VSN Features/Benefits Reduction and Elimination Post Abound Launch [Call to Action]

[CPNY]

It was certainly in my documentation in a more recent purchase than yours.

View attachment 63371

But so was this - so they can indeed take it away...

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Like you said - it doesn't mean we have to like it. But they can't say that it wasn't in the docs. It's very explicit: "two succeeding use years".

Typical Marriott….. say one thing then do something else to their benefit. I will be dedicating one day per trip to sit outside of the sales office to do post sales presentations education sessions in the parking lot.

 

[robertk2012]

Maybe we should rent space and do resales next to the snowballs at WKORV

Typical Marriott….. say one thing then do something else to their benefit. I will be dedicating one day per trip to sit outside of the sales office to do post sales presentations education sessions in the parking lot.

 

[pchung6]

Typical Marriott….. say one thing then do something else to their benefit. I will be dedicating one day per trip to sit outside of the sales office to do post sales presentations education sessions in the parking lot.

I will be attending sales presentation tomorrow at WKORVN. I will definitely voice my concern and use this as excuse to get out in 30 minutes. This time I won’t feel bad taking 30000 free points. I just took 30k last month at Palm Springs.

 

[dioxide45]

There could be some SEC trouble there since this was said on an investor call. It’ll be interesting to see if any action is taken.

I am not sure that it materially impacts earnings though. I don't know the SEC rules, but I am not so sure this would cause a violation and at worst they would probably just need to redisclose.

 

[cubigbird]

I am not sure that it materially impacts earnings though. I don't know the SEC rules, but I am not so sure this would cause a violation and at worst they would probably just need to redisclose.

A “just kidding” statement.

 

[DanCali]

I am not sure that it materially impacts earnings though. I don't know the SEC rules, but I am not so sure this would cause a violation and at worst they would probably just need to redisclose.

What also doesn't materially impact earnings or disrupt operations much is giving a handful of loyal owners an extra 2 hours in the unit on the first and/or last day of their vacation...

They may have too many Chairman to expand this benefit systemwide (presumably because of the enrolled pre-2010 Legacy week owners), but I doubt the number of 5-Star owners is as high percentagewise and they could have easily kept that benefit for Staroptions reservations within Vistana. It's almost like they don't want an MVC Chairman guest to overhear that request in the lobby and get all riled up as to why they can't get the same benefit too. Perhaps that makes more sense to them in the grand picture, but they will be alienating some people who spend a lot of money in the past... And that still doesn't excuse cutting the banking period to one year - VSN is a completely different exchange that Abound-only members can't access anyway. Staroptions are a different animal, used only at a handful or resorts, only at 8 months out and the banking rules and deadlines don't have to be the same.

 

[CPNY]

I have EOY so I am double F because I will never be able to double my points usage for a year. I was planning to splurge on 3 bedroom LO one of these years…

Yup, Marriott really screwed vistana owners with the 1 year banking. We were right when we said Marriott would do what they can to decimate the VSN.

 

[cubigbird]

Yup, Marriott really screwed vistana owners with the 1 year banking. We were right when we said Marriott would do what they can to decimate the VSN.

@CPNY Need to get the masses to start communicating with Ray Filippone
Director Customer Advocacy
CUSTOMER ADVOCACY

800-860-9384
ray.filippone@mvwc.com

Might want to share contact info on other social media outlets. Only way anything could change is for voices to be heard.

 

[DanCali]

Yup, Marriott really screwed vistana owners with the 1 year banking. We were right when we said Marriott would do what they can to decimate the VSN.

I really can't pinpoint the reason for the 1-year banking other than aligning VSN and Abound deadlines. But it's neither here nor there... why does that even matter? They own II too and didn't make any alignments there...

With the Elite program, they probably took the view that VSN Elite was providing an incentive to sell product. If they are not selling Vistana product anymore, then VSN Elite is simply dismantled. Those who paid top dollar for some of those lost benefits will just have to live with it. Now they will upsell Abound points to get people to higher Abound Elite levels.

Per the Q&A:

I was awarded Elite Level Qualification Credits (ELQC) when I purchased my ownership through Sheraton Vacation Club or Westin Vacation Club. What will happen with the ELQC program?

• The ELQC program has been discontinued. However, ELQCs previously given to Owners have been included in the calculation of VSN 3-, 4-, and 5-Star Elite levels used to determine new Owner benefit levels to the extent applicable.

 

[CPNY]

@CPNY Need to get the masses to start communicating with Ray Filippone
Director Customer Advocacy
CUSTOMER ADVOCACY

800-860-9384
ray.filippone@mvwc.com

Might want to share contact info on other social media outlets. Only way anything could change is for voices to be heard.

Done

 

[TravelTime]

Then they lied when they said “you can use your ownership the same way you do today if you choose not to participate”. Also, throwing out a retro date for resales is nefarious in nature.

