Deed [on home] Discrepancy

[WinniWoman]

Last year the state we live in- New Hampshire- finally passed a law allowing home deeds to have a Transfer on Death beneficiary. Since we do not have a trust (which was not needed since most everything else we have has a beneficiary, with the exception of our cars and some savings bonds and we only have one heir) we were thrilled we could add this so if it turns out our son inherits the house he could avoid dealing with probate.

So we called our estate attorney to get it done. She also had to consult with the real estate attorney in her office (who happened to be the attorney we used when we bought the house (though in NH an atty was not required, we wanted one anyway). It took awhile and from what I understand it was because of the real estate attorney. (we had started this January 6th and it wasn't finalized until last week). In New Hampshire there is no standard TOD form. Attorney offices have to create their own and evidently we were the first people to request it at this law firm since it is a new law.

(As an aside, the estate atty is actually the daughter of one of the partners in the group that owns this law practice)

My husband and I had an appointment to pick up the recorded deed at the attorney's office last week and before we went I decided to pull out the warranty deed from when we bought the house 5 years ago. When I was looking it over I noticed it said our home was a 3 bedroom home. It is not. It is a 2 bedroom home. Have no idea why it says that and, of course, when we closed on the home so much was going on and when we received it in the mail from the attorney's office I just threw it in our safe. Never looked at it- it's all a lot of legalese and so forth.

So we go to pick up the new TOD deed and lo and behold it also says the house is a 3 bedroom because, of course, it took the information from the original warranty deed. I pointed this out to the attorney and she did not look too happy, but said several times she would talk to the real estate attorney to see if anything should be done- a correction or whatever - and she'd let us know. She said "Well, it's recorded". Then we paid her the $500 for the TOD and left.

Fast forward a week later we never heard from her so I called yesterday and her paralegal said she'd check and get back to me and didn't. So I called again today and the paralegal said the estate attorney hadn't talked to the real estate attorney as of yet.

I am kind of mad at myself because the estate attorney did send me the draft TOD before she did anything official with it. I looked it over and I noticed my son's address was incorrect and called her to fix that, but somehow I missed the sentence with the 3 bedrooms. Not to mention my eyesight is not the greatest.

Anyhow, does anyone know if this is a big deal? Does it matter at all? I looked through all our house purchase documents and nothing mentions the number of bedrooms- just that its a "Wolfeboro" ranch home on lot 30. That is correct. It also said on the purchase and sale documents to see Exhibit 1 - House Plan, but there isn't one. Thankfully my husband actually kept a copy of the builders conceptual drawing of the home with the diagram of the rooms that he used in his sales binder. Mind you every ranch home in this neighborhood is exactly the same. There were no 3 bedroom ranches built (though later a few owners might have finished off their basements on their own to add more bedrooms).

This is hanging on me now because here we wanted to make things easier for our son and I don't want this to be an issue later on for him.

 

[isisdave]

I've never seen a deed that described a structure, or even mentioned one. My experience is in California and now Indiana. Any one I have seen just says "lot xxx of tract yyyy in So-and-so subdivision, according to plat pppp in book bbbb of plats in the office of CCCCC County Recorder" or something like that.

But we're interested -- could you post where the description of the building even appears?

 

[WinniWoman]

I've never seen a deed that described a structure, or even mentioned one. My experience is in California and now Indiana. Any one I have seen just says "lot xxx of tract yyyy in So-and-so subdivision, according to plat pppp in book bbbb of plats in the office of CCCCC County Recorder" or something like that.

But we're interested -- could you post where the description of the building even appears?

The description appears on the Purchase and Sales agreement as the Wolfeboro Ranch on Lot 30 and the address and also on the warranty deed and TOD deed as a 3 bedroom and the lot # and address.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You likely purchased title insurance when you purchased the property. If there is a discrepancy you can contact the Title insurer and the Title company that completed the paperwork to correct it and file the corrected deed with the county.

