Sound familiar to anyone? Timeshare presentation lawsuit

[theo]

A few thoughts...

...whatever can be done to protect the consumer would be beneficial.

No argument there, although I too firmly believe in the increasingly fading notion in the USA of personal accountability and personal responsibility. "Protection" should always start with the personal exercise of one's own gray matter...

That said, one thing I would like to see is a lot more consistency in the state laws pertaining to contract rescisssion. A few states have rescission periods as short as 3 days (which is much too brief). In Alaska, it's 15 days (which is unnecessarily lengthy, in my opinion). The vast majority are somewhere in between, generally in the range of 5-7 days (10 days in Florida).

If there was federal legislation mandating a consistent, nationwide time frame in each and every state (let's say 10 days, just to be generous), it seems to me that the very existence of such contract cancellation rights would become much more widely known and better understood, by mere virtue of national consistency.

Then again, for people who just buy on impulse, without first researching and understanding the details and nuances of what they are purchasing, or the availability of the same item in the secondary market for far less money, I suppose that the rescission time period may ultimately be irrelevant anyhow.

 

[richardm]

As usual, Boca is right!

To require a thirty day period for a buyer to rescind any purchase is absolutely ludicrous!

I understand that we now live in a society where personal responsibility is very rare, but the concept that individuals are entitled to have the government "fix" their STUPIDITY is getting a little ridiculous at this point!

Seven to ten days is more than enough time for an individual to perform some basic due diligence and decide if their purchase is a good idea. It takes all of about 60 seconds (if you type very slowly) to find enough information about the resale industry to make a smart decision. If a buyer doesn't have access to the internet, it may take another 60 seconds to call someone who does!

If an individual signs a contract to spend $10k or more, and doesn't care enough to spend 60 seconds researching their purchase- then perhaps accepting the consequences for doing so isn't a bad idea...

We need to remember that we are not dealing with children in this discussion.. These are grown men and women! People responsible enough to travel on their own, and decide what they will, or will not, purchase...

I realize that some members of this forum have a tendency to think anything that hurts a developer is a good thing.. But, please try to temper that dislike for the industry with just a little bit of common sense.

 

[Tia]

Mexico's Perfeco has a one year period, I understand, if you can prove the ts was sold on false terms.

 

[Stefa]

30 days too long

I was the one who suggested 30 days in my first post on the subject. Maybe that is too long. I can see why that wouldn't be a good idea.

The fact that I may have been wrong in my initial post doesn't invalidate the arguments that Brian and others have made in favor of extending the rescission period.

Just because 30 days is too long doesn't mean that 7 days is just right. There is a vast middle ground.

 

[ace2000]

I don't know about 30 days myself. A week maybe to short though. It may take till the following weekend for someone to get back from vacation and get settled in back home and provide the time to look into it.

At the least, something should be done about the sales misrepresenations and lies that are running rampant in this sector. Maybe we can all agree on that.

 

[ace2000]

And they say that it can be traded in for a BMW anytime. :hysterical:

LOL - I have to mention... that's a good one!

 

[ace2000]

Ok, I'll go along with the car analogy here.

The current timeshare industry is similar to buying a car from a dealer and finding out after-the-fact that the they failed to disclose that your 2007 Toyota Camry purchase actually had the engine replaced with a 1998 Ford Taurus engine.

The timeshare sales industry is a pack of lies and half-truths. How anyone here can support that is way beyond my comprehension.

One last comment, if you think about it... this is exactly what is going on with timeshare sales today. Does anyone believe that it's the buyer's fault?

Disclosure: Due to info gleaned from TUG, I can honestly say that all my timeshare purchases have been bought resale. Thanks TUG group!

 

[Pit]

Mexico's Perfeco has a one year period, I understand, if you can prove the ts was sold on false terms.

If the TS was sold on false terms, and you can prove it, the rescission period should be indefinate. You may not discover for years, that material misrepresentations were made to induce the sale. A Lemon Law for timeshares, to use the car analogy.

On the other hand, absent such malfeasance on the part of the seller, 7-10 business days is adequate.

 

[dchilds]

A suggestion

The law could be changed to require all sales to be recorded on video from greeting to signing, and the salesman or sales office is required to provide everything as presented, at their cost if necessary, or the buyer can cancel at anytime based on a pro-rated schedule with deeds having an expected life of 50 years.

 

[Fredm]

If the TS was sold on false terms, and you can prove it, the rescission period should be indefinate. You may not discover for years, that material misrepresentations were made to induce the sale. A Lemon Law for timeshares, to use the car analogy.

On the other hand, absent such malfeasance on the part of the seller, 7-10 business days is adequate.

I agree, completely.

A first time buyer cannot be expected to determine if sales representations were substantially accurate before fully exercising its use.

