[ 2013 ] Lagunamar Purchase - Sanity Check

[dioxide45]

Hoping some Starwood pros can help me out. We are looking at possibly buying a Gold+ Lagunamar EOY odd studio week. We have traveled to Cancun for the past two of the past three years and are planning a third trip for 2014. We would most often be traveling the week of Memorial week or the week prior. So Gold + fits the bill.

Given that we own Marriott weeks, trading in to Lagunamar isn't a sure thing. We would most likely treat it as close to a fixed week as possible perhaps only doing something else with it once every 10 years or so. That may mean trying to trade it or perhaps rent it out, even if at a loss. Or give it to friends.

I think I have done my research, but want a sanity check and figured there is no better place to get it than here. I have read about other options for getting in to WLR; II exchange with a cheap Starwood trader, paying cash, trying to trade in with a non Starwood week. Plus there is something to be said about the assurance of booking a week 12 months out.

I have seen a few weeks on Ebay that are either free or almost free

Here are the options.

Keep trying to get in with Marriott
Pros: It is a cheaper option, but not the cheapest. II Exchange fee of $169 plus approximate cost $500 given our current MFs on our units and the fact I can get in with one half of one of our lock offs.
Cons: The unknown with II.

Buy a Cheap Starwood Trader
Pros: Cheaper on a per week basis if I buy a 2BR lock off somewhere and trade both weeks. But that commits us to another full 2BR MF that we really don't want.
Cons: The unknown with II.

Buy Lagunamar
Pros: Probably the cheapest option.
Cons: If for some reason we can't travel to Cancun, the costs of use go up for a rather poor trader.

Here is a cost comparison breakdown using 2012 MF numbers from the sticky. I couldn't find 2013 numbers. Though the actual numbers aren't important when comparing apples to apples. These are counting on buying an EOY in each option.

SDO 2BR-LO
$980.08 MF
$178.00 II Annual Fee. Given that we would have a 2BR, I would carry II membership EY.
$278.00 Exchange Fees when locked off.
$718.04 Total for each week of use.

SDO 1BR-Premium
$677.93 MF
$89.00 II Annual Fee.
$139.00 Exchange Fees.
$905.93 Total for one week of use.

SDO 1BR-Small
$575.21 MF
$89.00 II Annual Fee.
$139.00 Exchange Fees.
$803.21 Total for one week of use.

SBP 1BR
$637.32 MF
$89.00 II Annual Fee.
$139.00 Exchange Fees.
$865.32 Total for one week of use.

WLR 2BR
$1278.71 MF
$89.00 II Annual Fee. Probably would only use II in the odd years to exchange the other half.
$139.00 Exchange Fees.
$753.36 Total for each week of use.

WLR 1BR
$803.37 MF
$0.00 II Annual Fee.
$0.00 Exchange Fees.
$803.37 Total for one week of use.

WLR Studio
$475.34 MF
$0.00 II Annual Fee.
$0.00 Exchange Fees.
$475.34 Total for one week of use.

While I think a 1BR Lagunamar would be nice, I don't think I can justify almost double the maintenance fee for it. We don't cook when we go to Cancun. Usually just light breakfasts and some snacks and we dine out each evening. The studio has a washer and dryer which is the most important to us of the amenities. We wouldn't usually take friends or family and in the rare chance we did, we could then use our Marriott week to get a second unit.

I know that Cancun is a pretty easy trade and there are a lot of great resorts, though we love the location of Lagunamar. We had previously stayed at the Marriott hotel further down the strip and hated the location. WLR is much closer to a lot of shopping and restaurants and doesn't require using the bus as much.

So what do you think? Is it dumb to be considering a studio gold + purchase of Lagunamar?

 

[czar]

My only concern would be the potential of dumping a studio later on. Maybe others with more experience can chime in, but I think it's easier to get rid of a larger unit down the line.

I'm not familiar with Lagunamar but instead of exchanging, can you split it and rent 1/2 out instead of exchanging? It seems like if you remove the II and exchange fee, you'd be closer to the studio unit.

