New poll: 65% of Americans unlikely to buy EV's; 29% likely

[MrockStar]

Damn - Teslas don't come with a spare or a jack.

Our car had neither a jack nor a spare. We could have bought the car with a full-size replacement, but that would have left no room for luggage in the trunk.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-day-our-tesla-deflated-california-charging-station-ev-flat-tire-family-road-trip-9d8966b1?mod=opinion_lead_pos12

There too heavy for conventional jacks.

 

[Passepartout]

There too heavy for conventional jacks.

That's really not the issue. They come with run-flat tires, and with the air-pressure sensors built-in, the driver has plenty of time to get to a tire shop. Catastrophic failure (what we used to call a 'blowout') are so infrequent that to carry around a spare tire is a waste of time and space. Our Honda PHEV has a 12v air compressor that has not been used in the 6 years we've owned the car.

 

[PigsDad]

That's really not the issue. They come with run-flat tires, and with the air-pressure sensors built-in, the driver has plenty of time to get to a tire shop. Catastrophic failure (what we used to call a 'blowout') are so infrequent that to carry around a spare tire is a waste of time and space.

Spot on.

Complaining that the Tesla doesn't come w/ a spare tire is sort of like complaining it also doesn't come with a gas cap! Makes for a good sensationalized headline, but as usual, it is just more crap from the anti-EV-for-no-good-reason-other-than-an-orange-haired-guy-said-so crowd.

Kurt

 

[Passepartout]

Spot on.

Complaining that the Tesla doesn't come w/ a spare tire is sort of like complaining it also doesn't come with a gas cap!

local lube joint had a sign on their readerboard last week: Free Oil Changes for Teslas!

 

[easyrider]

Spot on.

Complaining that the Tesla doesn't come w/ a spare tire is sort of like complaining it also doesn't come with a gas cap! Makes for a good sensationalized headline, but as usual, it is just more crap from the anti-EV-for-no-good-reason-other-than-an-orange-haired-guy-said-so crowd.

Kurt

I'm not a fan of ev's in most settings and definitely not a fan of any politician. EV's have a place and that is mainly on the golf course, imo.

Bill

 

[Carolinian]

EVs release MORE toxic emissions than gas-powered cars: study

Electric vehicles' heavy weight causes its tire tread to wear out faster than standard, gas-powered vehicles, causing it to release a pollution that is 1,000 times worse than exhaust fumes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Mongoose]

I'd be happy with a Hybrid or plug-in Hybrid. Pure EV's just don't make sense for me.

 

[Carolinian]

Lithium battery warehouse goes up in flames

Blaze raises concerns about storage of components known to spontaneously combust

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[easyrider]

For me, the only reason we would buy an ev is for cost and ability. We wouldn't buy one to reduce co2. Many people buy these claiming they are doing so to reduce co2 but the things they do in their regular life are highly co2 producing which seem kind of hypocritical. For instance, a person buys an ev then goes on a cruise or flys somewhere. A cruise ship uses over 80,000 gallons of diesel fuel each day on average. A 737 uses 840 gallons of kerosene jet fuel per hour.

So is the reduction of co2 really the reason to buy an ev ? What am I missing ?

Bill

 

[Mongoose]

For me, the only reason we would buy an ev is for cost and ability. We wouldn't buy one to reduce co2. Many people buy these claiming they are doing so to reduce co2 but the things they do in their regular life are highly co2 producing which seem kind of hypocritical. For instance, a person buys an ev then goes on a cruise or flys somewhere. A cruise ship uses over 80,000 gallons of diesel fuel each day on average. A 737 uses 840 gallons of kerosene jet fuel per hour.

So is the reduction of co2 really the reason to buy an ev ? What am I missing ?

Bill

Pollution Perspective: One Giant Cargo Ship Emits As Much As 50 MILLION Cars

Modern technology cuts vehicle emissions by 98 percent in developed countries, but uncontrolled pollution from cargo ships utterly negates those improvements

www.greencarreports.com

 

[4TimeAway]

Range anxiety is real, but so is cost. I think its all about the $$$$.