Technically we can use our ownership the same way as before. From what I gather, the main negative change is the banking deadline. But as others have stated, there was no banking allowed at all in the past. I think the benefit to free enrollment of mandatory resales and getting higher status across all your ownership holdings in the new Abound program more than outweighs a change in banking. There are always people who are not going to be happy with any change. The old saying “buy where you want to stay” is a good one to remember right now.

 

[dioxide45]

Technically we can use our ownership the same way as before. From what I gather, the main negative change is the banking deadline. But as others have stated, there was no banking allowed at all in the past. I think the benefit to free enrollment of mandatory resales and getting higher status across all your ownership holdings more than outweighs a changing in banking.

We honestly don't bank that much anymore. We did a few times in the past and it was nice to have a two year window to use them. Now we end up using most of our StarOptions every year and only a few go to waste as it didn't make sense to bank only a small handful of Options. Of course, in the future, it might make sense to bank them with the $0 banking fee. So you lose some benefits and gain some others.

 

[CPNY]

We honestly don't bank that much anymore. We did a few times in the past and it was nice to have a two year window to use them. Now we end up using most of our StarOptions every year and only a few go to waste as it didn't make sense to bank only a small handful of Options. Of course, in the future, it might make sense to bank them with the $0 banking fee. So you lose some benefits and gain some others.

Can you bank club points? If so, for how many years? 1, 1.5, and 2 years based on ownership level?

 

[dioxide45]

Can you bank club points? If so, for how many years? 1, 1.5, and 2 years based on ownership level?

Same as the new VSN rules and as you stated.

 

[timsi]

Technically a different "Marriott".

Same culture though?

 

[echino]

I think the benefit to free enrollment of mandatory resales and getting higher status across all your ownership holdings in the new Abound program more than outweighs a change in banking.

Where does it say free? I read that mandatory resales will be allowed into Abound, but nowhere it says it will be free.

 

[dioxide45]

Where does it say free? I read that mandatory resales will be allowed into Abound, but nowhere it says it will be free.

This is what it says;

Eligible VOIs:

• Are those that are enrolled in VSN and were purchased from the Developer or through an Authorized resale agent.
• VOIs that were enrolled in VSN prior to August 9, 2022, that were purchased through an unauthorized resale agent or HOA resale offer will be able to elect to receive Club Points and apply toward Owner Benefit Level

I would suspect if there was a fee, they would have called that out. But if the fee could apply based on the wording, it could also mean a fee applies to the first bullet point too.

 

[TravelTime]

Where does it say free? I read that mandatory resales will be allowed into Abound, but nowhere it says it will be free.

The wording is why my husband and I are still skeptical that it might be free. However that seems to be the belief here on Tug.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

It was certainly in my documentation in a more recent purchase than yours.

View attachment 63371

But so was this - so they can indeed take it away...

View attachment 63372

Like you said - it doesn't mean we have to like it. But they can't say that it wasn't in the docs. It's very explicit: "two succeeding use years". And as it says on row #1, it applies to all network members - doesn't matter when you bought in.

Thanks for that.

With regards note (j) I didn't hear many complaints about the 'revise the Network Rules' clause being put into effect in 2020 when banking options were expanded during Covid and indeed many (including myself) took advantage of it to make reservations with expiring options and then cancel those reservations to extend the options 'life'.

 

[sail27bill]

I did not really take advantage of the Staroption banking benefits, but other family members used it incessantly to plan big trips. I wonder if they reduced the benefit because you could always deposit it in II and get two years in which to use it. Especially now that exchanges (non-point VOIs) are free. Or it could be that Marriott's IT department couldn't handle too many people using this function to extend two years out. Either way, now you really have to be on top of your vacations or you will lose your benefits.

 

[Eric B]

IMHO it's better to borrow than bank anyway - in the ala carte costing for banking borrowing is less expensive because the only cost is the time value of the MFs you have to prepay. With the bundling of the costs in the Club Dues, banking is more appealing to me even with the shorter deadlines because there isn't a differential cost and I can bank a small amount to avoid losing them when it wouldn't have been worth it for the fee.

 

[remowidget]

This is what it says;

Eligible VOIs:

• Are those that are enrolled in VSN and were purchased from the Developer or through an Authorized resale agent.
• VOIs that were enrolled in VSN prior to August 9, 2022, that were purchased through an unauthorized resale agent or HOA resale offer will be able to elect to receive Club Points and apply toward Owner Benefit Level

I would suspect if there was a fee, they would have called that out. But if the fee could apply based on the wording, it could also mean a fee applies to the first bullet point too.

There is no "will be able" in the first one.

 

[dioxide45]

There is no "will be able" in the first one.

Not sure that really tells us anything different. If there were a fee or some other qualification requirements, I would expect a footnote or small print at a minimum.

 

[CPNY]

I would still like to know if “enrolled resale” really means “retro resale”.

 

[dioxide45]

I would still like to know if “enrolled resale” really means “retro resale”.

Since "enrolled" isn't capitalized, I doubt it is defined anywhere. Mandatory weeks are certainly in VSN, they just don't qualify for certain special benefits (like Bonvoy conversion, resort credit, etc).