Finally, what's the rental cost for the week? You didn't list that option, but since it's gold plus timeframe I can't imagine it's too much. You may want to see if any of the MF is currently being subsidized by Starwood. If so, it may make more sense to rent.

 

[dioxide45]

My only concern would be the potential of dumping a studio later on. Maybe others with more experience can chime in, but I think it's easier to get rid of a larger unit down the line.

I'm not familiar with Lagunamar but instead of exchanging, can you split it and rent 1/2 out instead of exchanging? It seems like if you remove the II and exchange fee, you'd be closer to the studio unit.

Finally, what's the rental cost for the week? You didn't list that option, but since it's gold plus timeframe I can't imagine it's too much. You may want to see if any of the MF is currently being subsidized by Starwood. If so, it may make more sense to rent.

Thanks. Given that the weeks are being unloaded for free or almost free now, it is a concern about being able to get rid of the week later if/when the need arises.

I have looked at rental rates. Looking at Memorial week 2014 on the Starwood site, rates are about $190 per night including taxes. So about $1330 for a week. Haven't looked at private rentals.

 

[czar]

Looking at redweek, looks like the asking prices run $600-$1200+ depending on timeframe.

 

[siesta]

I would buy a voluntary starwood trader. WLR bulk banks, and has great availability even for holiday weeks. Even if you only bought a 1br small side SDO, although you would get better value from the 2br, you would still be staying for cheaper than a WLR owner if you traded into a 2br, and would be staying for about the same price if you traded into a 1br. Since WLR is voluntary as well, I see no advantage to buying there.

You could even consider a mandatory purchase like svv which will give you staroptions should you want to branch out to the other SVO resorts.

 

[Ken555]

While it's clear you are comfortable in a WLR Studio, I wonder if that will be true years from now as well. Could your travel requirements change over time? Personally, I think the small Starwood studios in Hawaii and Cancun are, well, too small. Even the 1-bed is smaller in the newer resorts, but at least there's room to maneuver. However, since you may be comparing the Starwood studio (ie real studio with amenities) to a Marriott studio (ie hotel room), I can understand why you may appreciate it more than I.

If you think you may ever be interested in the other Starwood resorts you may want to consider the SDO 2BR option more seriously. Though past years cannot be a guarantee of future exchange possibilities, it's been rather consistent for at least ~8 years now that Starwood traders have been successful getting to WKORV, WPORV, WLR (of course), Harborside, and others, especially if your travel schedule is flexible. Keep in mind a SDO 1-bed (SDO 2-bed LO = 2, 1BDs, as you know) will likely pull a WLR 1 (or even 2) bed unit without difficulty. The incremental increase in cost for this may be worthwhile (it would be for me! see above ). Using your numbers, this would cost an additional $243. Then again, the difference between $718 and $803 may not be worth the time needed to watch for availability (or place an exchange request with II) vs making a reservation 12 months in advance nor the possible ability to obtain a 2-bed unit and invite friends/family at no additional cost.

SDO 2BR-LO
$980.08 MF
$178.00 II Annual Fee. Given that we would have a 2BR, I would carry II membership EY.
$278.00 Exchange Fees when locked off.
$718.04 Total for two weeks of use.

I think you meant to write that $718.04 is the cost per week for the SDO 2BR-LO option, not total for two weeks.

I agree with Czar that it will be difficult to give away a WLR studio unit. It will likely be significantly easier to give away SDO.

 

[dioxide45]

I think you meant to write that $718.04 is the cost per week for the SDO 2BR-LO option, not total for two weeks.

I agree with Czar that it will be difficult to give away a WLR studio unit. It will likely be significantly easier to give away SDO.

I did mean for each week. Trying to compare apples to apples. I updated my post.

I do agree that anything is possible and past travel patterns don't always translate in to future use. Though we have no children and don't plan on having any. So unless we take friends with us, we won't need a larger unit. I am enamored with the Westin studios over the paltry Marriott ones (by comparison). Though after a few years it could perhaps get old.

