My Dinner With Bellehavens.. Any Questions?

[GOLFNBEACH]

Frugal is my attitude towards everything. Not cheap, but the maximum usage of the dollars Uncle Sam lets me keep.

Also, I am an investor/owner versus a renter.

I know that owning a car makes sense if you keep it until it falls apart, probably the same with an RV or Jet or anything that depreciates fast. Buying something that has depreciated a lot, like a used car, makes a lot of sense too.

But that's just my outlook on money.

Would fractional ownership be an option? You would own the deed, the property would benefit from appreciation, and you could trade through the Registry Collection, etc.

Anyone have experience with trading through the Registry Collection? If it's flexibly you could have many of the advantages of a DC with the benefits/security of ownership.

 

[travelguy]

Frugal AND Luxurious

Frugal is my attitude towards everything. Not cheap, but the maximum usage of the dollars Uncle Sam lets me keep.

Also, I am an investor/owner versus a renter.

I know that owning a car makes sense if you keep it until it falls apart, probably the same with an RV or Jet or anything that depreciates fast. Buying something that has depreciated a lot, like a used car, makes a lot of sense too.

But that's just my outlook on money.

My version of Frugal is also with luxury. I typically buy a top-end Benz with 6-9 months use (less than 10K miles) for cash and keep it until a year after the model change. This allows me a new, top model car without a large chunk of the depreciation and no financing costs. My wife "requires" BMWs of equal value but that's a whole other story.

Some of us are frugal BUT still want top-tier. We just know how to purchase correctly. Wealth is achieved in direct proportion of income to expense. Spending less equals less income need equals more vacation time!

 

[PerryM]

My version of Frugal is also with luxury. I typically buy a top-end Benz with 6-9 months use (less than 10K miles) for cash and keep it until a year after the model change. This allows me a new, top model car without a large chunk of the depreciation and no financing costs. My wife "requires" BMWs of equal value but that's a whole other story.

Some of us are frugal BUT still want top-tier. We just know how to purchase correctly. Wealth is achieved in direct proportion of income to expense. Spending less equals less income need equals more vacation time!

This is why timeshares still offer me the maximum vacation for the minimum money and risk. We do own a fractional unit and utilize it all the time.

Maybe that will change in the future but I really enjoy staying at what would be 3 Diamond AAA resorts, like a Marriott, for Motel 6 prices. It really puts a huge smile on me every vacation.

I'd like to move to 4 Diamonds and pay 1 Diamond rates - that's why I still have interest in DCs since they allow for this. It's the security of my deposit that has me holding back which gets back to the DC industry which I believe is built on a house of cards.

 

[vivalour]

It's the security of my deposit that has me holding back which gets back to the DC industry which I believe is built on a house of cards.

We're talking about this point before taking the plunge into DCs and wondering about how much leveraging these clubs do when adding properties, esp. PE & UR which we find very appealing. My husband or I may go to a presentation to get a feel for the folks who run the show at PE. UR has something on their web site about the security aspect. Kind of vague though...

 

[PerryM]

We're talking about this point before taking the plunge into DCs and wondering about how much leveraging these clubs do when adding properties, esp. PE & UR which we find very appealing. My husband or I may go to a presentation to get a feel for the folks who run the show at PE. UR has something on their web site about the security aspect. Kind of vague though...

When I cost out DC's compared to the great vacations we get with timeshares I must account for the loss of ALL the security deposit AND 5 years of forced MFs.

By doing this I account for the simple fact that I am giving the DC an unsecured loan to folks I've not met and have so little regard for me that they won't make an effort to protect my money. That's the status quo of the DC market now.

Additionally, if the DC market goes thru massive upheavals either due to bad news/events or just one set of greedy folks devouring another set of greed folks then I might not be allowed out of the DC for many years and be forced to pay the MFs.

The DC industry should get together and buy an insurance policy to cover 200 or so refundable deposits and this would provide some protection. The other item would be that I can only be made to pay for 6 months of MFs after I want out and then the insurance kicks in to refund my money.

These seem simple solutions that would get me really excited with DCs.

However, the DC market seems to be chugging along just fine without these so I will have to wait for a name-brand that would want to protect its reputation and refund my "investment".

But that's just why I'm not a DC member now, someday I probably will be.

