• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Airbus Retiring Its Jaw-Dropping Giant, the A380, in an Industry Gone Nimble

RNCollins

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
3,336
Reaction score
1,202
Location
Borscht Belt
Resorts Owned
Tradewinds, Quarter House, Casa Ybel
Airbus Retiring Its Jaw-Dropping Giant, the A380, in an Industry Gone Nimble
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/business/airbus-a380.html

By Amie Tsang and David Segal / Business / The New York Times / nytimes.com / 2/14/2019

“TOULOUSE, France — Since a solo flight by the Wright brothers on the shore of North Carolina more than a century ago, the size of airplanes has gone in one direction — up. But the era of ever larger jets, and the romantic idea of continent-hopping travel they inspired, came to an unofficial end with the announcement by Airbus on Thursday that it plans to cease production of the A380, the largest passenger airliner ever built.

An engineering marvel expansive enough for showers and sleekly designed bars, the planes hark back to the age when flying had glamour. The four engines are powerful enough to reach cruising altitude in roughly 15 minutes, all the while keeping noise to a tolerable hum. There are fan clubs for the A380 on both Twitter and Facebook.

But for years, the jet has been far more popular with passengers than airlines. When it debuted in 2005, the A380 was a bet that the future of air travel was big planes flying between major hubs, followed by connectors to final destinations.

Instead, the dominant trend became smaller planes and direct flights. Dropping $445 million for a jet — the A380’s list price — that can carry more than 500 people made little economic sense, especially as budget airlines cropped up as competition.

Airbus, which is based in Toulouse, struggled to market the A380 for years and never sold one to an American carrier. Citing reduced orders from Emirates Airline, a major customer, and an inability to find other buyers, the company said it would halt deliveries of the jetliner in 2021. (It will continue to support existing A380s.)...”

FA7EFF5C-F13E-4404-BA29-A4F83946FC32.jpeg

Airbus spent $25 billion developing the double-decker, four-engine aircraft, which can carry more than 500 passengers while offering amenities like showers and a bar.
Photo Credit: Michael Nagle for The New York Times
 

Sapper

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
758
Location
Houston, TX
The A380 never should have been built, everyone knew it was an economic disaster from the word go. I remember when the A380 was announced an interview with the CEO of Boeing, and they asked him if it was a threat to Boeing. He said no, that the future of commercial aviation was smaller aircraft (like the B737 series) servicing more airports. The competitive advantage the A380 had was economy per seat mile. Boeing revised their systems design (removed bleed air from leading edge heat and PACS, replacing with an additional generator on the engines and electrically operating the heat and PACS). Boeing's design change removed the A380 competitive advantage of economy per seat mile. This advantage was further eroded when you consider that to fill 95% of the seats on an A380 takes 475 people wanting to go the the same place at the same time, where Boeing's smaller aircraft require fewer passengers to make the break even point.
 

WhatTheDogSaid

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
23
Location
California
Resorts Owned
HGVC Boulevard Las Vegas
HGVC Elara
Agreed on the technical and economic points above, but it is a magnificent airplane from the passenger’s perspective.
 

Sapper

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
758
Location
Houston, TX
Agreed on the technical and economic points above, but it is a magnificent airplane from the passenger’s perspective.

Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to fly one, in the front or in the back.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,654
Reaction score
8,647
Location
Belly-View, WA
The A380 never should have been built, everyone knew it was an economic disaster from the word go. I remember when the A380 was announced an interview with the CEO of Boeing, and they asked him if it was a threat to Boeing. He said no, that the future of commercial aviation was smaller aircraft (like the B737 series) servicing more airports. The competitive advantage the A380 had was economy per seat mile. Boeing revised their systems design (removed bleed air from leading edge heat and PACS, replacing with an additional generator on the engines and electrically operating the heat and PACS). Boeing's design change removed the A380 competitive advantage of economy per seat mile. This advantage was further eroded when you consider that to fill 95% of the seats on an A380 takes 475 people wanting to go the the same place at the same time, where Boeing's smaller aircraft require fewer passengers to make the break even point.
I, too, remember the discussions and commentaries concerning Boeing when the A380 was developed. There were many "experts" who believed that Boeing was compelled to respond, with a competing aircraft; if Boeing didn't, Boeing would be left in the dust.

