A resale without estoppel? Seeking advice.

[iftravel]

I am in a process of adopting a free resale but the closing company doesn't want to obtain an estoppel before I commit to it. I appreciate any advice, especially from dear TUG veterans. Should I just cancel it? I feel a lot of risk / uncertainty placed on buyers and I do not like it. Isn't an estoppel always the first step?

 

[vacationtime1]

How about a different closing company?

I would not buy anything without knowing for certain what I am buying.

 

[iftravel]

How about a different closing company?

I would not buy anything without knowing for certain what I am buying.

Don't think I can choose. It's the closing department of a timeshare exit / resale company I believe (not to name it here). They promised that the ownership won't transfer if there's debt on it. I said I can wait for them to obtain an estoppel before I sign anything but they said they won't. I just don't understand the business logic here. What's the other way to verify the ownership and debt situation without even an estoppel?

 

[dioxide45]

Generally the estoppel comes after one has a signed contract. There are of course a lot of exceptions to this and you may find some sellers or brokers willing to provide one before. However, some timeshares and systems charge for an estoppel, so they don't want to pay for one if you are a tire kicker. If the estoppel doesn't match the contract, then the deal should be cancelled.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

But you also need to know if there are current year points or future year points e.g. has it been drained and you would be responsible for 2025 maintenance fees for points you don't get to use? Free is not free under that scenario.

You also need to ascertain exactly what unit and season this is. Mistakes happen. I wouldn't take anything without some form of guarantee in writing.

If an owner wants to give it away, and it is a not a highly demanded resale unit, they may need to pay for an estoppel to do so.

 

[iftravel]

Generally the estoppel comes after one has a signed contract. There are of course a lot of exceptions to this and you may find some sellers or brokers willing to provide one before. However, some timeshares and systems charge for an estoppel, so they don't want to pay for one if you are a tire kicker. If the estoppel doesn't match the contract, then the deal should be cancelled.

Yeah, that can also make sense but they said they will not obtain an estoppel for the property implying they simply won't during the process. Let me ask them one more time.

 

[SteveinHNL]

I would send a pleasant email reminding escrow that they have a fiduciary duty to both parties and that you are demanding an estoppel document. I would also let them know that in the event they refuse, you will consider the escrow company to be warranting the seller's representations as to points, use, week, and condition of title.

 

[dioxide45]

Yeah, that can also make sense but they said they will not obtain an estoppel for the property implying they simply won't during the process. Let me ask them one more time.

I took "closing company doesn't want to obtain an estoppel before I commit to it" as meaning they would get one if you commited.

 

[iftravel]

I would send a pleasant email reminding escrow that they have a fiduciary duty to both parties and that you are demanding an estoppel document. I would also let them know that in the event they refuse, you will consider the escrow company to be warranting the seller's representations as to points, use, week, and condition of title.

The company replied that they simply will not abtain an estoppel and since I insist, they have canceled it.

I took "closing company doesn't want to obtain an estoppel before I commit to it" as meaning they would get one if you commited.

No. They confirmed they simply won't obtain one during the process.

I don't know why but I feel OK not to proceed with them.

 

[GrayFal]

The company replied that they simply will not abtain an estoppel and since I insist, they have canceled it.

No. They confirmed they simply won't obtain one during the process.

I don't know why but I feel OK not to proceed with them.

It might be helpful for all to name the company - seems like one to avoid

 

[dioxide45]

The company replied that they simply will not abtain an estoppel and since I insist, they have canceled it.

No. They confirmed they simply won't obtain one during the process.

I don't know why but I feel OK not to proceed with them.

That does seem very odd. Is this an Ebay listing?

 

[vacationtime1]

The company replied that they simply will not abtain an estoppel and since I insist, they have canceled it.

No. They confirmed they simply won't obtain one during the process.

I don't know why but I feel OK not to proceed with them.

I would feel very un-OK proceeding with this company.

They have made it clear they will not provide an estoppel (I assume you offered to pay for it), meaning they will not stand behind whatever it is that they are selling.

Yes, please tell us who they are.

 

[free2travel]

I don't know why but I feel OK not to proceed with them

Feel OK? Best to tell them to get lost at the first hint of such nonsense. For one thing, they're not selling some ultra-rare, just-invented necessity, and they obviously need to be reminded of that. Bad actors in commerce need to be shunned. idk why people want to treat stuff like this with kid gloves

 

[DeniseM]

Here's the thing - ebay resellers often do the title transfer in-house themselves to save money and pad their fees. A REPUTABLE title transfer company would request an estoppel for you. I would not proceed with this purchase.

***Is this from the TUG Free Timeshare Forum? Please post the name of the seller.

 

[WorldT]

If they are not going to obtain one at all, then let it go.
If they will obtain one once you commit, then you have the option of getting all the information that would normally appear in writing with a clause that allows you to back out if the Estoppel ends up being different.

