Hilton AmEx cards

[1Kflyerguy]

I purchased a resale Elara late last year. The activation Fee from Hilton LV52 posted to my account on Dec 24, and the credit posted on Dec 27th. To be honest i had not even though about the activation fee counting.

 

[GT75]

It seems to me that you should have gotten the credit also. I currently have a $655 activation fee pending (charged yesterday) for Hilton, Hilton Head Island (Ocean Oak). Once it is posted, I will let you know if I get the credit. I am expecting it because the MFs for Ocean Oak do give me the credit.

 

[Volcom32001]

Can you pay your MF early? The reason I'm asking is I just got approved for the Hilton AMEX Aspire cc and need to spend $4000 the first 3months to get the 150,000 bonus points. Is there any other tips for using this card? As far as the airline incidentals, any tips for Southwest?

 

[brp]

Can you pay your MF early? The reason I'm asking is I just got approved for the Hilton AMEX Aspire cc and need to spend $4000 the first 3months to get the 150,000 bonus points. Is there any other tips for using this card? As far as the airline incidentals, any tips for Southwest?

You can certainly pay off as soon as the billing statements show up. Not sure if it can be done before that.

For tricks on using it for airfare, the best place to look is www.flyertalk.com

For WN, the relevent thread is:

Flyertalk Southwest Thread

Cheers.

 

[letsgobobby]

Can you pay your MF early? The reason I'm asking is I just got approved for the Hilton AMEX Aspire cc and need to spend $4000 the first 3months to get the 150,000 bonus points. Is there any other tips for using this card? As far as the airline incidentals, any tips for Southwest?

you are about eight months early, they don't even know what the MFs will be next year.

 

[dayooper]

Can you pay your MF early? The reason I'm asking is I just got approved for the Hilton AMEX Aspire cc and need to spend $4000 the first 3months to get the 150,000 bonus points. Is there any other tips for using this card? As far as the airline incidentals, any tips for Southwest?

The budget meetings generally start in early to mid October. The 2023 MF's for Boulevard and Flamingo were billed on my HGVC Dashboard October 13th 2022. They are usually the first to post (one of the SW Florida Affiliates posted earlier but that's not the norm).

 

[GT75]

I haven't yet paid annual MF at Elara but have paid the $199 club dues and the $655 Hilton activation fee and haven't seen the resort credit yet. Charges are listed as:

HILTON LV52 COND HOAORLANDO FL

Does the charge for annual MF at Elara process differently? Has anyone had success with resort credit for dues / activation fee at Elara?

It seems to me that you should have gotten the credit also. I currently have a $655 activation fee pending (charged yesterday) for Hilton, Hilton Head Island (Ocean Oak). Once it is posted, I will let you know if I get the credit. I am expecting it because the MFs for Ocean Oak do give me the credit.

My Hilton activation fee for Ocean Oak resale purchase posted on my Hilton AmEx card on Thursday and Saturday showed that I did receive the 14x Points credit.

 

[raddoc]

My Hilton activation fee for Ocean Oak resale purchase posted on my Hilton AmEx card on Thursday and Saturday showed that I did receive the 14x Points credit.

@GT75 - Sorry for any confusion, I was inquiring about the $250 Amex annual resort credit which charges at Elara have been reported to qualify for, not the 14x points.

 

[GT75]

I was inquiring about the $250 Amex annual resort credit which charges at Elara have been reported to qualify for, not the 14x points.

NP, my mistake. Let me check back in a few days because I think that I have more credit left on my $250.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

The reason I'm asking is I just got approved for the Hilton AMEX Aspire cc and need to spend $4000 the first 3months to get the 150,000 bonus points. Is there any other tips for using this card?

What I did was I put EVERYTHING on the card. Gasoline, utilities, food, groceries, cellphone bill, car repairs, even church tithes/donations (if they take the card), you name it! Since those expenses you are already budgeting for, pay the card off every month. If the expense will cause you to not be able to pay it off, don't charge it. It takes a lot of will-power to prevent using the card's credit limit on fun stuff, but it can be done.

TS

 

[brp]

What I did was I put EVERYTHING on the card. Gasoline, utilities, food, groceries, cellphone bill, car repairs, even church tithes/donations (if they take the card), you name it! Since those expenses you are already budgeting for, pay the card off every month. If the expense will cause you to not be able to pay it off, don't charge it. It takes a lot of will-power to prevent using the card's credit limit on fun stuff, but it can be done.

TS

Agreed, especially for sign-up bonuses. We now put everything (even tax payments) on Hyatt-based cards to get Hyatt points. Even though taxes have a convenience fee, we can get more value from the points than the fee. Between property and income (including estimated) tax payments, it adds up to a bit.

