Vistana Mandatory Resort Resales

[Travel4Fun00100]

Apologies if this was already discussed; I did not find a thread. Quick question if anyone knows: If I purchase a resale week at a Vistana mandatory resort (i.e. Westin Kierland, Harborside at Atlantis, etc), will I be able to elect my purchased week into Abound? I figured since I get the Staroptions with the purchase and enrollment into the SVN, this technically should be possible. Thanks!

 

[dsmrp]

Officially only mandatory owners in the VSN prior & including August 9 2022, are able to elect week into Abound without additional cost. Likely in near future Marriott will allow resale weeks into Abound for a substantial developer purchase. Some anecdotal reports say they're doing it now.

 

[trook]

Also wondering what the current status is on purchasing a resale mandatory resort, specifically Harborside and what your options are with Abound? Do I still have full access to trade with staroptions to all vistana properties (?) Just not able to trade week within Abound?

 

[rickandcindy23]

You could still use Mandatory SO's for other Westin/ Sheraton properties.

 

[dioxide45]

We really won't know how mandatory resales work with Abound until someone actually buys one and tries it out. The only place the 8/9 date was mentioned was in an email. An email that I can no longer find BTW. That date exists nowhere in any of the program legal documentation but they do mention an enrollment fee of $3000.

 

[trook]

We really won't know how mandatory resales work with Abound until someone actually buys one and tries it out. The only place the 8/9 date was mentioned was in an email. An email that I can no longer find BTW. That date exists nowhere in any of the program legal documentation but they do mention an enrollment fee of $3000.

An enrollment fee of $3k!? Do they really feel the worth of being a part of Abound is that great, or just using to discourage folks from buying resale units

 

[DanCali]

An enrollment fee of $3k!? Do they really feel the worth of being a part of Abound is that great, or just using to discourage folks from buying resale units

Discouraging resales has always been a strategy. That is why most Vistana resorts are voluntary and MVC resales are not part of Abound.

But if the $3K enrollment fee is true (it is not confirmed), it should not affect your decision to buy resale. In fact, $3K would be considered a "steal" given that in the MVC world enrolling a week requires a purchase of $25K and up and Vistana retros were $10K and up. Grant it you're "purchasing" something for that money, but that "something" has a resale value 80% lower than what you pay ($20K immediate capital loss), so yes - $3000 to enroll a week would be a great bargain.

You can think about it this way... If you buy a WKORV OV for $15K and then pay an extra $3K to enroll it in abound, you basically paid $18K for 6200 points which is less than $3/point. Your purchase still has a resale value of $15K (you lose only the $3K) and the MF/Point are about $0.50. The alternative to acquire points would be paying $5-$6 per point in the resale market for Trust points (or, about $35K for 6200 points), where those points have a $2-$3 resale value (50%-60% capital loss) value and maintenance fees of $0.70/point.

As an "enrollment fee", $3000 is indeed outrageous. But you can also rationalize it in a manner that makes it look like a bargain. It just depends on are you buying a week to use or trade in Vistana (in which case enrolling in Abound doesn't matter) or if you think of it as a way to play with points relatively often.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Discouraging resales has always been a strategy. That is why most Vistana resorts are voluntary and MVC resales are not part of Abound.

But if the $3K enrollment fee is true (it is not confirmed), it should not affect your decision to buy resale. In fact, $3K would be considered a "steal" given that in the MVC world enrolling a week requires a purchase of $25K and up and Vistana retros were $10K and up. Grant it you're "purchasing" something for that money, but that "something" has a resale value 80% lower than what you pay ($20K immediate capital loss), so yes - $3000 to enroll a week would be a great bargain.

You can think about it this way... If you buy a WKORV OV for $15K and then pay an extra $3K to enroll it in abound, you basically paid $18K for 6200 points which is less than $3/point. Your purchase still has a resale value of $15K (you lose only the $3K) and the MF/Point are about $0.50. The alternative to acquire points would be paying $5-$6 per point in the resale market for Trust points (or, about $35K for 6200 points), where those points have a $2-$3 resale value (50%-60% capital loss) value and maintenance fees of $0.70/point.

As an "enrollment fee", $3000 is indeed outrageous. But you can also rationalize it in a manner that makes it look like a bargain. It just depends on are you buying a week to use or trade in Vistana (in which case enrolling in Abound doesn't matter) or if you think of it as a way to play with points relatively often.

I've noticed resale values at WKORV/N have dipped slightly since the middle of last summer and the ABOUND enrollment 'deadline'. I hope the $3K fee is instituted and indeed as you say it would be a steal (so it probably won't be instituted) and it would probably give resale values a lift. That hope is said as someone who will be looking to sell a couple soon.