A rescission period of 7-10 days is quite adequate as a "cooling off" period for those who are just uncomfortable with the purchase decision, made under pressure.

 

[TUGBrian]

The law could be changed to require all sales to be recorded on video from greeting to signing, and the salesman or sales office is required to provide everything as presented, at their cost if necessary, or the buyer can cancel at anytime based on a pro-rated schedule with deeds having an expected life of 50 years.

+1 on this comment.

im not "out to get" the developer, but lets be clear and honest here. You could ask perhaps 100 timeshare owners if they truly know exactly what they own...and a HUGE majority may likely say yes...but we all know differently.

Sure you could do a search on the internet in 60 seconds, but whos to say you find TUG vs the developer website?

There are VERY few places online that provide the truth and info regarding your purchase....and also given that...it can lead to disbelief that "this one site keeps telling me everything the salesman told me was a lie"...is actually the TRUTH.

noone wants to believe they were lied to, or sold something that may not exactly fit in the pretty picture frame it was sold in to begin with.

Trusting someone you just entered into a 50+ year agreement with is not something that should be exploited IMO...and certainly should not be exploited to the extent that it currently is.

is there a happy medium somewhere? of course there is.

However I dont believe any of you can truthfully say they are perfectly happy with timeshare consumer protection laws in this country.

 

[brigechols]

It is important to note the buyer experienced remorse the next day and could not get a hold of the Wyndham representative. Then after weeks of calls and letters, Wyndham's legal department told him it was too late to cancel. It is up to each state to determine how much time is necessary to provide a consumer within that state with the opportunity to rescind a timeshare contract. The federal government has no business setting a rescission period tied to a real estate transaction in a particular state.

This case may shed light on "tricks" used by developers to make rescission difficult during the cooling off period (e.g., not responding to phone calls, denying receipt of phone calls or letters, burying rescission details in the sales agreement, omitting rescission instructions from the takeaway package, etc.) and potentially result in a court decision against the developer.

I am in favor of someone accepting personal responsibility for their purchase and decision; however, it should not require a tremendous amount of effort to find and comprehend the rescission terms in the purchase agreement.

 

[richardm]

Amen!

I am in favor of someone accepting personal responsibility for their purchase and decision; however, it should not require a tremendous amount of effort to find and comprehend the rescission terms in the purchase agreement.

Great statement!

 

[447185]

I am in complete agreement with the 7-10 day period IF the developer will allow one to tape the conversation during the sales pitch and/or update. I think honesty and integrity should be adhered to by the seller and buyer. In current conditions we find salesmen telling outright lies throughout his/her presentation. Furthermore, one cannot take the salesmen's written presentation outside the sales room. One could prove fraud and downright lies if one had a taped presentation. One should then be able to rescind the transaction 12-18 months later upon proving deception by the salesman and developer. This could further be strengthened by allowing charges to be filed against the salesman.

Action of this type could clean up an industry of salesmen that are shady at best, and Madoffism at worst. WHAT DOES THE INDUSTRY HAVE TO HIDE?

 

[e.bram]

There is no statute of limitations on fraud, if you can prove it.

 

[BocaBum99]

If the TS was sold on false terms, and you can prove it, the rescission period should be indefinate. You may not discover for years, that material misrepresentations were made to induce the sale. A Lemon Law for timeshares, to use the car analogy.

On the other hand, absent such malfeasance on the part of the seller, 7-10 business days is adequate.

That already exists today. It is illegal to misrepresent real estate as an agent. There are very strict laws about what is misrepresentation. If an agent lies about a product and it can be proven, then the sale can be cancelled.

The developer usually handles these potential issues in quality control after a sale. For example, in Bluegreen, there is a form called the owner confirmation interview that each buyer initials and they record the buyers saying yes to each item after reading it to them. One of the question asks an open ended question about material items the sales guy said that induced the purchase. And, the end always concludes with something like, the agreement you are signing along with these facts are what you are buying. Whatever else the sales guy said doesn't count.

 

[BocaBum99]

I am in complete agreement with the 7-10 day period IF the developer will allow one to tape the conversation during the sales pitch and/or update. I think honesty and integrity should be adhered to by the seller and buyer. In current conditions we find salesmen telling outright lies throughout his/her presentation. Furthermore, one cannot take the salesmen's written presentation outside the sales room. One could prove fraud and downright lies if one had a taped presentation. One should then be able to rescind the transaction 12-18 months later upon proving deception by the salesman and developer. This could further be strengthened by allowing charges to be filed against the salesman.

Action of this type could clean up an industry of salesmen that are shady at best, and Madoffism at worst. WHAT DOES THE INDUSTRY HAVE TO HIDE?

I like the idea of recording the conversation. However, the developers would never go for it.