Everything on the card. Always.

Cheers.

 

[letsgobobby]

this is why we signed up for the cards around the new year, so we could put all our HGVC MFs on the cards and help meet the spend requirement for the bonus.

 

[Nowaker]

Hilton Business card has the best payout when it comes to big spend goals (of course, signup bonuses are much more profitable are first priority at all times!). It has a milestone at $15K (free night cert) and $60K (another free night cert). Which makes this the best card for regular non-Hilton spend. Surpass is next - it only has a single milestone of $15K, but you should get one for each spouse. It will pay much more to reach two spend goals on Surpasses and one Business, than doing a single $60K on Aspire.

I was able to reach $15K on Surpass 1 and 2, $15K+$60K on Business and $60K on Aspire in 2022, so I didn't have to prioritize anything, just go with the flow, but with the home improvement project now concluded, I'm not going that far this year.

I'll probably do 2x $15K on Surpass, $15K on
Business, and then maybe just maybe $60K (which means $15K already reached, and then a fresh $45K on top) on Business. Not targeting Aspire $60K as it's too big of a goal.

For anyone interested, here's mathematic look at the cashback equivalent on each Hilton card. It accounts for the value of a free night certificate. Explanation first:

- A%/B%/C% - effective cashback on Amex Hilton Biz on $15K spend, then on $60K spend, then subsequent spend
- A%/B% - effective cashback on Surpass ($15K, then subsequent) or Aspire ($60K, then subsequent)

Cashback equivalents:

- Amex Hilton Biz - 7%/5%/3% ($15K/$60K/+)
- Amex Surpass - 7%/3% ($15K/+)
- Amex Hilton Aspire - 4%/3% ($60K/+) [best retail benefits: PP $10K/$50K, RP $300/$1K] (NFF)

Specific categories:

- Groceries: Amex Hilton Surpass - 10%/6% ($15K/+)
- Restaurants: Amex Hilton Biz - 10%/8%/6% ($15K/$60K/+)
- Restaurants: Amex Hilton Aspire - 8%/7% ($60K/+)
- Amex Hilton Biz - 10%/8%/6% ($15K/$60K/+)
- Amex Hilton Surpass - 10%/6% ($15K/+)

An interesting fact is that if you plan to hit $15K on Biz but won't be able to hit $60K on Aspire, it pays better to use Biz and not Aspire in restaurants, even though Biz is 6x and Aspire is 7x in HH points back.

Assumptions:

- HH point is worth $0.01. (I disagree with the TPG's opinion that they're worth $0.006. My valuation is based on all my Hilton bookings, where I compared HH cost with the cash cost at the time of booking, plus the value of F&B credit received. Arguably, the points buy you not only a hotel, but also a meal, so it should be included, but only for stays where I used it. So that's how I came to $0.01pp)
- Free night certificate is worth $400. (This is actually lower than my real FNC value of $565 across my all cert bookings - but that's what I assumed when I was making my calculations. An extra $150 in value per $15K milestone is like another 1% cashback equivalent on Surpass and Biz, for example)

Maybe I should create a cashback equivalent calculator, along with a tool that tells you which card to use in what order. Anyone interested? I need 5 heart emoki reactions to this comment to justify doing this.

 

[Zenichiro]

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Nowaker Given your analysis should my DH apply for the Surpass or the Aspire? I already have the Aspire and love the free nights, airfare benefits so get outsized value. We already have PP via 2-player Chase Sapphire Reserves. (I may downgrade one of these after our next rounds of travel to avoid 2 MF and to get a signing bonus from the Chase Sapphire $95 card.) We already get Diamond elite with my Aspire card.

I like the Aspire but the AFs add up. Would it be better to get a 15k free night with Surpass? We could use the grocery benefit.

 

[Zenichiro]

@Nowaker Given your analysis should my DH apply for the Surpass or the Aspire? I already have the Aspire and love the free nights, airfare benefits so get outsized value. We already have PP via 2-player Chase Sapphire Reserves. (I may downgrade one of these after our next rounds of travel to avoid 2 MF and to get a signing bonus from the Chase Sapphire $95 card.) We already get Diamond elite with my Aspire card.

I like the Aspire but the AFs add up. Would it be better to get a 15k free night with Surpass? We could use the grocery benefit.

We have Aspire, Surpass and business. Surpass is a great points earning card and just use the Aspire for Hilton and flight payments. I have run the numbers on annually spending between the Aspire vs the Surpass and the combo of the two/three if you have business. The combo is best overall.

So yes definitely get the Surpass and spend at least $15k for the free night cert.