 

[DanCali]

I've noticed resale values at WKORV/N have dipped slightly since the middle of last summer and the ABOUND enrollment 'deadline'. I hope the $3K fee is instituted and indeed as you say it would be a steal (so it probably won't be instituted) and it would probably give resale values a lift. That hope is said as someone who will be looking to sell a couple soon.

IMO resale values were inflated last summer because a bunch of people with "inside information" (e.g, salespeople) were snapping up all these weeks for the low cost/point. We know for a fact that some tuggers were tipped in advance about this by salespeople (and posted about it) so perhaps some here also acted on this, although I would consider that "trading on rumors" vs. actual insiders who knew the facts about how mandatory resorts will be treated and studied the points charts in advance of their release. Any such unusual surge in demand would spike up the prices but only temporarily... I also believe that MVC was aware this was going on and instituted the August cutoff date months in advance of the actual program launch just to put a stop to it.

All this is just my opinion based on observing resale activity at various resorts - I really have nothing concrete to base it on.

 

[rthib]

In the past on Marriott side they ran specials where they waived the fee for watching an online video.
They also run other specials such as do an owners update on a stay etc…
The fee is standard, what they started charging Marriott owners a while after they introduced points.
And I don’t think it was some secret inside information from salespeople. They did the same thing when Marriott switched to points, so it was easy to guess they would do the same thing when the brought in Vistana weeks.

 

[VacationForever]

In the past on Marriott side they ran specials where they waived the fee for watching an online video.
They also run other specials such as do an owners update on a stay etc…
The fee is standard, what they started charging Marriott owners a while after they introduced points.
And I don’t think it was some secret inside information from salespeople. They did the same thing when Marriott switched to points, so it was easy to guess they would do the same thing when the brought in Vistana weeks.

Except Marriott's fee waiving only applies to deeds bought before June 2010. If you buy resale deeds after June 2010, you cannot enroll these weeks without forking out huge dollars to enroll these weeks, i.e. buy retail points or certain overseas retail weeks.

 

[rthib]

Except Marriott's fee waiving only applies to deeds bought before June 2010. If you buy resale deeds after June 2010, you cannot enroll these weeks without forking out huge dollars to enroll these weeks, i.e. buy retail points or certain overseas retail weeks.

Correct, The fee wave is the enrollment fee for eligible weeks (For Vistana, purchased before the official announcement.) To enroll non-eligible weeks you have to buy points. Just didn’t want folks with eligible weeks just assuming they need to pay the fee.

 

[dioxide45]

And I don’t think it was some secret inside information from salespeople. They did the same thing when Marriott switched to points, so it was easy to guess they would do the same thing when the brought in Vistana weeks.

The difference between Vistana and Marriott is that Marriott set the date as the same date they launched their program. With Vistana, the date was announced and I beleive backdated. The date was also much more confusing. We didn't know if it was based on transfer date, ROFR date, recording date or what. The date was also annoucned and set several months before they rolled out the program. That isn't how Marriott did it. It seems they did this to stave off people with reliable inofmration from transferring VOIs to get them into Abound.

Correct, The fee wave is the enrollment fee for eligible weeks (For Vistana, purchased before the official announcement.) To enroll non-eligible weeks you have to buy points. Just didn’t want folks with eligible weeks just assuming they need to pay the fee.

The fee waiver is really only for Marriott resale weeks purchased prior to June, 2010. All Vistana VOIs in VSN are eligible with the exception of resale mandatory weeks purchased after 8/9.

 

[jw0]

Also wondering what the current status is on purchasing a resale mandatory resort, specifically Harborside and what your options are with Abound? Do I still have full access to trade with staroptions to all vistana properties (?) Just not able to trade week within Abound?

Regarding this question (I am a resale Harborside owner): yes, when you buy resale, you still have access to SVN and staroptions and can trade with all vistana properties. It's a bit of a "lopsided" trade - your maintenance fees are among the highest in the system - but it is convenient.

The downside is, it is "Mandatory" for you to pay the yearly SVN dues for this privilege. You can't opt out.

One should also mention: currently, Harborside is NOT in abound. They do say they anticipate it joining in the near future, but I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Tyronie]

Regarding this question (I am a resale Harborside owner): yes, when you buy resale, you still have access to SVN and staroptions and can trade with all vistana properties. It's a bit of a "lopsided" trade - your maintenance fees are among the highest in the system - but it is convenient.

The downside is, it is "Mandatory" for you to pay the yearly SVN dues for this privilege. You can't opt out.

One should also mention: currently, Harborside is NOT in abound. They do say they anticipate it joining in the near future, but I haven't seen it yet.

