New scientific paper: offshore wind turbines alter marine eco-system, could shift ocean currents

[Brett]

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[Carolinian]

Of course, the thread is really about extreme right wing politics (non-rational)

I think Michael Moore would find it either amusing or insulting if he learned you called him "extreme right wing". He is way out there on the left wing, but he understands that wind and solar do not make either environmental or economic sense.

 

[TolmiePeak]

So? Greenpeace is a cult?

That depends on who you ask.

 

[Brett]

 

[Carolinian]

Another anti-science kook...

Joanne Nova - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joanne_Nova

Wikipedia bias on certain topics, one being the climate debate, is as one sided as that of Pravda or of Josef Goebbels. It is not a valid source.

Wikipropaganda On Global Warming

National Review: Wikipedia Is A Stunning Example Of How The Propaganda Machine Works

www.cbsnews.com

Even Wikipedia's co-founder has denounced it having become "badly biased to the left" after all the original controls to guard against bias were abandoned.

Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger slams site's leftist bias

Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger, 52, right, called alleged bias on the site 'disheartening.' His own Wikipedia page documents a history of criticism against the site.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[davidvel]

I don't care about system costs, our energy is basically free. What do you pay a month? You post lots of garbage from gibberish spouting cultists; doesn't change fact.

California has pushed wind and solar very hard but it has some of the highest power prices in the country.

Our energy is free, how much do you pay a month for your cheap electricity?

So? Greenpeace is a cult?

Yes.

 

[Brett]

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[ScoopKona]

Wikipedia bias on certain topics, one being the climate debate, is as one sided as that of Pravda or of Josef Goebbels. It is not a valid source.

Ah, yes, your sources are unimpeachable. Everyone else's are "biased."

How about more accurately, your sources are absolute nutters. And it makes as much sense as believing anything the American Tobacco Institute had to say about smoking. Nobody is buying the nonsense you're peddling.

 

[Carolinian]

View attachment 119714

Brett, "the science" has become the excuse these days for one side of a policy debate to try to claim to be correct, when actually science is divided. In his farewell address, President Eisenhower warned of allowing government dominated science to seize control of policy. Immediately after his famous language about a "military industrial complex" he warned about a "scientific-technological elite"

Here are President Eisenhower's words"

"Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite." -President Dwight Eisenhower

Real science has always operated through debate, but today's pseudo-science wants to claim a "consensus" and refuse to debate.

 

[Carolinian]

Ah, yes, your sources are unimpeachable. Everyone else's are "biased."

How about more accurately, your sources are absolute nutters. And it makes as much sense as believing anything the American Tobacco Institute had to say about smoking. Nobody is buying the nonsense you're peddling.

They pretty well document how the bias at Wikipedia works, whether you want to recognize it or not. The co-founder of Wikipedia certainly knows how the mechanism to foster neutrality was supposed to work and how it has been subverted.

 

[davidvel]

"the science" has become the excuse these days for one side of a policy debate to try to claim to be correct, when actually science is divided. In his farewell address, President Eisenhower warned of allowing government dominated science to seize control of policy. Immediately after his famous language about a "military industrial complex" he warned about a "scientific-technological elite"

Here are President Eisenhower's words"

"Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite." -President Dwight Eisenhower

Eisenhower? That is your expert source for a renewable energy discussion? Man I knew you were old, but this is a stretch even for you. What did Moses have to say about the subject?

How much did Eisenhower pay a month for electricity?

How much do you pay a month for your cheap electricity?

 

[Carolinian]

Eisenhower? That is your expert source for a renewable energy discussion? Man I knew you were old, but this is a stretch even for you. What did Moses have to say about the subject?

How much did Eisenhower pay a month for electricity?

How much do you pay a month for your cheap electricity?

The Eisenhower quote was not in response to your posts, but to Brett's post about a "US War on Science"

Our electric rates in eastern North Carolina are about one third of the rates in wind and solar obsessed Germany. If we start prematurely closing conventional power plants and building more wind and solar, then our rates will look more like those in Germany.

 

[Brett]

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[davidvel]

The Eisenhower quote was not in response to your posts, but to Brett's post about a "US War on Science"

Our electric rates in eastern North Carolina are about one third of the rates in wind and solar obsessed Germany. If we start prematurely closing conventional power plants and building more wind and solar, then our rates will look more like those in Germany.

But how is YOUR energy generated and what do you pay a month? Not Germany, or do you live in Germany?

 

[Carolinian]

But how is YOUR energy generated and what do you pay a month? Not Germany, or do you live in Germany?

There is a good bit of nuclear from the plant near Wilmington, and also some coal and gas. There is hydro in the western part of the state. The wind turbines near Edenton send their power out of state, fortunately, but there are some solar farms around. The comparison with Germany was a calculation by one of our local legislators during the debate over Duke Energy's push for wind and solar.

 

[Carolinian]

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View attachment 119716






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View attachment 119717
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Cheapest energy????? You might want to go back and listen to the video from a British source talking about how going that route tripled the cost of their energy.