Should also mention that this has been an easy week or more for Hilton hotel vacation and save HGV points for the following year, big HGV trip.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

Agreed, especially for sign-up bonuses. We now put everything (even tax payments) on Hyatt-based cards to get Hyatt points. Even though taxes have a convenience fee, we can get more value from the points than the fee. Between property and income (including estimated) tax payments, it adds up to a bit.

Everything on the card. Always.

Cheers.

One thing I like is American Express "Pay It!" program on most of their cards. Essentially, any charge over $100, you can divide into 12 payments with a small (less than APR) fee. I had a charge around $100, so I estimated 12 months comes to around 15%, but your fees could vary. It's worth the shot if you need some credit space this month, or if you're a little short on paying it off. I have a Capital One Venture card, I don't think they have a plan like that.

TS

 

[Nowaker]

@Nowaker Given your analysis should my DH apply for the Surpass or the Aspire?

If you have Aspire, the next card to get is Business or Surpass, depending on whether you shop at a 6x supermarket (if so, pick Surpass - stores like HEB, Publix, Smith's, Ralphs, Vons, Safeway qualify. NOT: Walmart, Target) or not (if so, pick Business). This however only takes cashback equivalent into account. Not the perks that you get for your AF.

A second Aspire makes sense also - while it comes at a steep AF of $450, a free night cert is worth this much anyway, and then you get another $250 airline credit (which I myself value at maybe $125) and $250 MF credit on most deeds. Note that my comparison tells you the effective cashback rate with the value of the FCN when you hit the milestone - therefore, it tells you the order of churning cards you should follow. It does not include the "static" perks like airline/MF/Uber credits, as these are not spend-dependent - therefore, it won't tell you IF you should get one card over another.

If you're able to put any number of free night cert to a good use, you should get 2x Aspire, 2x Surpass, 2x Business. In that combination, the goal is to hit milestone thresholds in the following order:
- $15K Surpass / Business
- $60K Business
- $60K Aspire
Depending on total yearly spend, it may turn out that Aspire cards will see minimal use - only Hilton for 14x, and maybe restaurants (depending on how easy it is for you to reach $15K thresholds; if you're somewhat close to reaching one, you should use Surpass/Business at restaurants, and not Aspire. Because 7x is less valuable than 6x on Surpass/Business if you end up not reaching your target by using a less effective card.)

Maybe I should create a cashback equivalent calculator, along with a tool that tells you which card to use in what order. Anyone interested? I need 5 heart emoki reactions to this comment to justify doing this.

Justified. Will do later in the week.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thank you!

 

[Nowaker]

Hey guys. I knew something wasn't right about my valuation of $0.0092 per HH point. I realized I did not account the fact that paying for Hilton.com with your HH Aspire card, you get a ton of extra points - not on CC, but also on Hilton.com.

As an experiment, rather than coming up with an equation myself, I asked ChatGPT to calculate it for me and write an equation. I had to steer it quite a lot as it didn't grasp the concept, but eventually it got it right. But it took longer than coming up with it myself. GPT-4 doesn't have a full grasp of maths. Its first answers were blatantly wrong.

Real Value of HH Point = (Cash Price / (1 + ((Base Points + Diamond Bonus Points) * (Cash Price * (1 - Tax Ratio)) + Hilton Aspire Card Points * Cash Price) / Cash Price)) / Points Spent

Where:

• Cash Price is the total cash price you would have paid for the bookings
• Base Points per Dollar Spent = 10
• Diamond Bonus Points per Dollar Spent = 10 (100% bonus on base points)
• Hilton Aspire Card Points per Dollar Spent = 14
• Tax Ratio = 0.1 (assuming 10% tax) - because base points are earned on room rate, not taxes
• Points Spent is the total Hilton Honors points you spent on the bookings

In my case:

Cash Price = $7,443.42
Points Spent = 813,000

Therefore, as per Qalc:

7443.42 / (813000 + ((7443.42 × (1 − 0.1) × 20) + (7443.42 × 14))) ≈ 0.007080950128

So the real value of HH point, when accounting for a fact that paying cash provides a very high rewards rate, is $0.00708.


Now, let's see the cashback yield for each card at each milestone spending goals ($15K cert on Surpass/Business, $60K on Business/Aspire). When accounted for that, the final cashback rates are as follows, assuming the free night certificate would cost $565.43 on average.

