Is Starwood management failing owners ?

[gmarine]

I've recently received almost all of the maintenance fee bills for my nine timeshare weeks. Several have under 5% increases and none have more than a 10% increase. That is except for the more than 20% increase at Sheraton Broadway Plantation. From other threads on TUG it seems at least one other Starwood managed timeshare has an over 20% increase in maintenance fees.

I realize that there are delinquencies at the resorts in question but are delinquencies limited to Starwood resorts ? None of my other resorts, Marriott included are raising fees so drastically. So that brings the question.

With these increases and the recent Starwood/II system changes that are very unfriendly to owners is Starwood management failing owners ?

I believe they are failing miserably.

 

[K2Quick]

They are certainly operating in a different reality than Starwood's competitors. I just can't reconcile in my mind why Starwood's fee increases would be so much higher than Marriott's in the same markets without something untoward going on. A while back there was a poll about Starwood's management relative to the rest of the timeshare industry. I think I answered that they were "no better and no worse" than the norm. I would revise my answer now.

 

[Weez]

With these increases and the recent Starwood/II system changes that are very unfriendly to owners is Starwood management failing owners ?

I believe they are failing miserably.

I think most SVO owners would agree with you. Im not one who is big into writing letters or complaining when I feel it will fall on deaf ears but this one has just struck a nerve with me.

We should have fully elected boards, BOD and HOA that are put in place by starwood completely defeat the purpose. We truly have no say in who starwood hires, how they maintain or how much they charge for things. We have no one representing us, only people representing starwood.

I know delinquencies happen but if we are being asked to subsidize those fees should we be offered their time? Why should we pay the delinquent fees, allow starwood to rent those units and reap all the benefits?

Im curious, does anyone know how starwood chooses its vendors? is it competitively bid? The landscaping services, the houskeeping services etc etc.

 

[LisaRex]

We should have fully elected boards, BOD and HOA that are put in place by starwood completely defeat the purpose. We truly have no say in who starwood hires, how they maintain or how much they charge for things. We have no one representing us, only people representing starwood.

Starwood's blatant control of their HOA boards is backfiring on them because there is absolutely no question who to blame for these horrific increases in MFs.

What exacerbates the problem for WKORV is that the resort is so new that there may still be lots of people left who financed their purchase. I don't know what kind of terms they were offering, but I'm suspecting something like a 5-7 year loan with a medium interest rate. Now, if you're an owner who is 3 years into a 7 year loan on a property whose resale value has plummeted, and whose MFs have skyrocketed....wouldn't you choose to simply walk away vs. continuing to pay for something that is worth far less on the fair market than you owe?

So I fear the problem is going to get worse before it gets better. I do wonder why Starwood hasn't cut the developer prices significantly in order to mitigate the damage being done to the Owners. It makes me really wonder what their long-term strategy is.

Obviously having the current board hand-pick their successors goes against the very spirit of an HOA. There is absolutely no checks-and-balances. And I ultimately think that this point will be their Achilles Heel. You can't sell something and then expect to control it. In real estate, the courts have been very clear that you cannot put conditions on property (e.g. it must remain a green space) into perpetuity because it limits the current owner's ability to enjoy his property. If it is he who pays to maintain it, then he should be able to control it. And that is the point that I think we can successfully sue Starwood, and win.

 

[DanCali]

If it is he who pays to maintain it, then he should be able to control it. And that is the point that I think we can successfully sue Starwood, and win.

That's probably easier said than done...

The nice thing about this point is that maybe this can be a lawsuit against SVO (headquarters) vs. 20 separate lawsuits and against the various HOAs. It reduces the logistics tremendously...

 

[Weez]

Does anyone know an attorney that handles class action suits?

I guess the better question would be are there specific requirements that need to be met in order to bring a class action suit?

 

[Westin5Star]

Does anyone know an attorney that handles class action suits?

I guess the better question would be are there specific requirements that need to be met in order to bring a class action suit?

Another question; does anyone know any Hyatt execs that would like to purchase SVO?.. please, please, please!!!

 

[jerseygirl]

Another question; does anyone know any Hyatt execs that would like to purchase SVO?.. please, please, please!!!

That would be wonderful, but I think they'd only take a few of the resorts.

 

[stevens397]

How depressing that the organization that I thought was the classiest only excels at screwing the owners

 

[Westin5Star]

That would be wonderful, but I think they'd only take a few of the resorts.

Hopefully they would at least take WKORV, WPORV, HRA, WLR, and WKV. Hyatt is probably very smart and waiting for the right time to buy us; I can't wait.

 

[DeniseM]

How about Westin Desert Willow, and Westin River Front Mountain Villas?

 

[jerseygirl]

How about Westin Desert Willow, and Westin River Front Mountain Villas?

I'd say yes to Westin Desert Willow, but Hyatt already has GORGEOUS ski resorts in Colorado.

 

[yumdrey]

Why only Hyatt? Hilton also has very limited locations, most of their resorts are in Orlando, las vegas and Hawaii. They need something in Maui, Kauai and other US areas. I would be happy to hear Hilton purchase starwood. Can it happen? My Hilton resort has only around $20 increase for next year's MF. Such a shame on starwood.

 

[Stefa]

So what happens if Hyatt or Hilton were to take over some of the Westin resorts? Obviously the HOA would be replaced (which would be a good start), but what other changes would we see besides the renaming? Would they renegotiate all the contracts such as for maintenance and housekeeping?

How long would the changeover take? Would there be SAs or would fees maybe stabilize for awhile?

What happens to the Sheratons and other less-desirable resorts?

 

[grgs]

Hilton also has very limited locations, most of their resorts are in Orlando, las vegas and Hawaii. They need something in Maui, Kauai and other US areas. I would be happy to hear Hilton purchase starwood. Can it happen? My Hilton resort has only around $20 increase for next year's MF. Such a shame on starwood.

