Anyone ever try to back out of Marriott's exercise of ROFR?

[MOXJO7282]

On one occasion when Marriott exercised ROFR on one of my MOC units I was slow to complete the paperwork because I really didn't want them to buy it. As a result of my delay Marriott threatened to cancel the deal on me. On that deal I asked the buyer if he wanted me to see if we could overcome Marriott's ROFR by not completing their paperwork and increase their offer and they chose not to so I completed the ROFR to let Marriott buy it without looking into what happens if you don't sign Marriott's deal and increase purchase price try to overcome ROFR.

I ask again because I now have a buyer for my MOC weeks 13&14 and he really wants these weeks. so much so that is already agreed to pay $5k above my ask and right at previous ROFR.net numbers which I shared with him, but he's still concerned about failing. I told him since he bumped up price I would work with him if we could do something if Marriott exercised ROFR, so trying to understand all the possible outcomes.

I told him when I desperately wanted fixed week 17 to match my 15,16,18 I overpaid at $39k to achieve that. He didn't mention when I asked because I think he's concerned I might take advantage but I believe he owns weeks 11&12 or maybe 15&16 because I told him my story 4 week connection and he said that is what he is seeking but not exactly sure what he owns. He also said that Marriot exercised ROFR on a string of 7 fixed weeks that included holidays he agreed to purchase so he's desperate to avoid that here.

So anyone have experience refusing Marriott's ROFR?

 

[klpca]

Can you write a contract that has an escalation clause in it like you can do on a home sale where the first offer (buyer) will match and increase their offer up to a certain dollar amount if there are other offers? I have no idea if that would work though. Are you already under contract?

 

[MOXJO7282]

Someone confirmed you can and they have so I got my answer.

 

[5finny]

Someone confirmed you can and they have so I got my answer.

Pleasantly surprised
Seems to violate the "It's too easy " rule

 

[Dean]

Pleasantly surprised
Seems to violate the "It's too easy " rule

I've seen several example of people not proceeding with the "sale" with MVC and even more with DVC. Legally Think they could likely force the sale but I can't imagine they'd go to the trouble or expense to do so. I don't recall an exception that I've heard about. I've only had one sale where ROFR came into direct play, that was with DVC. They tried to add additional conditions. I refused and they decided to proceed and close anyway. I was not going to proceed with the condition they added, that I didn't disclose the sale price. Truth is I already had by the time it got to that point.

 

[lorenmd]

so if i am the buyer of points from our close friends who really just want to give them to us, we could write the contract at 1 cent per point with an escalation clause? they don't want money from us and they don't want marriott to get their points. we have agreed to take their 2000 points off their hands and if they want to go somewhere in the future we would gift them their stay. just need to know this escalation clause would actually work. thanks for any advise

 

[Hindsite]

so if i am the buyer of points from our close friends who really just want to give them to us, we could write the contract at 1 cent per point with an escalation clause? they don't want money from us and they don't want marriott to get their points. we have agreed to take their 2000 points off their hands and if they want to go somewhere in the future we would gift them their stay. just need to know this escalation clause would actually work. thanks for any advise

If they are close friends just get your names added to the account and work like that for a few years and then have their names taken off.

 

[TolmiePeak]

so if i am the buyer of points from our close friends who really just want to give them to us, we could write the contract at 1 cent per point with an escalation clause? they don't want money from us and they don't want marriott to get their points. we have agreed to take their 2000 points off their hands and if they want to go somewhere in the future we would gift them their stay. just need to know this escalation clause would actually work. thanks for any advise

Why not just have them pay you $5 a point and later return their money?

 

[GTLINZ]

Why not just have them pay you $5 a point and later return their money?

That is the definition of trust ....

 

[Dean]

That is the definition of trust ....

And also technically illegal in most if not all states.

 

[PeakSeason]

Well here’s a hypothetical: I have a terrible memory, so if I’m selling my points for $5/point, what is the penalty if I forget to collect payment after the points account is transferred to my friend? And what is to stop someone from feigning forgetfulness?

I’ve bought and sold a few weeks, and if I’m not using escrow, it’s always between the other person and I to figure out payment, with no verification after the fact by anyone, including Marriott.

 

[jellen613]

Why not just have them pay you $5 a point and later return their money?

What about the $3 per point Marriott enrollment fee since these are resale points? Even if they are sold for pennies, the buyer still has to pay the fee to be able to use them, correct?

 

[TolmiePeak]

And also technically illegal in most if not all states.

Not if you sell them your child’s priceless artwork for $5000


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[vacationtime1]

Not if you sell them your child’s priceless artwork for $5000


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That would create a capital gains tax. But I agree with the sentiment.

 

[Hindsite]

Well here’s a hypothetical: I have a terrible memory, so if I’m selling my points for $5/point, what is the penalty if I forget to collect payment after the points account is transferred to my friend? And what is to stop someone from feigning forgetfulness?

Nothing, as long as you don't get "caught". Its an area where MVC ae unlikely to be that bothered, they're going to collect the various fees including the $3/club point (min $3k). They'd probably just refuse to change the ownership records if they felt there was a something off in the transaction.

 

[TolmiePeak]

That would create a capital gains tax. But I agree with the sentiment.

Wouldn’t that depend on how much it took to generate the painting?


