HGV agrees to purchase BlueGreen Vacations

[ernststarhemberg]

This consolidation in the timeshare world is going to continue, possibly even accelerate over the next few years.

I'm neutral on it from an HGV owner's perspective.

Stinks for the BlueGreen back office people who are going to find themselves "synergied" out of a job. Plus side is both HGV and BG are headquartered in Florida, so maybe some of those folks will be able to transfer.

Overall I feel about the BlueGreen acquisition the same as I felt about the Diamond acquisition. I don't have plans to stay at these properties, and aside from the lowest quality properties they seem pretty difficult for an HGV owner to get into at the 6-month mark, anyway. Net-nothing from where I'm sitting.

 

[HuskerATL]

Yes, I was thinking that in that respect it is very similar to HGVC. However, I think HGVC weeks are mostly floating, and all the Bluegreen deeds are backed as a fixed week and unit. With Bluegreen, if you elect to use your home ownership (not automatic, by the way, you have to notify them that you want to exercise it), you get exactly the week and unit listed on your deed. Also, with that style of ownership the paperwork does state that you are in a certain Trust type, I believe mine was Trust type E, it just also listed the specific unit number and week.

correct. Some are fixed in HGVC, like event weeks at some properties, Valdoro ski weeks, all of Craig Lodges, maybe Dunkeld....not sure about Craig Suites.

 

[cdrusnret]

I don't know about the renting restrictions, but take a look at how resales of HGVC vs. old Diamond ownerships are handled. Even after the merger, Diamond resale owners have many restrictions on reservations whereas HGVC resale owners are still treated almost the same as retail owners, just not eligible for Max. Makes me think they will keep the Bluegreen resale restrictions after the merger, just like they did w/ the Diamond merger.

Kurt

I'm a Bluegreen owner. Bluegreen has been coming down hard on renters the last couple years, removing online access to their accounts and making them sign acknowledgements that they won't rent. They especially go after anyone who seems to have given their log-on info to a third party that then books and rents out vacations. Some owners claim to have experienced this even when only booking for friends and family. My contract forbids "renting for commercial purposes", newer contracts forbid renting at all. Bluegreen has also crushed the resale market the last two years, exercising ROFR on almost all resales. I'm personally 0 for 20 since February of 2022 - Bluegreen exercised ROFR on all 20 resale purchases I attempted. In the Bluegreen system, resale points work identical to charter points purchased from Bluegreen with the exception of they don't count towards higher medallion status. Many owners have a mix of charter points and resale points because once you own some charter points you can book Bonus Time (cash bookings up to 48 days out) at any resort with Bonus Time availability.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Oh no, more points nomenclature I have to try to understand

 

[escanoe]

HGV isn't leaving RCI anytime soon, but it does pull more resorts into the Hilton mini system. I think RCI is grasping at straws now with the loss of DVC and trying to increase fees to keep revenue in line. RCI certainly isn't going away, but the more and more we see smaller systems consolidate (even into Capital Vacations), the more irrelevant RCI becomes.

Time will tell what (if anything) HGV decides to make of DeX.

IMHO, RCI has done all they can to maximize profits/revenue from increasing exchange fees. They have to engage in major discounting (including on exchange fees) now to move much of the inventory that is less than prime. RCI is going to have to cut costs, modernize, and get much more efficient if it wants to be anything more than a white dwarf remnant of a star that was once was bright.

 

[jmann]

Or it will become a reason to create a "Max Plus" program. Do we think they will just add the new properties into the Max collection for free?

Kurt

Nope..something for free doesn’t sound likely to me. But I wanted to pu a Blugreen resale. Wondering if I should now.

 

[HuskerATL]

so much more sale's person baffling language....

 

[jmann]

I don't think this is a good thing.

And you are sure right about only a few properties being of interest. I think Hilton is such a high quality product, and much of Bluegreen isn't. But I think that of Diamond as well. Many Diamond properties like quality. I also think Wyndham has a lot of properties that could use some improvement, but Wyndham can only do so much with some.

Hilton would go along well with Big Cedar Lodge, or whatever it's called. Great property.

The end goal could be devastating for RCI, as these internal trading systems continue to get more locations.

And the Cliff at Long Creek just across the road are beautiful!

 

[GT75]

Nope..something for free doesn’t sound likely to me.

I also agree with this. HGV didn't include DRI for free so why should they include this?

 

[cdrusnret]

Which are the properties you found worthwhile?

I'm a Bluegreen owner and live in Michigan. The closest property to me is Mountain Run in Boyne Falls, Michigan. It is right next to the Boyne Mountain ski resort. The rooms aren't large but are comfortably equipped, the location is everything. We go every October when the leaves are changing. There is so much to see and do in the northern lower peninsula. Mountain Run is built to accommodate skiers, with a vestibule and locking closets for storing equipment. All buildings are two stories with no elevators, so if you struggle with stairs always request the first floor.

The Fountains in Orlando is Bluegreen's largest resort, is quite nice, and almost always has availability.

Tradewinds at St. Pete's beach is another one where you're not there for the room, which is good, because they don't have kitchens. But that gulf coast... man...

We've also enjoyed Daytona Seabreeze, the Marquee in New Orleans, Grand Villas in St. Augustine, and others.

My personal favorite is probably the Lodge Alley Inn in Charleston, SC. You are dead centered downtown, surrounded by fantastic restaurants, historical sites, museums, etc.

 

[buzglyd]

Does Bluegreen offer deeds or a trust product?