 

[GrayFal]

You likely purchased title insurance when you purchased the property. If there is a discrepancy you can contact the Title insurer and the Title company that completed the paperwork to correct it and file the corrected deed with the county.

Great advice!

 

[Snazzylass]

I've never seen a deed that described a structure, or even mentioned one. My experience is in California and now Indiana. Any one I have seen just says "lot xxx of tract yyyy in So-and-so subdivision, according to plat pppp in book bbbb of plats in the office of CCCCC County Recorder" or something like that.

But we're interested -- could you post where the description of the building even appears?

Agreed! Never heard of a deed describing the improvements...however, as I recall, the OP has a land-lease property which would be different. Most of us in the US are accustomed to the property description as we own the land under our home. Her subdivision has a 100-yr land lease.

When doing anything with a deed, I always recommend contacting a Title Co. They prepare and file deeds all day long. Let their attorney do it which is usually cheaper and faster.

I just moved back from AZ where the DVM offers a TOD form for vehicles. Wish IN had that...sure would simplify things

 

[WinniWoman]

Agreed! Never heard of a deed describing the improvements...however, as I recall, the OP has a land-lease property which would be different. Most of us in the US are accustomed to the property description as we own the land under our home. Her subdivision has a 100-yr land lease.

When doing anything with a deed, I always recommend contacting a Title Co. They prepare and file deeds all day long. Let their attorney do it which is usually cheaper and faster.

I just moved back from AZ where the DVM offers a TOD form for vehicles. Wish IN had that...sure would simplify things

Thanks- amazing you remembered that about our house with the lease and all.

Actually no improvements. This was a new build 2 bedroom home we bought. But right- it’s a land lease, but the with TOD and the original warranty lease actually there are two deeds each- one for the lease and one for the house.

At this point since the atty said she’d handle it I was preferring for her to do it because, well she’s
an atty. I’m afraid of messing something up if I get involved now and then suddenly she also starts working on it.

I, too, wish we could have TODs on our vehicles. I have to pressure some state reps on this.

 

[WinniWoman]

Gee I thought I had put this in the lounge initially. I don’t know how I could have made that mistake. Sorry about that.

See I’m messing things up lately. Getting older! Ugh!

 

[WinniWoman]

You likely purchased title insurance when you purchased the property. If there is a discrepancy you can contact the Title insurer and the Title company that completed the paperwork to correct it and file the corrected deed with the county.

I am going to pull out my papers again and look.

It’s funny because about last 2 homeowners meetings the board president said if selling a home here to make sure you tell the buyer to use a particular title company because they are very familiar with our community since it’s a bit unique.

I’m pretty sure the title company used in our closing was not that one.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@WinniWoman AFAIK You already paid for Title insurance with your purchase. They are guaranteeing your Title and if they messed up the paperwork they can fix it for free because you already paid your premium for this to be correctly Titled. Unless your neighborhood deeds are quirky but then your existing deed should be correct.

 

[PigsDad]

Anyhow, does anyone know if this is a big deal? Does it matter at all?

One possible case where the number of bedrooms listed matters is how the value of the house is determined for property tax purposes.

Kurt

 

[WinniWoman]

One possible case where the number of bedrooms listed matters is how the value of the house is determined for property tax purposes.

Kurt

I thought of that, but when we moved in the assessor actually came into our house and walked through it.

And we just went on line to our city Gov site and the house shows as a two bedroom.

 

[isisdave]

Agreed! Never heard of a deed describing the improvements...however, as I recall, the OP has a land-lease property which would be different. Most of us in the US are accustomed to the property description as we own the land under our home. Her subdivision has a 100-yr land lease.

When doing anything with a deed, I always recommend contacting a Title Co. They prepare and file deeds all day long. Let their attorney do it which is usually cheaper and faster.

I just moved back from AZ where the DVM offers a TOD form for vehicles. Wish IN had that...sure would simplify things

Indiana has TOD title for vehicles. Ours have it. It's easy if you hold the title, more complicated if you have a loan.