 

[Brett]

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[davidvel]

There is a good bit of nuclear from the plant near Wilmington, and also some coal and gas. There is hydro in the western part of the state. The wind turbines near Edenton send their power out of state, fortunately, but there are some solar farms around. The comparison with Germany was a calculation by one of our local legislators during the debate over Duke Energy's push for wind and solar.

Why do you refuse to say how much you pay each month for electricity? Scared to?

Cheapest energy????? You might want to go back and listen to the video from a British source talking about how going that route tripled the cost of their energy.

Is zero cheap? Using solar and selling back for free overnight energy?

 

[heathpack]

No Tricks Zone offers only the translation of the original German article. If you want the scientific journal, you need to read German. I provided that link.

As for books, you might like one by the former president and prime minister of the Czech Republic, Dr. Vaclav Klaus, entitled "Blue Planet in Green Shackles: what is in jeopardy, climate or freedom?" which has been published in eight languages including English.

The article is actually written in English. Its a press release that's written in German.

 

[emeryjre]

Coal in the Stockings
The evidence from recent reporting shows that multiple coal companies are currently in default of their cleanup (reclamation) obligations, with some cases escalating into bond forfeitures, court actions, or “zombie mines” where cleanup has stalled entirely.
of cleanup obligations

• A&G Coal Corporation (owned by U.S. Sen. Jim Justice) is facing a federal contempt hearing for ongoing failure to comply with a 2023 consent decree requiring reclamation of nearly 5,000 acres across three abandoned mines.
  • They have missed multiple deadlines,
  • Not paid penalties,
  • And even continued mining despite being prohibited after missing deadlines.

“Zombie mines” — widespread defaults in Tennessee​

Tennessee is experiencing a systemic wave of cleanup defaults, with:

• 53 of 79 mining permits in bond forfeiture,
• $34.4 million in underfunded reclamation bonds,
• And no coal mined since 2022, leaving many mines abandoned.

Companies like Kopper Glo Mining, LLC have:

• Multiple bond forfeitures,
• Cleanup liabilities exceeding their posted bonds,
• And sites left unreclaimed with ongoing environmental damage.

Utilities seeking relief from cleanup rules
A group of 12 major utility companies holding over half a billion cubic yards of coal ash have formally asked EPA to relieve them of cleanup obligations for toxic coal ash sites.

People advocating for new coal plants fail to EVER mention these types of problems

​

 

[Carolinian]

More news from the real world:

Global coal demand hits record high in 2025 despite climate pledges

Despite years of “green” pledges, global coal demand hit a record high this year, jumping 0.5 percent to 8,845 million tons, new data from the International Energy Agency confirms.

www.junonews.com

 

[davidvel]

More news from the real world:

Global coal demand hits record high in 2025 despite climate pledges

Despite years of “green” pledges, global coal demand hit a record high this year, jumping 0.5 percent to 8,845 million tons, new data from the International Energy Agency confirms.

www.junonews.com

Let's be like the "Real World", China and India, no thanks.

Thankfully coal use in the US is declining, and not chasing the "Real World", despite your proclivities.

 

[emeryjre]

More news from the real world:

Global coal demand hits record high in 2025 despite climate pledges

Despite years of “green” pledges, global coal demand hit a record high this year, jumping 0.5 percent to 8,845 million tons, new data from the International Energy Agency confirms.

www.junonews.com

You are in favor of producing more toxic material??

We have a real problem with Coal ash already

Do you realize how large a pile 500 Million Cubic Yards of coal ash is

You do realize that coal ash contains a variety of toxic materials

Coal ash contains contaminants like mercury, cadmium, and arsenic.
Without proper management, these contaminants can pollute waterways, ground water, drinking water, and the air.
The need for federal action was highlighted by large coal ash spills near Kingston, Tennessee and Eden, North Carolina

A group of 12 major utility companies holding over half a billion cubic yards of coal ash have formally asked EPA to relieve them of cleanup obligations for toxic coal ash sites.

People advocating for new coal plants fail to EVER mention these types of problems

China and India have little Natural Gas

They have no choice but to burn coal to keep up with the demand for electricity for their growing economies

Their use of coal would be even higher without the use of solar and wind to supplement coal burning

China has also expanded the use of renewables at the fastest rate of any country in the last 5 years

Wind and solar generate over a quarter of China’s electricity for the first month on record | Ember

Solar output triples in 5 years, setting new record for share and generation

ember-energy.org

 

[emeryjre]

Australia will provide electricity for free during afternoon hours

Australian households to get free electricity three hours a day

Saying there is enough solar power for everyone in the daytime, the federal government will direct retailers to provide three hours of free power every day to consumers.

www.abc.net.au

Not something Carolinian's Aussie buddies want to talk about

 

[emeryjre]

We have heard multiple times (and I mean multiple) about Germanys high cost for electricity to the consumer

The costs are driven primarily by Germany's tax on electricity
Not the cost of production

Taxes and surcharges were the biggest cost driver​

Germany layered multiple policy charges onto electricity bills starting in the early 2000s.

• EEG renewable surcharge (to fund early solar/wind subsidies)
• Electricity tax
• VAT at 19%
• Concession fees to municipalities

These added 10–20 cents per kWh on top of the energy price — far more than nuclear could ever offset.

Even when nuclear provided cheap generation, the taxes alone made German electricity expensive.