Given exchanging, how easy will it be 10 years down the road when WLR is sold out. Will bulk deposits slow down because of more owner/StarOption trades. We have noticed in Marriott that bulk deposits have dropped as Marriott more quickly unloaded inventory with their new DC program.

 

[VacationForever]

If I were in your shoes, I would buy either at WLR or a mandatory resort. In the recent bulk deposit while there were many weeks, in reality there were not that many choices. My friends want my husband and I to take them to WLR and prefer a Sat check-in. Instead of using an II trade to get a Sun check-in I went ahead and book using Staroptions. Staroptions give you a lot more flexibility. I have also been half seriously looking at WLR resale as we love the resort and that would take the guess work out of exchanging through II. Although I would pick a 1BR or 2BR over a studio.

 

[dioxide45]

If I were in your shoes, I would buy either at WLR or a mandatory resort. In the recent bulk deposit while there were many weeks, in reality there were not that many choices. My friends want my husband and I to take them to WLR and prefer a Sat check-in. Instead of using an II trade to get a Sun check-in I went ahead and book using Staroptions. Staroptions give you a lot more flexibility. I have also been half seriously looking at WLR resale as we love the resort and that would take the guess work out of exchanging through II. Although I would pick a 1BR or 2BR over a studio.

I had noticed that the II bulk was mostly Sun checkins. While that can usually work for us, it would be nice to have other options fairly far in advance.

My guess is that buying a mandatory resort will likely be much more expensive than buying Lagunamar? Given that we would want to return to Lagunamar every other year. An EOY WLR would be ideal. Buying a two bedroom would cost more upfront and be much more expensive MF wise than the studio or even 1BR. Also, with a mandatory resort, is there not an additional SVN fee? That would add to the annual costs of the week.

I also fear how much MFs will go up once the resort sells out. Though that would happen across the board. Adding $1250 MF now isn't too bad, but if those balloon to $1800 down the road, that would be bad. Even with a studio being small, even if MFs doubled, I probably wound't feel as ripped off even though it works out to the same in the end.

With Cancun flooded with inventory, I don't think renting out one half of the lock off is really a viable option if I went the 2BR route? Especially a gold + week?

I will probably keep my eyes out for either a studio or 1BR. Given that we want to go back to Lagunamar, I think the cheapest option is to actually buy there?

 

[LisaRex]

With Cancun flooded with inventory, I don't think renting out one half of the lock off is really a viable option if I went the 2BR route?

Since Cancun is flooded with inventory, I'd rent from an owner. They usually rent for close to the cost of MFs, you can choose any resort (and there are reportedly some fabulous resorts in Cancun) and no commitment required.

 

[jarta]

Staying for a week in a 450 sq. ft. studio which, at some resorts, has no balcony and a limited kitchen is not as comfortable as staying in an 800+ sq. ft. 1-br. that always has a balcony and a full kitchen. Given the minimal resale cost and minimal MF differential (a fraction of the air fare to Cancun for 2), size does matter.

Buy where you want to go in the season you want to be there. I don't think it matters much if you buy voluntary (LMR or SBP or SDO), rather than mandatory (WKV or Bella) - unless you desire an opportunity to obtain "better" weeks at WKORV/N, HRA, WSJ or Riverfront. II is pretty effective for getting trades back into most SVO properties if you can be flexible. However, the greater opportunity to obtain "better" weeks at those resorts using StarOptions at 8 months from arrival is worth the increased cost of buying a top-season, resale mandatory week.

It all depends on how you are going to use whatever you end up buying. More flexibility of use costs more money. Salty

 

[heathpack]

I can't advise you too much on the purchase, other than my instinct without running the numbers would be to recommend a SBP or SDO 1BR. But if you want Lagunamar, buying there is the surest bet and the best guarantee you'll get what you want.