 

[DancingWaters]

Do you have an extra room like a sunroom or den?

 

[gravityrules]

Or something like not having a closet can cause a room to not be counted as a bedroom ... although undercounting bedrooms isn't the situation here.

 

[WinniWoman]

Do you have an extra room like a sunroom or den?

Nope. It’s a very small and simple 4 room cottage. Kitchen, living room and 2 bedrooms.

 

[WinniWoman]

So it's been two weeks and the estate attorney has not addressed this. Last week I called the office and the paralegal said she needed to find out and would call me back. (Mind you this paralegal told me she didn't see the mistake on the TOD when I initially called her (after it was recorded) about the original warranty deed being incorrect)

She never called me back. So I called the next day and she said the estate atty had not asked the real estate atty about it yet. Then silence. Then me explaining why I want it corrected IF it even needs to be corrected. Then she said she'd keep me posted. I feel they are putting me off.

I mean they’re in the same practice in the same building. How long could it take just to ask a question?

Edit: well lo and behold the estate atty did call me back this afternoon. Said the real estate atty is leaving for vacation today, but she did tell her about it. Said to call the real estate atty when she gets back from vacation around 4/16 to talk about it and determine if it’s even necessary to correct it.

 

[susieq]

FINALLY ~ some answers!! (Not quite .... but progress in the right direction!)

 

[Carolinian]

In North Carolina, deeds typically just give the boundaries of the property, but real estate laws vary considerably between states. What is true in one state, may not be true in another. You need advice from a professional in your state.

In North Carolina, we have always been able to arrange something that is close to a TOD. The typical way to do that is to deed the property to the heir and reserve a life estate in the grantors. The problem is that if you ever decide to sell it, the heir has to join in the deed.

 

[isisdave]

In North Carolina, deeds typically just give the boundaries of the property, but real estate laws vary considerably between states. What is true in one state, may not be true in another. You need advice from a professional in your state.

In North Carolina, we have always been able to arrange something that is close to a TOD. The typical way to do that is to deed the property to the heir and reserve a life estate in the grantors. The problem is that if you ever decide to sell it, the heir has to join in the deed.

What about if the heir dies, goes bankrupt, gets divorced, or just turns into a jerk and you want to leave it to someone else? It's his asset, isn't it? Those problems are what TOD transfers are supposed to address.

 

[WinniWoman]

What about if the heir dies, goes bankrupt, gets divorced, or just turns into a jerk and you want to leave it to someone else? It's his asset, isn't it? Those problems are what TOD transfers are supposed to address.

Right. Our son is single, 37 yrs old and we don’t have him listed as an owner on anything except as a beneficiary for those reasons.

 

[geekette]

I have no advice, just offering sympathy for the situation, especially the super frustrating lack of communication. That would drive me batty.

Overall, I think the issue will be corrected in due time and this debacle will be behind you. Best of luck!

 

[jp10558]

Right. Our son is single, 37 yrs old and we don’t have him listed as an owner on anything except as a beneficiary for those reasons.

I assume setting up a trust / specific trusts would accomplish TOD basically if they're a followon trustee?

 

[WinniWoman]

I assume setting up a trust / specific trusts would accomplish TOD basically if they're a followon trustee?

I don’t know what a followon trustee is.

I do know we didn’t need a trust since we have beneficiaries on everything. Except cars ( not allowed in NH) and Treasury accounts ( treasury does not allow secondary beneficiaries for some weird reason)

 

[WinniWoman]

I have no advice, just offering sympathy for the situation, especially the super frustrating lack of communication. That would drive me batty.

Overall, I think the issue will be corrected in due time and this debacle will be behind you. Best of luck!

Thanks. I’m OCD with this stuff, but evidently I wasn’t OCD enough when reviewing the deed before it was recorded.

Not to mention I was the one who kept pushing state reps I know for this new law in NH.

I’m sure some attys maybe don’t like it as they stand to lose probate business. I don’t think most people even know this is a thing here yet.