[ 2010 ] TS owner dies; who owes the yearly fees?

[dwant]

If a paid-off TS is in one persons name (free and clear), that person dies, then is the TS "maintenance fee" nightmare finally over? Or does the TS company go after next of kin (wife is alive, but not on deed) or does it just go back to DRI resorts?? Is this how a person can finally get rid of a timeshare???

 

[LAX Mom]

The estate of the deceased would own the timeshare and be responsible for the MF. If there are assets in the estate they can't be distributed until the debts have been paid.

 

[isisdave]

But an heir can refuse an inheritance, and in this case the HOA doesn't have much choice -- they'll have to try to peddle it themselves.

 

[timeos2]

All lose ends must be settled to allow an estate to be finalized.

But an heir can refuse an inheritance, and in this case the HOA doesn't have much choice -- they'll have to try to peddle it themselves.

Not exactly. The estate of the owner would have to dispose - as in sell or simply give away - the deed to a willing taker. Then the fees due would be transferred to that new owner. If the estate does not then it has to pay the fees until it too is stripped of any funds. It cannot be settled nor can it make any payouts until all assets are properly disposed of. Then, if the estate is now penniless (and that does NOT mean after paying out any bequests but prior to those potential pay outs) then the resort Association would be forced to foreclose. The estate can also ask that the Association take a "deed back in lieu" of future payments but it is under NO obligation to do so. The only obligation is that the fees be paid until a new owner for that week is found BY THE ESTATE.

If there is more than a few years of potential payments due in the estate then those can be tied up until this gets settled. Rather than wait for any settlement the heirs have coming or wasting it paying out on an unwanted timeshare until it is gone a smart Trustee will find a new owner through any method they can find & get the deed transferred and the estate settled ASAP. It doesn't happen by simply saying "he/she died". The estate lives on and holds the obligations now.

 

[e.bram]

1. Pay the current MFs from ESTATE.
2. Distribute all valuable assets to the heirs.
3. The ESTATE then rents(if it can) the TS and uses the proceeds to may upcoming(not yet due MFs).
4. Let the HOA whistle.

 

[timeos2]

still has to settled so what have you/estate gained?

1. Pay the current MFs from ESTATE.
2. Distribute all valuable assets to the heirs.
3. The ESTATE then rents(if it can) the TS and uses the proceeds to may upcoming(not yet due MFs).
4. Let the HOA whistle.

True but now the estate remains open - the courts will not allow settlement with items left unsettled. So it STILL has to deal with getting the timeshare ownership closed out. Why not just handle it upfront (sell, deed back IF the resort is willing, give away, whatever) rather than having a dangling asset prohibit settlement?

 

[jlwquilter]

I think what e.bram is saying is that if you pay any MFs currently due on a PAID OFF timeshare then all debts are satisfied (this may not be true if future debts - ie: next year's MFs - are also taken into consideration when determining if all debts have been settled.)

If all debts are indeed settled with the payment of currently due MFs then assets can be distributed to heirs. The timeshare remains in the estate as it's not sold nor distributed. However when the next round of MFs are due there are no assets left except the timeshare and then the HOA can whistle.

I don't know how it works - I am just explaining how I read e.bram's 'suggestion'.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I believe in many states the executor of an estate can ask the court for permission to abandon a property that is in the estate if no heir is willing to accept the item and the executor has been unable to dispose of it by other means.

 

[timeos2]

I believe in many states the executor of an estate can ask the court for permission to abandon a property that is in the estate if no heir is willing to accept the item and the executor has been unable to dispose of it by other means.

That does sound like something that could happen. Hopefully an informed management at a resort would be aware if that was possible and use it to justify a deed in lieu over the much higher cost of a foreclosure at a later time. But, again, they are under no obligation to take it back so the better method for the estate is to make the strongest case they can to get it sold, taken as a freebie by a new owner or convince the resort management to accept deed in lieu on a paid up ownership as the best choice. Then the estate can be closed out cleanly and everyone is happy. Leaving things for a court to handle is always an unknown and best avoided if possible.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I hope Rick and I live a good long time, because if we don't, our poor kids will be stuck with a bunch of timeshares. I need to take care of that somehow--and soon. I would like to think the kids would want everything we own, but they probably couldn't afford it. As it is, our weeks are rented or used mostly by us. The kids don't vacation. I thought if each of the three just used two weeks per year, we would have barely enough. Not one of them takes two weeks per year.

 

[rod]

In the case of an estate, any existing liability must be paid. Maintenance fees due as of the death date must be paid as a liability.

A person does not have to accept any inheritance if they do not want it. An estate can abandon a property such as a timeshare under most states' probate procedures. Abandonment is designed for assets with future liabilities greater than the value of the asset, such as annual maintenance fees. Ask a good probate lawyer about disclaimers and abandonment.

In effect, all states have a procedure by which the heirs file a disclaimer and the executor files a notice of abandonment in probate court and the estate can be settled. The exact procedures vary from state to state, but they do exist.

Probate law is very much about protecting families and other heirs, not throw good money after bad. Everyone needs to find a competent lawyer to avoid the pitfall of paying that which is not a just debt.