 

[GOLFNBEACH]

However, the DC market seems to be chugging along just fine without these so I will have to wait for a name-brand that would want to protect its reputation and refund my "investment".
.

That is the key point. If the DC market is chugging along just fine, they have no incentive at this time to implement costly and time consuming changes. This could easily change in the future.

 

[PerryM]

That is the key point. If the DC market is chugging along just fine, they have no incentive at this time to implement costly and time consuming changes. This could easily change in the future.

Status quo for a business is a dilemma - do you go out of your way to change it?

I remember back in the early 1970s where every GM car was stamped out of the same frame - just the interior fabric material and the hood ornament separated a Oldsmobile from a Cadillac. Then I took a test drive in a small car called a Toyota and have never bought anything else since.

For a 10 year old industry, status quo can be a killer.

 

[vivalour]

I took a test drive in a small car called a Toyota and have never bought anything else since.
For a 10 year old industry, status quo can be a killer.

True, but hot competition usually stimulates changes for the better. I'm optimistic that some sorts of consumer protection will come sooner than later, although terms maybe still not as "secure" as we might like. On the subject of cars, you may want to try a Honda one day if you get tired of your Toyota. We get top of the line Hondas and they last forever -- even in the brutal Canadian winters.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I prefer my Acura RL and my wife loved her Acura MDX...great cars!

 

[GOLFNBEACH]

Status quo for a business is a dilemma - do you go out of your way to change it?

I remember back in the early 1970s where every GM car was stamped out of the same frame - just the interior fabric material and the hood ornament separated a Oldsmobile from a Cadillac. Then I took a test drive in a small car called a Toyota and have never bought anything else since.

For a 10 year old industry, status quo can be a killer.

Come on...it's all about competition. Automobile, telecommunications, healthcare...very little changes to benefit the consumer until there is legitimate competition. The competion will heat up in the DC industry and there will be changes...we just don't know when.

I'll take a Honda over a Toyota.

 

[PerryM]

80/20...

Come on...it's all about competition. Automobile, telecommunications, healthcare...very little changes to benefit the consumer until there is legitimate competition. The competion will heat up in the DC industry and there will be changes...we just don't know when.

I'll take a Honda over a Toyota.

Competition is always the answer; I agree.

I'm perfectly happy with the timeshares we now use and will patiently wait for a situation that makes me want to act.

I marvel at how the old 80/20 rule works - I see it working all the time around me.

The Marriott's and other timeshares we vacation at are 80% of the way towards our ultimate goal. That remaining 20% will cost me probably 80% more in cash than what we have paid to get into the timeshares we now love.

So the DC industry is going to have to offer me something spectacular for me to make the move - I just don't see it now.

Spending big bucks is just too easy - anyone can do it if they have the money. My goal is to do it for 20% of what 80% pay for the same thing.

I still think WorldMark is the model to implement versus the current DC model.

WM could easily buy condos/homes and deposit them into the master trust which are 100% debt free. Then the developer sells usage, via Points, and folks buy just what they need. A Points Calendar tells everyone what a unit costs per day. Holidays cost a lot more, off season a lot less.

The members own part of the master trust and those properties can be sold later and the money returned to the members or reinvested in new units.

I can't think of a better way to run a DC than with the WM model. No membership fees - just buy what you want. Sell them resale to anyone you want.

It's just so simple.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

personally, i want unlimited use of (mainly detached single family) homes with the same (average) value for a flat deposit and annual fee.

2 of the clubs im watching are like that.
the 3rd might not allow unlimited use, but doesnt charge an annual fee.
and the 4th charges $300/nt after plan nights are used.

youre talking about something like the onekeyworld (~$2K/nt) model. like a fractional card. onekey sure has some great savings. IIRC you said you would be more interested if they had lower value/cost properties. personally, id actually probably be more interested (longterm) in higher value/cost properties.

another thing that comes to mind, from what youre talking about is a club theyve got in australia with homes, cars, yachts, etc - more like a car club with other stuff. (point based) ill try and find it again and link it. again, not something im really interested in personally, because usage of the high value stuff is so limited. although i really dont remember what i worked out for the daily costs etc.. here it is >
http://www.limitededition.com.au/

 

[NeilGoBlue]

throwing out the baby with the bath water..

Just a reminder...

Both Bellehaven's and Crescendo offer asset protection.