cover the cost. They allow you to rent out whatever you reserve. Another tug member got 60,000 points the week before that for under $1,000.

The annual fee is higher obviously for a bigger points package, but then you are paying less per point. I am very happy with the 60,000 points. I can get several long weekends in NYC for that. My annual fee is $995 per year. It would cost me that much for one 3 night stay if I booked directly through the hotel.

abc
 
Zazz,

Some on here have said that 30,000 Royal Holiday points works for them. I don't think 15,000 would be worthwhile. I have 60,000 that I bought at the end of last year. If you wait until the end of the year, you will usually find better deals on ebay. The annual fees are due in January, so people try and sell before they are due. I paid $1635 for 60,000 points, but it came with all of last year's points rolled over. So, I have 120,000 points to use this year. I plan on renting part of them out to cover the cost. They allow you to rent out whatever you reserve. Another tug member got 60,000 points the week before that for under $1,000.

The annual fee is higher obviously for a bigger points package, but then you are paying less per point. I am very happy with the 60,000 points. I can get several long weekends in NYC for that. My annual fee is $995 per year. It would cost me that much for one 3 night stay if I booked directly through the hotel.

abc

Just looking at the credits required to do just about anything I would want, I tend to agree that I would probably need 60K or so to have anything worthwhile. THanks.
 
it sounds like you enjoy diverse vacations. we bought into the starwood vacation ownership program because it gave us the flexibility to go on 3-5 night stays at the ts and to use the starpoints which gave us all the hotels in the starwood system all over the world.

if that sounds right for you, then you will have to by directly from the developer if you only want one. if you want to have multiple weeks than you could buy a resale and then a developer week and requalify the resale.

if you are interested in a developer i can give you a great salesperson,so you can pm me.
 
it sounds like you enjoy diverse vacations. we bought into the starwood vacation ownership program because it gave us the flexibility to go on 3-5 night stays at the ts and to use the starpoints which gave us all the hotels in the starwood system all over the world.

if that sounds right for you, then you will have to by directly from the developer if you only want one. if you want to have multiple weeks than you could buy a resale and then a developer week and requalify the resale.

if you are interested in a developer i can give you a great salesperson,so you can pm me.

The flexibility of buying through the developer is nice. But its something that I wouldn't do. Under the discounted cash flow that I built when I first visited a timeshare presentation, it would take me a minimum of 40 years to just break even. And that is using pretty aggressive assumptions.
 
i have to disagree with you, i have recouped 2 of my timeshares and half of the other by using the starpoints for extra vacations. i added up the basic standard room dollar amount and all the first class upgrades over the past 4 years and they have been "paid off". i am working on the last one this year.that is the benefit of purchasing a developer week(the starpoint sales incentives)if you use starpoints wisely it can be very beneficial and opens the entire world where starwood goes. so after this year they will have all been "paid off" and the mf's will be easy to cover in the following years and then all the vacations will put me way ahead of the game.
 
i have to disagree with you, i have recouped 2 of my timeshares and half of the other by using the starpoints for extra vacations. i added up the basic standard room dollar amount and all the first class upgrades over the past 4 years and they have been "paid off". i am working on the last one this year.that is the benefit of purchasing a developer week(the starpoint sales incentives)if you use starpoints wisely it can be very beneficial and opens the entire world where starwood goes. so after this year they will have all been "paid off" and the mf's will be easy to cover in the following years and then all the vacations will put me way ahead of the game.


I am not sure how you value upgrades and whatnot. I don't attach a lot of value to a room upgrade since its likely that I would gain little marginal benefit from it. I don't know the program as well, but on the surface, the value to me would be minimal.

For me I do a pretty simple analysis involving spending $2000 per year on hotel rooms (I have never spent close to that in a year, but I wanted to be aggressive.

I am not sure how much value I attach to 'extra vacations'. I take two a year not because of money but because of time. Again, I don't know the program so I don't know how that would work.
 
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