Both. It’s mostly trust now but there are still original deeded owners who aren’t in the club.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Here are the locations. Mainly USA. A lot of East Coast (which addresses the criticism of some TUG posters about HGVC). Not much out west. Some look interesting e.g. Big Sky. And Aruba.

There was no key as to what the brown vs. green dots mean...

BG also owns Manhattan Club which adds more to the NYC portfolio.

Browse Our Vacation Locations | Bluegreen Vacations

Browse all Bluegreen vacations resorts, locations, and destinations.

www.bluegreenvacations.com

 

[HuskerATL]

Lodge Alley Inn in Charleston, SC

I think that I saw this while we were at Liberty Place in Charleston.

 

[jmann]

I don't know about the renting restrictions, but take a look at how resales of HGVC vs. old Diamond ownerships are handled. Even after the merger, Diamond resale owners have many restrictions on reservations whereas HGVC resale owners are still treated almost the same as retail owners, just not eligible for Max. Makes me think they will keep the Bluegreen resale restrictions after the merger, just like they did w/ the Diamond merger.

Kurt

So I currently have HGVC and thinking of picking up a Blugreen resale for Big Cedar. What limitations do you think Hilton would place on me?

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Photos at the Aruba resort do look nice.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Or it will become a reason to create a "Max Plus" program. Do we think they will just add the new properties into the Max collection for free?

Kurt

That is my thought....HVC...unless they create another category "HVC-" .

All owners will need to join the new HGV Max Deluxe program to have access...

The news release several times mentions "the HGV Ultimate Access experiential platform".

Along with our long-standing relationship with Hilton, this highly complementary combination will also unlock additional upside by leveraging the infrastructure we have built over the past few years with the launch of the Hilton Vacation Club brand, our HGV Max membership offering, the HGV Ultimate Access experiential platform.

This is the first I have ever heard of HGV Ultimate Access.

 

[jmann]

Yes, I was thinking that in that respect it is very similar to HGVC. However, I think HGVC weeks are mostly floating, and all the Bluegreen deeds are backed as a fixed week and unit. With Bluegreen, if you elect to use your home ownership (not automatic, by the way, you have to notify them that you want to exercise it), you get exactly the week and unit listed on your deed. Also, with that style of ownership the paperwork does state that you are in a certain Trust type, I believe mine was Trust type E, it just also listed the specific unit number and week. It can be very weird and confusing because it is and yet it isn't a straight fixed week.

I was told you had your home week if wanted . If not used you could use the points elsewhere. Was this your experience?

 

[sponger76]

I was told you had your home week if wanted . If not used you could use the points elsewhere. Was this your experience?

Yes, which is what I was referring to when I said:

if you elect to use your home ownership (not automatic, by the way, you have to notify them that you want to exercise it), you get exactly the week and unit listed on your deed.

If you don't notify them by a certain point (I think 13 months in advance but I could be off) you then receive the points for your week to use in the system. This is assuming you don't have an older deed that was never enrolled into the points trust system.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Aside from 3 star quality, what is the general condition of these units? Is HGV going to have to massively renovate like some of the HVC that had deferred maintenance under Diamond's leadership? If so that could be a financial drag on everyone in the system.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, I was thinking that in that respect it is very similar to HGVC. However, I think HGVC weeks are mostly floating, and all the Bluegreen deeds are backed as a fixed week and unit. With Bluegreen, if you elect to use your home ownership (not automatic, by the way, you have to notify them that you want to exercise it), you get exactly the week and unit listed on your deed. Also, with that style of ownership the paperwork does state that you are in a certain Trust type, I believe mine was Trust type E, it just also listed the specific unit number and week. It can be very weird and confusing because it is and yet it isn't a straight fixed week.

So it seems pretty easy with a setup like this to severely limit resale purchases from converting to points. HGVC does currently allow this, but it could have easily been the other way.

 

[HuskerATL]

Well, it is official...Mark Wang just sent an email out. They will be "managed" properties though...

 

[cdrusnret]

Yes, I was thinking that in that respect it is very similar to HGVC. However, I think HGVC weeks are mostly floating, and all the Bluegreen deeds are backed as a fixed week and unit. With Bluegreen, if you elect to use your home ownership (not automatic, by the way, you have to notify them that you want to exercise it), you get exactly the week and unit listed on your deed. Also, with that style of ownership the paperwork does state that you are in a certain Trust type, I believe mine was Trust type E, it just also listed the specific unit number and week. It can be very weird and confusing because it is and yet it isn't a straight fixed week.

Correct, in Bluegreen you can exercise your Priority Use Period (PUP - the resort / room / week or partial week listed on your contract that underlies your points) from 13 months to 11 months and one day out. Doing so consumes those points. If you don't exercise your PUP, at 11 months you get the points deposited in your account.

 

[dioxide45]

I also agree with this. HGV didn't include DRI for free so why should they include this?

I suspect it won't be free for pure DRI, HGVC or BG owners. I do suspect if one is already in Max, they will get access as these resorts will just be added to Max as they bring them to Hilton brand standard.

 

[HuskerATL]

This is the first I have ever heard of HGV Ultimate Access.

 

[jmann]

Yes, which is what I was referring to when I said:

If you don't notify them by a certain point (I think 13 months in advance but I could be off) you then receive the points for your week to use in the system. This is assuming you don't have an older deed that was never enrolled into the points trust system.

Thank you. I had just started looking into a resale. But this system is quite different than Hilton and I wanted to be sure I understood what I was getting.