However, we did have a 2BR unit when we were at Lagunamar recently. The studio would have been 100% fine for us. We are also a couple, no kids. The cost to square ft ratio is very reasonable. We typically eat breakfast in, then late lunch/happy hour by the pool, then we're done for the day. We agree that the kitchen and LV are nice features but not really worth extra expenditure for us.

Good luck making your decision!

H

 

[SMHarman]

What you want is currently listed on ebay ending in the next 4 hours.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studio-Prem...51119717492?pt=Timeshares&hash=item232f6fe474
(Perhaps that is why you are asking)

As others have said, the exit strategy is something to consider and this is going to be a poor trader as it is a studio not a 1Br so will not see as much inventory in II etc.

Your plan ticks the box of buying what you need, where you want to go.

Chances are if you want a 1Br you could put a request first into II and trade your studio up to a 1Br for the exchange fee.

At current MF this gets you a week in a resort without an AI surcharge being thrown at you (which is what many other CUN resorts want) for $550 a week. With an II retrade to get a 1Br it is still under $700 a week which is $100 a night.

The ebay week is a Plat+ which could make resale easier and improve trade value in II.

This should still trade adequately with Starwood in II so with a WLR plat+ studio you should see similar studio or small 1br stock in WKORV, or WKV or HRA so on a year you don't want to go you should have a use option somewhere else in the Starwood network.

 

[VacationForever]

One TUGger reported picking up a 2BR WLR for $1 while another for $1000 inclusive of a free year's use. I would have picked up the week if I had come across those deals but my other objective is for a possible retro candidate. Sometimes I see studio or 1BR going for less than $500 on eBAY. Obviously it is a personal preference as to whether you are happy with a studio.

Regarding picking up a mandatory week, SVV goes for between $1000 to $3000. You can also pick up a WKV 2BR gold (worth 81K SO) for about 3K. There is a SVN annual fee of about $125 or $130 (I have lost track). The fee covers a free II account and free booking within the network. I like using SOs as it takes the stress out of anticipating whether a week is going to be available for trade in II with a check-in date that you want. Plus it opens up other options for you to trade into something else other than WLR. I don't own at SVV or WKV but looking at past MFs, they have been rather stable. But you are right, the ongoing MFs + SVN would be quite a bit more for these 2 options as compared with owning WLR.

 

[tomandrobin]

What you want is currently listed on ebay ending in the next 4 hours.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studio-Prem...51119717492?pt=Timeshares&hash=item232f6fe474
(Perhaps that is why you are asking)

Coincidence? Or plain dumb luck?

 

[tomandrobin]

Winning bid:
US $86.00

 

[channimal]

did you get it dioxide45?

 

[SMHarman]

Winning bid:
US $86.00

EY Plat+2B is $37k retail from what I recall from the pitch?
EOY $19k guessing that the split is about 12k/7k for the 1Br/Studio so from
$7,000 to $86 in 24-48 months. Whoosh. Hope those bonus StarPoints were worth it!

 

[margolism]

I would buy a voluntary starwood trader. WLR bulk banks, and has great availability even for holiday weeks. Even if you only bought a 1br small side SDO, although you would get better value from the 2br, you would still be staying for cheaper than a WLR owner if you traded into a 2br, and would be staying for about the same price if you traded into a 1br. Since WLR is voluntary as well, I see no advantage to buying there.

You could even consider a mandatory purchase like svv which will give you staroptions should you want to branch out to the other SVO resorts.

I recently made the decision to become a WLR owner, and I went through an exhaustive analysis.

The ONLY reason to buy at WLR right now is if you need to go during the most prime weeks of the year. (And remember, this is coming from a WLR owner.)

If you are planning on traveling for less prime weeks (i.e., Gold Plus), or even Platinum weeks other than Christmas, New Year's, and President's week, it does not make sense to buy at Lagunamar. From my research, Starwood has not bulk deposited into II for those weeks - they skip those three particular weeks - so you can only get those weeks using StarOptions, which requires getting a property with higher acquisition costs and higher maintenance fees than WLR. Even the best II trader (Starwood or otherwise) would not get those uber-prime weeks, since Starwood doesn't make them available in II.