We have a 4x4 Truck with a Hemi, a plug-in Hybrid Volt, and have toyed with an EV.

The VW ID.4 was $10,000 over sticker for a bit, came with 3 years free charging at some places and a $7,500 tax credit. Fast forward to today, its $5,000-10,000 under sticker, still comes with 3 years free charging at some places and the $7,500 credit. We are almost able to justify except:

1. Range anxiety is real.
2. The Volt works well at 85,000 miles so far oil changes, a set of tires and a shifter assembly replacement (<$200). It is having some CarPlay issues but works 95% of the time.
3. The Volt is paid off.
4. Most companies seem to have standardized on the Tesla charging systems and so I’m concerned of resale 5-10 years from now.
5. In Los Angeles rates of electricity can push $0.35/kWh, which makes it higher cost to operate if the “free” charging is not used. Time is money, so it's not a huge issue, but is a consideration.

The other plug-ins and EVs we like are $50,000+ to replace the Volt and that is crazy.

 

[Rjbeach2003]

The only stat that counts is actual sales. Sales are up. In our family, youngest daughter and husband just bought an EV, other daughter and husband are looking to buy EV in next few months and same with son and daughter. My wife and I just freed up dollars to buy EV in the next month or so. So that is four new owners this year. We will all keep car for road trips, but since most trips are less than 25-50 miles, in fact most less than 5 EV is way to go.

 

[Mongoose]

The only stat that counts is actual sales. Sales are up.

The same is true for fentanyl use. But seriously, if it works for you great. It doesn't work for me.

If you think it is somehow good for the environment, its not; actual numbers are unknown but its estimated that 100,000-500,000 lbs of raw earth must be mined for each battery. Of that only 0.2% are the usable elements and the remaining 99.8% is now contaminated displaced earth (EV's use 400lbs more rare earth elements than standard cars. There are not limitless Supples.) If you think its an ethical choice, there are plenty of children being forced into child labor that would tell you otherwise. Each EV is the equivalent of an additional 10-20 refrigerator being plugged in. The grid is struggling now. Last year some areas were telling people what days of the week they can charge their EVs. . What happens when the equivalent of 200,000,000 refrigerators are plugged in? The only reason sales are what they are is the massive subsidies being offered.

 

[DrQ]

The only stat that counts is actual sales. Sales are up. In our family, youngest daughter and husband just bought an EV, other daughter and husband are looking to buy EV in next few months and same with son and daughter. My wife and I just freed up dollars to buy EV in the next month or so. So that is four new owners this year. We will all keep car for road trips, but since most trips are less than 25-50 miles, in fact most less than 5 EV is way to go.

We have owned our EV for 5 years and I have to remind myself to fire up our "gas guzzlers" to keep the batteries charged.

We just had to have the battery replace the battery (under warranty) on or GV70 because of no use. The EV is just so easy and fun to drive.

 

[Rjbeach2003]

For me, the only reason we would buy an ev is for cost and ability. We wouldn't buy one to reduce co2. Many people buy these claiming they are doing so to reduce co2 but the things they do in their regular life are highly co2 producing which seem kind of hypocritical. For instance, a person buys an ev then goes on a cruise or flys somewhere. A cruise ship uses over 80,000 gallons of diesel fuel each day on average. A 737 uses 840 gallons of kerosene jet fuel per hour.

So is the reduction of co2 really the reason to buy an ev ? What am I missing ?

Bill

We get it, you don't like the idea of EV's or EV's in general. Your arguments against are so scattershot that they will never change anyone's mind. Yes we as humans make choices that my be counter to our best interests, but changes can come in little pieces and in some cases larger pieces. You can chose to be anti progress if you want, but progress will happen even if you are screaming as you drag you feet trying to stop it. Have fun.