But at HRA it seems we paid the abound fees anyway? Either way I’ve never been to Harborside despite owning it, and may never having thus far using it every year to add to our WKORV trip. Probably the only other way to get your moneys worth of their MF.

 

[trook]

But at HRA it seems we paid the abound fees anyway? Either way I’ve never been to Harborside despite owning it, and may never having thus far using it every year to add to our WKORV trip. Probably the only other way to get your moneys worth of their MF.

I’m confused by this. HRA owners are expected to pay Abound fees, are not yet part of Abound and cannot trade within the system? This doesn’t seem to be correct or certainly doesn’t make sense if it is.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I’m confused by this. HRA owners are expected to pay Abound fees, are not yet part of Abound and cannot trade within the system? This doesn’t seem to be correct or certainly doesn’t make sense if it is.

From what I read - they are paying a VSN fee, but it is labeled Club Dues and they are assuming it is for Abound, but it is really for VSN.

It would be useful if people actually stated what their ‘club’ fee is and we could better opine as the VSN fee is different than the Abound fee, and then could definitively determine. But, for some reason, people hold back critical info to correctly answer. This problem is rampant on FB groups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dioxide45]

I’m confused by this. HRA owners are expected to pay Abound fees, are not yet part of Abound and cannot trade within the system? This doesn’t seem to be correct or certainly doesn’t make sense if it is.

I do beleive they are getting some of the Abound benefits (discounted cash stays) even though they can't elect Club Points for their HRA VOI.

 

[dioxide45]

From what I read - they are paying a VSN fee, but it is labeled Club Dues and they are assuming it is for Abound, but it is really for VSN.

It would be useful if people actually stated what their ‘club’ fee is and we could better opine as the VSN fee is different than the Abound fee, and then could definitively determine. But, for some reason, people hold back critical info to correctly answer. This problem is rampant on FB groups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the issue with Facebook and how it is mostly used on mobile causes a lot of this. People want to type as little as possible to ask their questions...

 

[DavidnRobin]

I think the issue with Facebook and how it is mostly used on mobile causes a lot of this. People want to type as little as possible to ask their questions...

Even here.

I have yet seen what the Club Fee amount HRA Owners are actually paying. This way it could be compared between VSN and Abound fees. It’s only a few numbers plus a $ sign.

I’d be pissed as an Owner if paying Abound fee without the main benefit (conversion to Abound).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grrrah]

Even here.

I have yet seen what the Club Fee amount HRA Owners are actually paying. This way it could be compared between VSN and Abound fees. It’s only a few numbers plus a $ sign.

I’d be pissed as an Owner if paying Abound fee without the main benefit (conversion to Abound).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd be upset, but then I'd quickly realize that the Abound fee was less than what I had been paying (2 EOY VOI + banking + 2 extra housekeeping). But agree not having access would be upsetting.

 

[dioxide45]

Even here.

I have yet seen what the Club Fee amount HRA Owners are actually paying. This way it could be compared between VSN and Abound fees. It’s only a few numbers plus a $ sign.

I’d be pissed as an Owner if paying Abound fee without the main benefit (conversion to Abound).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see conversion to Club Points as the main benefit. It may be for some, but not others. The consolidated fee structure is a big one, no banknig fees, loss of HK fees on SO reservations. While it isn't the best situation, I suspect MVC expects HRA to get approval to be in the program rather soon.

 

[Red elephant]

I don't see conversion to Club Points as the main benefit. It may be for some, but not others. The consolidated fee structure is a big one, no banknig fees, loss of HK fees on SO reservations. While it isn't the best situation, I suspect MVC expects HRA to get approval to be in the program rather soon.

As a 5 star Elite those fees did not apply so the main benefit would be access to Abound.

 

[DanCali]

As a 5 star Elite those fees did not apply so the main benefit would be access to Abound.

I expect the allocation of Abound points to be quite lackluster for most weeks compared to the week rental value (as well as maintenance fees) so I'm not sure how much of a "benefit" is lost.

 

[Tyronie]

From what I read - they are paying a VSN fee, but it is labeled Club Dues and they are assuming it is for Abound, but it is really for VSN.

It would be useful if people actually stated what their ‘club’ fee is and we could better opine as the VSN fee is different than the Abound fee, and then could definitively determine. But, for some reason, people hold back critical info to correctly answer. This problem is rampant on FB groups.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s an excellent point which made me find my statement - it’s listed as “Owners Dues” this year and only $230. I think confusion was added when MVC continued to state that HRA owners paying their club dues would be entitled to things like free point banking for SO. The whole thing couldn’t be a bigger cluster, plus I really have no interest in ever converting this expensive MF to abound club points. Just trying to figure out what I’m paying for, but that couldn’t be more confusing.