Future maintenance fees are just future liabilities - the estate is only responsible for liabilities that existed at the time of death. If none of the heirs is willing to accept a portion of the inheritance, the executor can try to sell it or give it away -- after a reasonable effort to sell it or give it away with no takers, the estate can then abandon it.

 

[richardm]

This is a very common question that I always refer to an attorney..

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...ys-florida-familiar-timeshare-properties.html

The link above has contact info for a number of attorneys in Florida who are familiar with timeshare issues. You also may want to look or ask for a reference if the property is located in another state..

http://weprobateflorida.com/probate-for-a-timeshare/

This link goes to a short article written by Long H. Duong, P.A. with some good common sense points that should always be considered.

If the property has some resale value- it may be possible to get an attorney to agree to handle probate and take his fee out at closing. Check with the broker or title company handling the sale to see if this is possible in your specific circumstance.

 

[MichaelColey]

I hope Rick and I live a good long time, because if we don't, our poor kids will be stuck with a bunch of timeshares.

If some or all of them have no resale value, I wonder if it might be beneficial to put them into a separate trust so that they don't end up being part of your estate?

 

[rickandcindy23]

If some or all of them have no resale value, I wonder if it might be beneficial to put them into a separate trust so that they don't end up being part of your estate?

Yes, we are considering this as an option. We are only 55 years old. But if something happens to either of us, there is no way we would use all of the weeks. We need to think of what we are doing to our kids.

 

[rachel1998]

I have been giving that a lot of thought lately myself. We own 4 weeks. That is over $2500.00 per year in MF. My daughter and son-in-law have 3 kids to raise and send to college. They don't even take more than one week a year vacation. They will be stuck with this. I think I will try and dispose of them within the next year or so. We aren't that old but frankly I am sick of the MF myself and I don't want to burden them.

 

[Talent312]

In Florida, an estate's liability for debts (like MF's) is set by claims submitted during a set period of time (90 days). Creditors (like HOA's) who have been given notice must submit a claim against the estate of be forever barred and cannot stop any distribution.

If a claim is submitted, if must be paid in order of the priorities set by law. Once claims are paid, the estate is free to commence distribution (or abandon property) with the approval of the court, without reference to any future claims. However, if a property has value, the liens and mortgages attached to the property will have to be paid to preserve the asset... But heirs have no personal obligation to pay anything thenselves.

 

[ctyatty]

In the case of an estate, any existing liability must be paid. Maintenance fees due as of the death date must be paid as a liability.

A person does not have to accept any inheritance if they do not want it. An estate can abandon a property such as a timeshare under most states' probate procedures. Abandonment is designed for assets with future liabilities greater than the value of the asset, such as annual maintenance fees. Ask a good probate lawyer about disclaimers and abandonment.

In effect, all states have a procedure by which the heirs file a disclaimer and the executor files a notice of abandonment in probate court and the estate can be settled. The exact procedures vary from state to state, but they do exist.

Probate law is very much about protecting families and other heirs, not throw good money after bad. Everyone needs to find a competent lawyer to avoid the pitfall of paying that which is not a just debt.

Future maintenance fees are just future liabilities - the estate is only responsible for liabilities that existed at the time of death. If none of the heirs is willing to accept a portion of the inheritance, the executor can try to sell it or give it away -- after a reasonable effort to sell it or give it away with no takers, the estate can then abandon it.

This is the most accurate thoughts on this subject, heirs are not required to feed a dead horse, get a good probate lawyer and don't get talked into paying future MF. Abandon worthless assets, probate is set up to protect families and secondarily take care of creditors. Better yet plan ahead and put your TS in a trust and after death the trust goes defunct and the resort can go pound sand. I handle probate matters and creditors frequently get nothing after priority claims, allowances, etc. Besides most people can set up their affairs to avoid probate altogether. Take a lesson from corporate America, insulate yourself from future liabilities by arranging your affairs in advance.

 

[avad88]

I have been giving that a lot of thought lately myself. We own 4 weeks. That is over $2500.00 per year in MF. My daughter and son-in-law have 3 kids to raise and send to college. They don't even take more than one week a year vacation. They will be stuck with this. I think I will try and dispose of them within the next year or so. We aren't that old but frankly I am sick of the MF myself and I don't want to burden them.

Thanks for the inheritance tips, everyone. We would have the same problem--we don't want to burden our kids.
We own 4 weeks (all in weeks) and although I have considered getting into points, I've reconsidered and I'm holding myself back from all those e-bay deals. We've only owned timeshares for about 10 years, (almost newbies to lots of you) but have seen many changes during those years. We've enjoyed and are still enjoying traveling in timeshares, but RCI has become a huge stress. That combined with increasing maintenance and the difficulty in selling, we're now thinking of disposing of the two we trade and keep the two that we visit each year.
Ava

 

[e.bram]

Happy to see ctyatty is back posting.
What happens in the case where the TS has converted to a "club" such as Festiva, Innseason etc., where no deed is involved or an RTU? What are the obligations. Is the "club" like a partnership where the deceased can no longer be a partner and it's interest is liquidated.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Ask Not For Whom The Sand Pounds. It Pounds For Thee.