The minimum I would get at WLR would be a 1BR Platinum Plus unit, since there is no different in maintenance between costs between Gold and Platinum, and a 1BR has better trade value than a studio. Even if you only wanted to travel during Gold Plus season, you could easily trade the Platinum Plus unit for a Gold week. I think the Gold week units will be hard to get rid of.

As an FYI, I recently obtained a 2BR/2BA Platinum Plus lock off at Westin Lagunamar for nothing including closing costs (since 2013 usage was included) - and the ONLY reason I did this was because it would all but guarantee me usage during the most prime school vacation weeks. (Sure enough, I have 2013 Christmas week booked and 2014 President's Week booked.) If I needed ANY other week, I would have gotten a trader. This will be our fourth year at WLR during President's Week.

Having said that, if the current trends continue and more resorts become all inclusive mandatory, I think the Westin Lagunamar, given the combination of facilities, location, and non-AI status will become increasingly more desirable. The AI costs required for many II trades into Cancun destroy the time share economics.

 

[margolism]

while another for $1000 inclusive of a free year's use.

That was me! I would be happy to share my analysis which took into account acquisition costs, annual costs, and exit strategy.

 

[SMHarman]

As an FYI, I recently obtained a 2BR/2BA Platinum Plus lock off at Westin Lagunamar for nothing including closing costs (since 2013 usage was included) - and the ONLY reason I did this was because it would all but guarantee me usage during the most prime school vacation weeks. (Sure enough, I have 2013 Christmas week booked and 2014 President's Week booked.) If I needed ANY other week, I would have gotten a trader. This will be our fourth year at WLR during President's Week.

Czar will be hunting you down for that one!

Having said that, if the current trends continue and more resorts become all inclusive mandatory, I think the Westin Lagunamar, given the combination of facilities, location, and non-AI status will become increasingly more desirable. The AI costs required for many II trades into Cancun destroy the time share economics.

I agree. This makes trades into Cancun quite undesirable when you are shelling out $$$ per person per night for AI you don't want.

 

[margolism]

Czar will be hunting you down for that one!

I agree. This makes trades into Cancun quite undesirable when you are shelling out $$$ per person per night for AI you don't want.

I would say $$$$$$$ - some of those AI rates are INSANE. I don't think WLR will do something like that - haven't seen that at the big name (Marriott / Starwood / Hilton) time share resorts.

 

[margolism]

One other comment on the mandatory properties - I had considered an Orlando mandatory property but felt that:

1. Orlando was probably even more built up with timeshares than Cancun and thus did not seem it would be an improvement in trading power

2. The acquisition costs + MFs fees of a Starwood mandatory resort were not nearly as favorable as the WLR. Would cost me $1500 a year in fees to have enough StarOptions for a 1BR at WLR. (I pay $300 less for a year for a 2BR LO at WLR.)

 

[dioxide45]

I can't advise you too much on the purchase, other than my instinct without running the numbers would be to recommend a SBP or SDO 1BR. But if you want Lagunamar, buying there is the surest bet and the best guarantee you'll get what you want.

However, we did have a 2BR unit when we were at Lagunamar recently. The studio would have been 100% fine for us. We are also a couple, no kids. The cost to square ft ratio is very reasonable. We typically eat breakfast in, then late lunch/happy hour by the pool, then we're done for the day. We agree that the kitchen and LV are nice features but not really worth extra expenditure for us.

Good luck making your decision!

H

I agree about the WLR studio. Amenity wise, it really doesn't have much over the 1BR. Both have one bathroom. Each have a bed, though the 1BR is a king. Both have a washer and dryer. There is also a diswasher and cooktop in the studio. The 1BR has an advantage on square footage an oven and a full size fridge. We likely would never use the oven in Cancun and the fridge was more than sufficient. I am not sure I can justify MFs on a 1BR that are almost 70% higher than the studio for square footage alone.