Surpass
Regular (3x):
5.57% when you reach the cert
2.12% when you don't reach the cert or you keep spending afterwards
Restaurants/Gas/Supermarkets (6x):
7.70%
4.25%
Hilton (12x):
11.95%
8.50%

Business
Regular (3x):
5.57% when you reach the first cert ($15K)
2.97% when you reach the second cert (another $45K)
2.12% when you don't reach the first cert, or the second cert, or you keep spending after the second cert
Restaurants/Gas/Airlines/Car rentals/Shipping/Phone (6x):
7.70%
5.36%
4.25%
Hilton (12x):
11.95%
10.13%
8.50%

Aspire
Regular (3x):
2.99% when you reach the cert ($60K)
2.12% when you don't reach the cert or you keep spending afterwards
Restaurants/Airlines/Car rentals (7x):
5.82%
4.96%
Hilton (14x):
10.77%
9.91%

Some conclusions:

• Amex Hilton Surpass / Business are probably the best cards on the market for general spending. 5.57% if you reach a cert. Nice! Competitive cards offer 5% on select one or two categories (like Chase Freedom / Discover / US Bank Cash+ / Elan / Custom Cash), and are often capped at a low threshold.
• Likewise, Surpass / Business are probably the best cards for restaurants. An astonishing 7.70% beats every card out there.
• If you can reach $15K on Surpass but can't reach $60K on Aspire, you should put your Hilton spend on Surpass for better yield (11.95% vs 9.91%). CB yield matters - not 14x vs 12x!
• Aspire is good for its benefits but its cashback yield isn't spectacular. $60K is harder to achieve than churning two Surpass cards one for each spouse, and bonus points if you can also get one Business.
• In my opinion, everybody should at the very minimum have 1 Aspire (for benefits) and 1 Surpass/Business. Then keep adding more Surpasses/Businesses if you can reach $15K goals. When you run out of any extra possible cards, top off with the final Aspire.
• Remember that spend milestones are of little value compared to signup bonuses. Spend a couple grand get like 150K HH beats everything left and right. Knowing that, you shouldn't skip the free Hilton card out there - no annual fee, and a lot of free points in SUB!

Notes:

• GPT-4 accounted for the cashback rates on CC when spending the equivalent amount, but forgot to account for base points earned on Hilton.com, so I'll redo these numbers when GPT-4 unblocks for me tomorrow The cashback rate will slightly decrease by around 5% to 10% depending on the card.
• A spreadsheet where you can plug your own values will follow some time soon.
• I didn't account for the annual fee of Business and Surpass. They cost $95 but provide nothing for that cost, which further reduces the cashback. I'll include that in the spreadsheet.
• I will not account for the annual fee on Aspire. Aspire card provides more value out of the box than what is paid for its annual fee. Airline credit, $250 on MFs, and free night cert on renewal. And because you take advantage of these immediately, no spend is needed, that should not be included in cashback yield.

 

[GT75]

@GT75 - Sorry for any confusion, I was inquiring about the $250 Amex annual resort credit which charges at Elara have been reported to qualify for, not the 14x points.

As of about two weeks now, I haven't gotten the remainder of the $250 Amex resort credit from the Ocean Oak activation fee. I was certainly expecting that. I know that I get the credit when I pay my MFs each year, so I never worry about that one. It is the airline credit that I need to work on each year.

 

[letsgobobby]

just used free night for Embassy Suites right next to Taylor Swift concert. Rack rate: $1000/nt. Nice!

 

[1Kflyerguy]

just used free night for Embassy Suites right next to Taylor Swift concert. Rack rate: $1000/nt. Nice!

Hopefully your going to the concert, and did not just pick the hotel at random...

Just saw a story on the new that economists estimate the average fan is spending about $1300, and the tour will add 1.3 Billion to the economy this year..

 

[letsgobobby]

Aspire
Regular (3x):
2.99% when you reach the cert ($60K)
2.12% when you don't reach the cert or you keep spending afterwards
Restaurants/Airlines/Car rentals (7x):
5.82%
4.96%

Good exercise, thanks. This is what I intuited, sans spreadsheet.

These are pretty comparable to CSR , which is 1.5% on regular spend and 4.5% on restaurants and travel (not just airlines/car rental) when redeemed for airfare (50% bonus on redemptions). The CSR has an additional annual fee net of the travel reimbursement offset, which decreases it's value proposition slightly, but the redemption opportunities are for airfare, which we find easier to utilize/optimize compared to Honors points (our travel is mostly to our HGVC locations, to Europe with kids, or to family, and those aren't easy to optimize Honors points or free nights - in Europe you nearly always need 2 rooms for 3+ people, not true in the US - see my ES redemption above).

Although we could reach the spend threshold for Aspire x 2, I think we'd find it hard to optimize 4 free nights per year, which would tip us to using Amex more than CSR. So for now the CSR remains our go to card.

May need to pick up a his/hers Surpass though. I could also get some cards for an LLC.

 

[HuskerATL]

just used free night for Embassy Suites right next to Taylor Swift concert. Rack rate: $1000/nt. Nice!

We went to the Taylor Swift concert here in ATL....it was really good but, boy, those girls can really scream....