Better yet plan ahead and put your TS in a trust and after death the trust goes defunct and the resort can go pound sand.

Are you saying the resort can pound sand because there is no entity responsible for paying fees, etc. ?

Or is it a matter also of having ownership tied up in a defunct trust such that the HOA can't even get the deed cleared after pounding all that sand over the uncollectible fees ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Talent312]

Ultimately, if no one pays the MF's (trust or not; bankruptcy or not; death or not)
... HOA can still foreclose its lien and take back the unit...

But when the time comes that...
-- the trust (as owner) has folded*;
-- the bankrupt has been dicharged; or
-- further estate claims are barred:
The HOA cannot hold the owner liable for the debt and use that as leverage.

*One reason why many systems require an individual to accept liability.

 

[montyh]

Asset of a Probate Estate or Not

I live in a strong Asset Protection state, (Texas), by stutute and case law, but I still never take ownership of ANY asset in my own name. (I set up a proper business and estate plan some time ago)

I never want my family to have to Probate (die without a will or die with a will only and you will learn about Probate, easy to avoid) a TS in some foreign state/jurisdiction. Remember, a will is only effective upon the day you die, so what if you are not dead? You stroke-out and become incapacitated? Alzheimer-dementia takes you away? Who with legal authority manages your assets?

For those that own in your own names(already have done so) you may wish to convey out of your own name to an entity such as a Family Limited Partnership (same as an LP) or LLC or Series LLC, if your State has Series LLCs. Look at the expense of doing so, State filing fees, as opposed to having to probate a TS that has no real re-sale value (worthless). WY being the least expensive state to form a formal entity and maintain ($100), NV, UT, AK, DE also good but you need to look at set up cost and maintenance costs(registered agent fee) to keep your formal entity in good standing. LPs and LLC have "charging order protection" thus a creditor that is successful and gets a judgment cannot put a lien on an asset they merely get a charging order against an income distribution. A TS interest anywhere will not have any income distribution to members of a Series LLC or limited partners of an LP after expenses of management of the TS.

I like to use Land Trusts (converts real property into personal property) along with a series of a Series-LLC, in conjunction with my estate planning trust(s) to hold/own title to any real property. For example, I own multiple deeded timeshares (not points and none in my home state) in a "Series-A" of my Series LLC. My Series LLC is perpetual, as I intended it to live beyond my capacity or death. My Series LLC Manager, or members(family & trust(s)) can decide if they want to keep any or all of the Series-LLC TS interests or not, just like any other business decision. At no time is my person or estate at risk for some predator's claim.

 

[Myrtle]

a new twist on estate question

background: my husband and I purchased a 20 year RTU time share in Mexico and have been very happy since we also got lifetime RCI, Fairfield points, and like our resort and ability to use in U.S. We both signed the agreement, including putting our SS#'s on it etc. and are considered joint owners at the home resort. My problem is with Wyndham and RCI. about a year ago they started insisiting I have my husband come on the phone to "give permission" for me to make reservations. GRRRR. We were told we'd have to pay to get my name on the deed so we ignored the inconvience and put up with the problem.

current issue: we recently found out my husband has an incurable cancer. He is ok now, but will not likely live to end of contract in 2023. If he dies and I "inherit" the time share, can I use it or do I only have the obligation of paying maintence fees? I'm thinking that paying to add me now may be our better option if I can't convince someone at Wyndham that I'd always been an owner and it was their error when they transferred the contract. Am I correct?

 

[Mel]

current issue: we recently found out my husband has an incurable cancer. He is ok now, but will not likely live to end of contract in 2023. If he dies and I "inherit" the time share, can I use it or do I only have the obligation of paying maintence fees? I'm thinking that paying to add me now may be our better option if I can't convince someone at Wyndham that I'd always been an owner and it was their error when they transferred the contract. Am I correct?

If you have a copy of the contract you signed, I would contact Wyndham, and insist on them setting things straight. If they made the mistake, they should be the ones to pay to correct it - if in fact it costs something. If you don't do this now, you certainly will have to once he becomes incapacitated or dies. Even if all parties end up agreeing you are an owner, better to not have to deal with it when they've block all access.

On the other hand, if you think you won't want to use it anymore, when it's only you, you can leave it as it is, and refuse the "inheritance" when the time comes, and thank them for the fine gift of not needing to resell.

 

[d2r4s]

sounds familiar

I hope Rick and I live a good long time, because if we don't, our poor kids will be stuck with a bunch of timeshares. I need to take care of that somehow--and soon. I would like to think the kids would want everything we own, but they probably couldn't afford it. As it is, our weeks are rented or used mostly by us. The kids don't vacation. I thought if each of the three just used two weeks per year, we would have barely enough. Not one of them takes two weeks per year.

I too have this issue, at this time it would not seem possible for my kids to take over our time shares so over the next few years will be looking to unload a few so that they will be able to consider the ones left.