 

[iftravel]

This seller / company is not unknown on TUG and someone had good experience when I researched. So PM me if you want the exact name. Also another red flag / lesson learned is they ask you to sign with a notary something called “Limited Power of Attorney” which basically grant them anything they can do related to the transaction. Hinder-side it’s a mistake but no harm done yet since it’s canceled. I was told it becomes a common practice but now I’m strongly against it. It’s just way over-protective to sellers / brokers and not aligned with the interest of buyers. Please share your experience and opinions of this POA requirement, I would run away immediately next time if anyone asks for it!!!

 

[SteveinHNL]

Here's the thing - ebay resellers often do the title transfer in-house themselves to save money and pad their fees. A REPUTABLE title transfer company would request an estoppel for you. I would not proceed with this purchase.

***Is this from the TUG Free Timeshare Forum? Please post the name of the seller.

And I would suggest leaving a negative review on eBay explaining exactly what happened, so others can be aware.

 

[SteveinHNL]

This seller / company is not unknown on TUG and someone had good experience when I researched. So PM me if you want the exact name. Also another red flag / lesson learned is they ask you to sign with a notary something called “Limited Power of Attorney” which basically grant them anything they can do related to the transaction. Hinder-side it’s a mistake but no harm done yet since it’s canceled. I was told it becomes a common practice but now I’m strongly against it. It’s just way over-protective to sellers / brokers and not aligned with the interest of buyers. Please share your experience and opinions of this POA requirement, I would run away immediately next time if anyone asks for it!!!

I think it's reasonable to share this info publicly. You found it helpful to see someone's positive experience on TUG. This will be no less true for the next person to see a less than positive experience. Just be sure to post the facts accurately and objectively so folks can evaluate the situation and use it in aid of their decision making.

 

[dioxide45]

This seller / company is not unknown on TUG and someone had good experience when I researched. So PM me if you want the exact name. Also another red flag / lesson learned is they ask you to sign with a notary something called “Limited Power of Attorney” which basically grant them anything they can do related to the transaction. Hinder-side it’s a mistake but no harm done yet since it’s canceled. I was told it becomes a common practice but now I’m strongly against it. It’s just way over-protective to sellers / brokers and not aligned with the interest of buyers. Please share your experience and opinions of this POA requirement, I would run away immediately next time if anyone asks for it!!!

Limited Power of Attorney is something that is quite common in real estate transactions. Many lenders have you sign one. I don't know the specifics of the one you referred to, but those from big mortgage lenders allow them to sign or initial certain documents in the event of a simple error or typo that doesn't fundamentally change the terms of the transaction.

 

[iftravel]

Limited Power of Attorney is something that is quite common in real estate transactions. Many lenders have you sign one. I don't know the specifics of the one you referred to, but those from big mortgage lenders allow them to sign or initial certain documents in the event of a simple error or typo that doesn't fundamentally change the terms of the transaction.

Here is the exact language: “To perform any and all acts necessary to convey the real and personal property. This power includes but is not limited to contacting the resort on Grantor(s) behalf, making inquiries into the status of this property, executing any and all documents, notarial or otherwise, in the names written below to carry out the transfer of said property. Grantee has the power to perform all and every act and thing fully and to the same extent as the Grantor(s) could do if personally present, with full power of substitution and revocation in connection with this property.”

Not sure if the language is commonly acceptable on surface, but combined with the fact they don’t want to obtain an estoppel from the beginning to the end is absurd to me.

 

[TravelJoy]

Limited Power of Attorney is something that is quite common in real estate transactions. Many lenders have you sign one. I don't know the specifics of the one you referred to, but those from big mortgage lenders allow them to sign or initial certain documents in the event of a simple error or typo that doesn't fundamentally change the terms of the transaction.

Why would a buyer require a POA none of the resales I have engaged in even required me to have anything signed by notary it was on the sellers end.

 

[fishwithwater]

During one of my last transfers, the seller also asked me to sign a Limited Power of Attorney, which I declined. The rest of the transaction went smoothly tho. You can just decline.

 

[WorldT]

The Limited POA may only be considered necessary for the seller so the closing company can represent the buyer in obtaining the Estoppel and other transactions. If anyone asks you as the buyer to sign one, the answer should be no.

 

[iftravel]

During one of my last transfers, the seller also asked me to sign a Limited Power of Attorney, which I declined. The rest of the transaction went smoothly tho. You can just decline.

The Limited POA may only be considered necessary for the seller so the closing company can represent the buyer in obtaining the Estoppel and other transactions. If anyone asks you as the buyer to sign one, the answer should be no.

Thanks point well taken. Should be a non-starter signal.

 

[GrayFal]

There certainly is a lot of good information in this thread - buyers beware.