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[lorenmd]

thank you all for your input. we will use LT transfer and write up the sale at $1/point and an escalation clause. we will have to pay the $6k re education fee the transfer fee, the closing. so it will still cost us about 7k without paying them anything. there is extreme trust so we can work out the financials to work with marriott and be legal. then we have to hang out on this forum to learn how to use the marriott club points. this will put us up at the top level since we already own about 450k vistana points. we actually don't end up using all the vistana so hoping with marriott points we can get more stays at places we actually want to go to. i will hang out here and learn. my husband is the reluctant P2 who just asks me where we are going when we get to the airport

 

[Dean]

Not if you sell them your child’s priceless artwork for $5000

That makes no difference. If the intent is to bypass ROFR, it's illegal for certain in FL no matter what nuances one wants to throw out unless they're reasonable and accurate. I realize that the chances of MVC pursuing this is minimal, that's not the point. The point is honesty and integrity or lack thereof.

 

[TolmiePeak]

What about the $3 per point Marriott enrollment fee since these are resale points? Even if they are sold for pennies, the buyer still has to pay the fee to be able to use them, correct?

Sure but still far cheaper than buying direct.

 

[TolmiePeak]

That makes no difference. If the intent is to bypass ROFR, it's illegal for certain in FL no matter what nuances one wants to throw out unless they're reasonable and accurate. I realize that the chances of MVC pursuing this is minimal, that's not the point. The point is honesty and integrity or lack thereof.

Minimal? I think you mean zero unless you had a big mouth. And why on earth would anyone go out of their way to be honest and ethical against a timeshare company?

 

[Dean]

And why on earth would anyone go out of their way to be honest and ethical against a timeshare company?

Integrity?

 

[vacationtime1]

That makes no difference. If the intent is to bypass ROFR, it's illegal for certain in FL no matter what nuances one wants to throw out unless they're reasonable and accurate. I realize that the chances of MVC pursuing this is minimal, that's not the point. The point is honesty and integrity or lack thereof.

Illegal? Please cite me a Florida statute which makes this illegal (i.e. a crime). It may be fraudulent if not done correctly, but it is not illegal.

But what kind of integrity does Marriott display when it uses ROFR to prevent a true gift? Not to mention Marriott's lack of honesty in the sales process.

What we are discussing is merely a contract provision -- ROFR. It seems that you are contending that any attempt to circumvent a contract provision is "illegal".

 

[Dean]

Illegal? Please cite me a Florida statute which makes this illegal. It may be fraudulent, but it is not illegal.

But what kind of integrity does Marriott display when it uses ROFR to prevent a true gift? Not to mention Marriott's lack of honesty in the sales process.

What we are discussing is merely a contract provision -- ROFR. It seems that you are contending that any attempt to circumvent a contract provision is "illegal".

I don't think it's a single statue but it would be the same as any ROFR under real estate law and there are exceptions where ROFR could be voided but I am not aware that any of them would apply here.. It would be a civi violation, not a criminal one though if that's your point. And I would submit that any secretive attempt not through channels to circumvent ROFR would be illegal in the civil sense. I do not believe in the idea that two wrong make a right so how MVC conducts themselves is not at issue, so no pass on that one.

 

[vacationtime1]

I don't think it's a single statue but it would be the same as any ROFR under real estate law and there are exceptions where ROFR could be voided but I am not aware that any of them would apply here.. It would be a civi violation, not a criminal one though if that's your point. And I would submit that any secretive attempt not through channels to circumvent ROFR would be illegal in the civil sense. I do not believe in the idea that two wrong make a right so how MVC conducts themselves is not at issue, so no pass on that one.

Let's suppose I own a timeshare worth $10K that I wish to transfer to my nephew for free and which my nephew actually wants. My goal is to make a gift worth $10K. We know that if I write a contract to transfer the timeshare for free, Marriott will step in and exercise ROFR, voiding my gift.

So instead, I gift my nephew $10K in cash and enter into a contract to sell him my timeshare for $10K. I admit that the intent is to circumvent ROFR, but there is nothing about either the cash gift or the timeshare purchase for $10K that is "illegal" (or even lacking in honesty or integrity).

It's all about how the transaction is structured.

 

[Eric B]

Illegal? Please cite me a Florida statute which makes this illegal (i.e. a crime). It may be fraudulent if not done correctly, but it is not illegal.

But what kind of integrity does Marriott display when it uses ROFR to prevent a true gift? Not to mention Marriott's lack of honesty in the sales process.

What we are discussing is merely a contract provision -- ROFR. It seems that you are contending that any attempt to circumvent a contract provision is "illegal".

I don’t practice in Florida, but would worry about this one:

Chapter 817 Section 03 - 2024 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

flsenate.gov

Fraudulent statements are generally illegal after all. It would likely be possible to draft a purchase agreement that would work to allow satisfaction of a transaction using other than cash or cash equivalents, of course. There could be additional issues to think about like the tax implications to the seller given the existence of a contract saying they are getting a specific value of consideration for the TS; unlikely to trigger capital gains unless it started out resale, but could be an issue in some cases.

If the ROFR request is sent by email, there is also the issue of wire fraud under federal law. That isn’t to say that it’s likely “they” would look to prosecute someone for a false statement to a TS developer to avoid ROFR, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be fraud. YMMV on whether the legal risk is worth the reward or is properly mitigated by exchanging something of sufficient value, forgiving a debt, or just never getting around to collecting the proceeds. They can all have consequences, of course.

18 U.S. Code § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television

www.law.cornell.edu