 

[Mongoose]

We get it, you don't like the idea of EV's or EV's in general. Your arguments against are so scattershot that they will never change anyone's mind. Yes we as humans make choices that my be counter to our best interests, but changes can come in little pieces and in some cases larger pieces. You can chose to be anti progress if you want, but progress will happen even if you are screaming as you drag you feet trying to stop it. Have fun.

Sorry, but we don’t all see it as progress. The premise is built on lies, misinformation and bribes. Talk to the children forced into slave like labor conditions about progress.

 

[easyrider]

We get it, you don't like the idea of EV's or EV's in general. Your arguments against are so scattershot that they will never change anyone's mind. Yes we as humans make choices that my be counter to our best interests, but changes can come in little pieces and in some cases larger pieces. You can chose to be anti progress if you want, but progress will happen even if you are screaming as you drag you feet trying to stop it. Have fun.

So how is it progress ? What I see the most are higher income people buying ev's to act environmentally friendly when their actions seem the exact opposite. Reducing co2 by ev just seem so pretentious when these buyers trips, cruises and other co2 intensive activities are factored in. It's like the guy in a Hummer but reversed.

I do respect the decision to buy and use an ev because for many people it is a better product fiancially. But, it's a hard pill to shallow the with whole I'm saving the planet by driving an ev idea, imo.

Bill

 

[dannybaker]

Just had our Tesla model s totaled was hit from behind at 5 mph. We refuse to buy another Tesla as long as musk is in charge. I’m sure a lot of people will think that crazy but that’s how we feel. Electric cars are amazing but The infrastructure is not yet available to support. The cars seem to have the largest depreciation also.

 

[Mongoose]

Just had our Tesla model s totaled was hit from behind at 5 mph. We refuse to buy another Tesla as long as musk is in charge. I’m sure a lot of people will think that crazy but that’s how we feel. Electric cars are amazing but The infrastructure is not yet available to support. The cars seem to have the largest depreciation also.

That sounds more political than anything else. Check out the Rivians being totaled. Musk revolutionized the electric vehicle as well as space flight. What he has done for rocketry is one of the best improvements in concervation in the past 10 years. He just reused a single rocket booster for the 14th time. Nasa can do that twice.

 

[4TimeAway]

It is all marketing. Saving the world by buying more stuff, doesn’t really work.

However for us, I'm selling myself:
In CA the carpool sticker has some value in that it saves some of us 1/2 hour a day.
The EV tax rebate of $7,500.
Manufacturer Dealer incentives of $6,000+.
VW Free charging for 3 years ($5,000?).
Trade In/Sell the Volt $15,000.

It can pencil out like a TIMESHARE!

Not free, but a hell of deal if you play their game.
Bought a 2018 Volt for $28,000 and received $7,5000-ish back if memory serves me correctly. In my mind I call it $20,000 and can sell for about $15,000 6 years later. There are worse things than a well-timed car purchase.

 

[jp10558]

I was hoping an EV would be my next car after my 2018 Outback, but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case. Partly because my entire usecase changed to long road trip comfy vehicles, which is one reason the Outback is going - the back seat gets hellish with 3 people, or just after about 6ish hours. I also strongly prefer something slightly off road capable like the Outback is (added off road tires and skid plates). I just find comfort in the ability to more easily take punishing pot-holes, road damage, as well as seasonally limited roads and our own trails just for fun.

I test sat in the Ascent, Grand Highlander, Oddessy, and Pilot. These were the class of cars I was seriously considering. The only similar EVs I was aware of was the Model Y which is too small from what I could tell, looked about the size of the Outback (I don't have a Tesla dealer around to go test sit any of these so IDK, kind of ruled them out). Same issue with a Rivian - no idea where I could even test sit if I could possible afford one.