 

[BocaBum99]

I am in favor of someone accepting personal responsibility for their purchase and decision; however, it should not require a tremendous amount of effort to find and comprehend the rescission terms in the purchase agreement.

agreed. Some states, like Florida, make it mandatory that the rescission rights of 10-days are irrevocable and must be visible to the consumer. It's usually on the first or second page in BOLD and Capitalized.

 

[BocaBum99]

No argument there, although I too firmly believe in the increasingly fading notion in the USA of personal accountability and personal responsibility. "Protection" should always start with the personal exercise of one's own gray matter...

That said, one thing I would like to see is a lot more consistency in the state laws pertaining to contract rescisssion. A few states have rescission periods as short as 3 days (which is much too brief). In Alaska, it's 15 days (which is unnecessarily lengthy, in my opinion). The vast majority are somewhere in between, generally in the range of 5-7 days (10 days in Florida).

If there was federal legislation mandating a consistent, nationwide time frame in each and every state (let's say 10 days, just to be generous), it seems to me that the very existence of such contract cancellation rights would become much more widely known and better understood, by mere virtue of national consistency.

Then again, for people who just buy on impulse, without first researching and understanding the details and nuances of what they are purchasing, or the availability of the same item in the secondary market for far less money, I suppose that the rescission time period may ultimately be irrelevant anyhow.

Property rights are State rights.

 

[BocaBum99]

The timeshare sales industry is a pack of lies and half-truths. How anyone here can support that is way beyond my comprehension.

I agree with Brian on this one... whatever can be done to protect the consumer would be beneficial.

I don't think anyone is advocating lies and half-truths. I think we are discussing what is a reasonable rescission period.

All lies and misrepresentations should be illegal and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

[viejoverde]

The bottom line is that 3/5 days is way toooo short of a time to rescind, as another poster said, most presentations are done the first couple of days of the week vacation, that means the buyer in that case has 0 days to rescind.
It should be at least 15 days to give the buyer at least a week after he gets home to think about it AND COME TO HIS SENSES.

 

[BocaBum99]

If the product and price can't hold up to an extended review then it is bogus to begin with. It's that truth that is the real reason no developer wants a longer rescind period. Sell a viable product at a reasonable price with a robust resale market to support it (ie the car market as an example) and no unwieldy rescind period is required. Build a house of cards on misrepresentations and any chance to get out will be utilized by your customers and deservedly so.

7-10 days IS an extended review period. How many consumer products in the US have rescission periods greater than 10-days? Please name 5. There are hundreds or thousands of products more complicated than a timeshare.

The biggest issue with irrevocable rescission periods is that the seller does NOT know when they have a deal and they must hold the inventory while the consumer decides whether or not they have buyer's remorse. Business just doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, as a smart consumer, I will personally look for the best deal. Lock in deals and keep rescinding until I get the cheapest around. That's clearly wrong as well.

At some point, the accountability must fall on the consumer. If a buyer can't figure out in 7 days or less that they are over their head, then they deserve every contract and subsequent consequences they sign as free citizens.

 

[BocaBum99]

The bottom line is that 3/5 days is way toooo short of a time to rescind, as another poster said, most presentations are done the first couple of days of the week vacation, that means the buyer in that case has 0 days to rescind.
It should be at least 15 days to give the buyer at least a week after he gets home to think about it AND COME TO HIS SENSES.

I agree that 3-5 days is too short. However, if you make the second or third biggest purchase in your life, you better cancel the rest of your vacation to make sure it was the right thing to do. If you aren't willing to cancel your vacation while you do the research, then 1) you got what you deserved and 2) you made the choice to waive your due diligence period and vacation instead.

When I made my first developer purchase, I chose to waive my vacation. I found Redweek and TUG and I decided I could get a better deal, so I cancelled.

 

[timeos2]

Rally the troops we have a possible deal

I like the idea of recording the conversation. However, the developers would never go for it.

So let the rule be: Recorded presentation, copies to both sides, gets 10 days to rescind. Non-recorded gets 60 (I might go 30 but I think it needs to be LONG to force them to strongly consider recording as the better option) days to rescind on demand.

With no recording let them sweat out what they said to make the sale meaning it gets dumped as new owners learn the real truths OR record it, when I'll bet things are no longer presented with as many misrepresentations, truth stretches or just the flat out Wastegate lies - and they can have a firm deal in 10 days. Might turn the legitimate ones toward allowing a recording and make the Wastegate type more vulnerable to rescission long after the current rules don't allow it. Heck it may even change the game! New battle cry. Record or rescind!

 

[BocaBum99]

One last comment, if you think about it... this is exactly what is going on with timeshare sales today. Does anyone believe that it's the buyer's fault?

Disclosure: Due to info gleaned from TUG, I can honestly say that all my timeshare purchases have been bought resale. Thanks TUG group!

What is the buyer's fault is purchasing a product they don't fully understand and failing to exercise their due diligence rights within the statutory rescission period.