What you want is currently listed on ebay ending in the next 4 hours.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studio-Prem...51119717492?pt=Timeshares&hash=item232f6fe474
(Perhaps that is why you are asking)

Coincidence? Or plain dumb luck?

I have my Ebay saved searches setup, so I did see this one, though it is Platinum + and wouldn't help us with wanting to book in Gold+ season. We would be stuck again exchanging through II trying to get the week we want.

did you get it dioxide45?

I didn't, though I wasn't trying. At least not yet...

EY Plat+2B is $37k retail from what I recall from the pitch?
EOY $19k guessing that the split is about 12k/7k for the 1Br/Studio so from
$7,000 to $86 in 24-48 months. Whoosh. Hope those bonus StarPoints were worth it!

I found these numbers from 2010. It looks like that week sold for about $9000. It also doesn't look like (at least at the time) they were heavily incenting the purchase of Platinum+ weeks.

I would say $$$$$$$ - some of those AI rates are INSANE. I don't think WLR will do something like that - haven't seen that at the big name (Marriott / Starwood / Hilton) time share resorts.

This is a big concern of ours with Cancun. We don't want to go AI and I would think buying Lagunamar would protect us from that. We could always try to trade in to the Tri Royals, but they are much further down the strip than where we stayed at the Marriott. The Sands location is better, but AI for II exchangers.

 

[dioxide45]

I recently made the decision to become a WLR owner, and I went through an exhaustive analysis.

The ONLY reason to buy at WLR right now is if you need to go during the most prime weeks of the year. (And remember, this is coming from a WLR owner.)

If you are planning on traveling for less prime weeks (i.e., Gold Plus), or even Platinum weeks other than Christmas, New Year's, and President's week, it does not make sense to buy at Lagunamar. From my research, Starwood has not bulk deposited into II for those weeks - they skip those three particular weeks - so you can only get those weeks using StarOptions, which requires getting a property with higher acquisition costs and higher maintenance fees than WLR. Even the best II trader (Starwood or otherwise) would not get those uber-prime weeks, since Starwood doesn't make them available in II.

The minimum I would get at WLR would be a 1BR Platinum Plus unit, since there is no different in maintenance between costs between Gold and Platinum, and a 1BR has better trade value than a studio. Even if you only wanted to travel during Gold Plus season, you could easily trade the Platinum Plus unit for a Gold week. I think the Gold week units will be hard to get rid of.

As an FYI, I recently obtained a 2BR/2BA Platinum Plus lock off at Westin Lagunamar for nothing including closing costs (since 2013 usage was included) - and the ONLY reason I did this was because it would all but guarantee me usage during the most prime school vacation weeks. (Sure enough, I have 2013 Christmas week booked and 2014 President's Week booked.) If I needed ANY other week, I would have gotten a trader. This will be our fourth year at WLR during President's Week.

Having said that, if the current trends continue and more resorts become all inclusive mandatory, I think the Westin Lagunamar, given the combination of facilities, location, and non-AI status will become increasingly more desirable. The AI costs required for many II trades into Cancun destroy the time share economics.

Thanks for the great insight. You definitely did your homework. Something that I am trying to do now. We definitely don't need peak holiday weeks. Two things, we aren't tied to school schedules and we don't like paying high airfare that is tied to those peak weeks. We like to travel in the shoulder/off season but still usually tie it to one of the less peak holidays. Like Labor Day, Memorial Week or Thanksgiving. Still holiday weeks, but holidays when people are more apt to stay home.

As I mentioned in the prior post, we are attracted to the location and non AI of WLR. Since we are not looking for a 2BR unit, it seems that getting a 1BR at WLR or even elsewhere may be a cheaper option. Though if we end up being content with a studio only, WLR seems like the cheapest option.

When you see a fabulous resort, it is hard not to fall in love with it and not want to own there. There is something "magical" or romantic about owning a piece of it even when you can get (functionally) the same thing for all practical purposes for the same price or less.