After discussion and evaluations, Boeing came up with the conclusions mentioned. Boeing instead concluded that airlines were going to do more point-to-point connections on routes that had significant traffic, but didn't warrant an A-380. Or by flying a somewhat smaller aircraft, the airline could provide daily flights instead of partial week schedules, or schedule two flights per day instead of one. This would be driven by providing greater convenience to travelers by avoiding congested major hubs.

So Boeing's response was to develop the 787 Dreamliner, a smaller airplane but with technical innovations that made it cost competitive with the A-380. The 787 project had numerous delays, but when Boeing finally rolled it out, it pretty much killed the A-380. Every airline other than Emirates abandoned the A-380.
 

Sapper

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
758
Location
Houston, TX
I, too, remember the discussions and commentaries concerning Boeing when the A380 was developed. There were many "experts" who believed that Boeing was compelled to respond, with a competing aircraft; if Boeing didn't, Boeing would be left in the dust.

After discussion and evaluations, Boeing came up with the conclusions mentioned. Boeing instead concluded that airlines were going to do more point-to-point connections on routes that had significant traffic, but didn't warrant an A-380. Or by flying a somewhat smaller aircraft, the airline could provide daily flights instead of partial week schedules, or schedule two flights per day instead of one. This would be driven by providing greater convenience to travelers by avoiding congested major hubs.

So Boeing's response was to develop the 787 Dreamliner, a smaller airplane but with technical innovations that made it cost competitive with the A-380. The 787 project had numerous delays, but when Boeing finally rolled it out, it pretty much killed the A-380. Every airline other than Emirates abandoned the A-380.

Now that you mention it, I remember some of that same commentary. I also remember some "spy photos" of Boeing assembling the "Dreamlifter" from three 747-400 fuselages and rumors that this was going to be Boeing's answer to the A380. I suppose they were kind of right in that they put parts of the Dreamliner inside it.
 

jacknsara

KBV Forum Moderator
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
1,092
Reaction score
350
Location
Mercer Island WA
Resorts Owned
Pahio Kauai Beach Villas, Pahio Shearwater
I believe Boeing did launch the 747 -8F and -8I derivatives after Airbus launched the A380. While these 747 derivatives did not sell as well as the A380, it was my opinion that they did restrict the price Airbus could get and consequently contributed to inability of the A380 program to become profitable.
Prior to both these launches, Boeing and Airbus conducted a multi-year joint study about an aircraft larger than the 747. I believe Boeing's position was that it would never be profitable; I believe Airbus thought Boeing was just trying to keep Airbus out of the large capacity end of the market.
Here we are nearly thirty years later.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,654
Reaction score
8,647
Location
Belly-View, WA
I believe Boeing's position was that it would never be profitable; I believe Airbus thought Boeing was just trying to keep Airbus out of the large capacity end of the market.
Here we are nearly thirty years later.
And, in essence, Boeing ceded to Airbus the "pan-747" market. And while Airbus put resources into the A-380, Boeing put its resources into the 787 and put a huge hole in the Airbus market.

Looking back in time, with the 30-year perspective, I think it's reasonable to wonder whether the Airbus decision to build the A-380 was disconnected from market reality. Was it Airbus execs lost in an edifice complex? Was it Airbus, in some way, kowtowing to their Euro government owners. allowing them to say that Airbus is building the biggest and best bird in the world and eclipsing their North American/US rival? A combination of the two?
 

Sapper

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
758
Location
Houston, TX
I believe Boeing did launch the 747 -8F and -8I derivatives after Airbus launched the A380. While these 747 derivatives did not sell as well as the A380, it was my opinion that they did restrict the price Airbus could get and consequently contributed to inability of the A380 program to become profitable.
Prior to both these launches, Boeing and Airbus conducted a multi-year joint study about an aircraft larger than the 747. I believe Boeing's position was that it would never be profitable; I believe Airbus thought Boeing was just trying to keep Airbus out of the large capacity end of the market.
Here we are nearly thirty years later.

The 747-800 series may have come after the A380, but it was just an evolutional development of a design who's first commercial flight was in 1969! Here it is 2019, fifty years after the first commercial flight and they are still rolling one a month off the assembly line.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,654
Reaction score
8,647
Location
Belly-View, WA
The 747-800 series may have come after the A380, but it was just an evolutional development of a design who's first commercial flight was in 1969! Here it is 2019, fifty years after the first commercial flight and they are still rolling one a month off the assembly line.
And all of them are being bought for air cargo.
 
Top