I ended up ordering a Honda Pilot Trailsport - only one that was similar in off road to the Outback, has knobs for climate and radio still, and doesn't have a turbo engine. Because of crazy model line / package stuff, I got the Trailsport model for the same as a fully loaded Ascent, i.e. not too expensive, but I had to give up some amenities which is unfortunate like heated back seats and navigation. That said, I never use the built in nav, and hope to mount my Garmin the same in the Trailsport, and have Android Auto as a backup I guess.

Some of the old skool stuff I really liked in having a V6, a full size spare tire (I've never owned a car with that!), and traditional auto vs CVT. Which is probably better for towing.


All that stuff to the side, I was much more pro EV when I was mostly driving myself to work and back every day, but now that we're 2-4 adults driving 2+ days on trips to Timeshares, EVs make way less sense. I continue to hope that the new Honda will last at least 7 years like the Outback did, and maybe in 2031 there'll be reasonable competitive priced EVs that fit whatever my life is doing at that point. I don't especially love having to go to gas stations when I'm not traveling, but I do like the quick fill up on my road trips.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The same is true for fentanyl use. But seriously, if it works for you great. It doesn't work for me.

If you think it is somehow good for the environment, its not; actual numbers are unknown but its estimated that 100,000-500,000 lbs of raw earth must be mined for each battery. Of that only 0.2% are the usable elements and the remaining 99.8% is now contaminated displaced earth (EV's use 400lbs more rare earth elements than standard cars. There are not limitless Supples.) If you think its an ethical choice, there are plenty of children being forced into child labor that would tell you otherwise. Each EV is the equivalent of an additional 10-20 refrigerator being plugged in. The grid is struggling now. Last year some areas were telling people what days of the week they can charge their EVs. . What happens when the equivalent of 200,000,000 refrigerators are plugged in? The only reason sales are what they are is the massive subsidies being offered.

At least some of what you're claiming is FUD IMHO - particularly the statement about subsidies - at least specific to consumer subsidies - as there are other subsidies you may be referring to - that's really too general a term to use. For example, Tesla enjoyed massive sales increases from 2019-2023 with zero consumer subsidies since they had exhausted all 200k vehicle maximum volume based previous subsidies in 2018. Go look at the sales numbers from Tesla during that span of time - then explain to me how your claim about the only reason sales are what they are is due to the massive subsidies - those were in fact the heady good days for Tesla in reality (unlike now - when we're seeing Tesla EV sales growth stall in 2024). The consumer subsidies were changed starting in 2023 with the IRA, yet while sales are still rising, the rate of acceleration/adoption has been falling for the past several months now. The reality is that the subsidies - at least for consumers - don't have much impact on adoption IMHO. The issues of range anxiety, charging times, real world range, etc., have far more impact than any subsidies do, as is clearly evidenced by the fact that though subsidies were renewed effective 1/1/2023, they have stricter qualification requirements, and the rate of adoption has been slowing after the subsidies were renewed.

This is likely because the early adopters, which typically are the first 10% of mass market buyers, have been saturated, and now the more normative/traditional consumers in the next tranche of buyers is up next, but this subset of buyers is more skeptical and cares more about the above listed issues than the early adopters - which itself is divided up into two tranches - the alpha early adopters - the true believers in the mission (eco orientation), and the beta early adopters - like me - who need to see real numbers and enough technological progress to consider a purchase - and tend to be the ones that are more openly critical of the overall shortcomings of the emerging technologies in scope. I frequent various EV forums and I'm generally categorized as a "Debbie Downer" type because while I understand the mission and am a beta early adopter - I'm also openly skeptical that EVs are currently good enough to promote mass adoption by traditional consumers - and I'm definitely skeptical of the late stage skeptics doing so.