The limited locations is the main negative as far as I'm concerned. The main reason we chose Starwood over Hilton (which does seem to have a pretty good points system) was Hilton's concentration in Orlando & Vegas, neither of which is a strong draw. Starwood has a greater variety of locations. However, at this point, I'd be willing to consider it.

Glorian

 

[DanCali]

So what happens if Hyatt or Hilton were to take over some of the Westin resorts? Obviously the HOA would be replaced (which would be a good start), but what other changes would we see besides the renaming? Would they renegotiate all the contracts such as for maintenance and housekeeping?

How long would the changeover take? Would there be SAs or would fees maybe stabilize for awhile?

What happens to the Sheratons and other less-desirable resorts?

There is no chageover yet but I wish one of these companies approached owners with such an initiative. I mean we own the resorts and can vote on a change of management, no? They just need to want to manage them and be able to commit to reasonable MFs.

I don't think this is even possible but I think that at some resorts owners would be better off selling these as condos and splitting the proceeds. If a WKORV unit would sell for 1.5M, that's 30,000 per owner. I'd take that and buy a Marriott in a heartbeat! For resorts like SDO and SBP any positive selling price would be better at this point than being stuck with an asset that won't sell...

 

[jerseygirl]

I own at both Hilton and Hyatt .... my take:

• Hyatt has the nicer resorts and although they're in limited locations, they're pretty good locations for the most part (and they have an excellent arrangement with II should an owner want to travel outside the system).
• Hilton has the best management from a "customer-friendly" point-of-view. They allow resale buyers into the points program AND provide them with the ability to trade for hotel points. They raised the number of hotel points awarded to timeshare conversions to offset the points devaluation (unheard of with the other majors). Only negatives are the limited locations and RCI.

Come to think of it, a buyout from Hilton would get my vote too -- especially if they'd keep some sort of relationship with II (my affiliate resort can trade through II! And, they'd probably take all the resorts.

I'm an "anyone but the Yankees" fan ... guess I'm becoming an "anyone but Starwood" fan too.

 

[DanCali]

So if one wanted to propose to the Board an agenda item to vote on like "The Board will commence looking for a new management company to replace Starwood" (including obtaining owner votes) how do we go about doing that?

I imagine that anyone with even remote ties to Starwood on the Board will need to recuse themselves from voting...

 

[l2trade]

I agree with everyone on this thread so far. It is time to push for changes. Just like Gmarine said, I believe Starwood is failing miserably.

 

[LisaRex]

Count me in as a former very happy member of HiltonHHonors. You cannot beat DoubleTrees and/or Embassy Suites when traveling with children. If Hilton had had a presence in Maui, I'd probably be a Hilton TS owner today. From calling a locksmith when we locked our keys in the car at the ES Columbia, SC to upgrading both me and the other couple traveling with us to OF suites at the Hilton Hawaaian Village (as a silver!), to sending me home with a tin of cookies at the local Doubletree Suites, I have only had positive experiences with Hilton hotels.

Personally, I'd be giddy if Hilton bought out WKORV-N.

 

[tombo]

With the Starwood sales in the tank, with owners defaulting at high rates, with most of the resort's expenses out of control due to poor mgt and lack of income from MF's I don't see Starwood as a bargain to buy. I can understand why Starwood might want to (or have to) sell, but I sure can't imagine why Hyatt or Hilton would want to buy it.

 

[Transit]

"Is Starwood management failing owners ?" They have ,I will most likely dump my Non-SVN after the vacations I already have booked.I'll keep my SVN unit with the hopes that Starwood can recover somewhat but my better judgement is telling me to get out completely while there is something to salvage.

 

[DanCali]

With the Starwood sales in the tank, with owners defaulting at high rates, with most of the resort's expenses out of control due to poor mgt and lack of income from MF's I don't see Starwood as a bargain to buy. I can understand why Starwood might want to (or have to) sell, but I sure can't imagine why Hyatt or Hilton would want to buy it.

Maybe I am missing something,but why is everyone referring to Hilton or Hyatt "buying out" SVO... Is there anything to buy from them? WE are the owners of the resorts.... ("Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash etc... ").

If someone wanted to manage these resorts all they need to do is come out with a proposal that would be fair to owners (e.g. full transparency, reasonable MFs, and a commitment that they will increase MFs only when absolutely necessary in a responsible manner - maybe also propose a cap like no more than CPI + 2%) as well as to the new management company in the form of a reasonable management fee that can get them a decent profit. I am pretty sure that many owners at resorts (especially with few developer owned units) would vote for this if MFs were back to 2005 levels, even at the loss of SVN trades...

So what am I missing? Why do they even need to talk to Starwood...?

 

[Stefa]

Dan

I don't really understand what is involved in changing management (which is why I asked some questions above) but, perhaps, people are thinking it would be easier to get Starwood to give up control voluntarily than it would be for owners to organize and have them removed. In that case, another management company would probably have to buy them out.

 

[DanCali]

Dan

I don't really understand what is involved in changing management (which is why I asked some questions above) but, perhaps, people are thinking it would be easier to get Starwood to give up control voluntarily than it would be for owners to organize and have them removed. In that case, another management company would probably have to buy them out.

They are making money at our expense via excessive management fees, housekeeping fees, rental fees etc... In fact, you can argue that the more delinquencies, the better off Starwood is because the pocket more rental commissions and hosekeeping fees which otherwise they wouldn't get. This is a cash cow for them (at least on the management side) - I can't see them giving it up voluntarily.

The sales effort is a different story. TUG negatie sentiment here seems to affect quite a few buyers in backing away from a purchase decision... that's probably hurting Starwood, but since they are not developing new resorts I don'tknow how much they care.