Regarding the useable elements and such, batteries are 99% recyclable - and there are already recycling plants built and running that recycle all types of batteries. We don't need limitless supplies (unlike with gas/oil) because we can re-use the same materials repeatedly over time. Anyone interested in how this recycling process actually works at a real world recycling plant here in the US, here's a decent video to watch on this topic:

The comment about power consumption is absolutely valid - even Musk's MP3 (Master Plan 3) clearly indicates that electrification of the fleet, along with electrification of other areas, will ultimately require 3x current power generation - which is why Musk has repeatedly stated that we need major investments in solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc, to make this transition possible.

 

[DrQ]

I ended up ordering a Honda Pilot Trailsport - only one that was similar in off road to the Outback, has knobs for climate and radio still, and doesn't have a turbo engine. Because of crazy model line / package stuff, I got the Trailsport model for the same as a fully loaded Ascent, i.e. not too expensive, but I had to give up some amenities which is unfortunate like heated back seats and navigation. That said, I never use the built in nav, and hope to mount my Garmin the same in the Trailsport, and have Android Auto as a backup I guess.

Some of the old skool stuff I really liked in having a V6, a full size spare tire (I've never owned a car with that!), and traditional auto vs CVT. Which is probably better for towing.


All that stuff to the side, I was much more pro EV when I was mostly driving myself to work and back every day, but now that we're 2-4 adults driving 2+ days on trips to Timeshares,

I bought my Bolt EV in 2019 as a commuter car, but then this COVID thing happened and I started WFH. I still love the Bolt EV as a city car. I would never take a trip in it.

For a road trip car, we bought a Genesis GV70 that is fully decked out. The GV70 has a conventional transmission with a V6 option. The GV70 is more of a performance crossover like the Porsche Macan and the Sport + is awesome on twisty back roads.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Will the Aptera make it out the door? If so, the long range version (1,000) mile version would be acceptable for me. Until then, my 12 year old Hundai will do just fine. . .

 

[HitchHiker71]

Range anxiety is real, but so is cost. I think its all about the $$$$.

We have a 4x4 Truck with a Hemi, a plug-in Hybrid Volt, and have toyed with an EV.

We have a 2018 RAM 1500 Limited with the 5.7l hemi. We also have a 2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range - my wife's daily driver. It's perfect for her daily commutes and errands around town - and for any roadtrips within 5-6 hours each way total - it's pretty ideal - beyond that we're more likely to take our truck - simply because we can get roughly 600 miles on a single tank of gas on the highway. I've not personally found range anxiety to be an issue since the Tesla SC network reigns supreme.

1. Range anxiety is real.

Definitely is a real thing especially for traditional consumers. With the non-Tesla EV makers gaining access to the Tesla SC network - this will at least partially be remediated - but there's still a lot of room for improvement when it comes to the public charging networks.

2. The Volt works well at 85,000 miles so far oil changes, a set of tires and a shifter assembly replacement (<$200). It is having some CarPlay issues but works 95% of the time.
3. The Volt is paid off.

Our truck is paid off, the Tesla MY isn't. I don't see us replacing the truck any time soon given I still do some truck things with it - and the EV pickup choices are slim (Rivian R1T, Ford F150L, Cybertruck are really the only options available at present). Maybe a RAM REV 1500 may be in our future at some point - but the higher end EV pickups are all selling for 80-100k new, which is far too rich for our blood.

4. Most companies seem to have standardized on the Tesla charging systems and so I’m concerned of resale 5-10 years from now.

Not sure what you mean? The SAE standardized on the NACS J3400 standard - that's not the Tesla standard. It uses the same NACS connector port as part of the SEA NACS J3400 standard - but the J3400 communication protocol is a CCS based protocol - i.e. it's not the native Tesla NACS protocol originally programmed by Tesla. This is why Tesla had to swap out circuit boards on all 16000 V3 SC stalls over the past year to make their V3 stalls compatible with the SAE NACS J3400 standard so that third party BEVs can use Tesla SC stations. Tesla, by far, has the best and most reliable public charging network here in the US, I would not buy a BEV that didn't have access to the Tesla SC network personally. It's literally plug and play easy to use.