NEW Info on Marriott/Westin/Sheraton Consolidated Product

[Gemini Chica]

As MVC enrolled owners, what will the reality be of this merger, does it mean when we book with our DP we will just have more choice including Westin, Sheraton + Vistana or how till it work?

 

[dioxide45]

That is the $1,000,000 question.

 

[bogey21]

One thing I can almost guarantee is that there will be an effort to get you to separate you from more of your money...

George

 

[bazzap]

That is the $1,000,000 question.

Hopefully that won’t be the internal trading fee - haha

 

[Dean]

As MVC enrolled owners, what will the reality be of this merger, does it mean when we book with our DP we will just have more choice including Westin, Sheraton + Vistana or how till it work?

As noted, no one knows. I'm hearing rumors that there might be some form of introduction the second quarter of next year but we'll see. There are lots of directions they could go but my guess is they'll run each system independently with a crossover much like the enrolled and trust owners do now. I also suspect the higher MVC tiers will be included automatically and that the hook will be for lower tier and non MVC members to pay to qualify. I wouldn't be surprised if this included an increase in the requirements for various levels and possibly even for an additional higher level within MVC.

 

[JIMinNC]

When they first announced at their Fall 2019 Investor Day presentation that there would be some sort of crossover system, they described it as two phases:

Phase 1 - a common points currency
Phase 2 - a common points product

My interpretation of that was that Phase 1 would probably be the crossover concept @Dean mentioned just above where they would still sell both Destination Points and StarOptions, but would have some mechanism/common currency for each to be used to book all MVC, Westin, and Sheraton properties. Then, it would seem that Phase 2 would see them transition to selling only one points product across all three brands.

At that Fall 2019 investor presentation, they said the timing of Phase 1 would be second half of 2020 and Phase 2 was to be determined. Clearly, COVID has delayed their plans, perhaps significantly. We heard the same "second quarter 2021" rumor, that Dean mentioned, last month in a sales presentation at Crystal Shores. So, we'll see what happens.

 

[JIMinNC]

After I posted the info just above, I went to the Marriott Vacations Worldwide investors web page and found a presentation the CFO, John Geller, did on December 2 at the Barclays Bank "Eat Sleep Play 2020" virtual conference. In that presentation, he specifically references a common points product that they plan to be selling at all Marriott/Westin/Sheraton sales centers in 2022. He said they were working on the technology now.

Below is a link to the recording, but below that, I've quoted and summarized some of the key points that would be of interest to TUGgers:

Marriott Vacations Worldwide at Barclays Eat Sleep Play 2020

Here is the most important thing said by John Geller about the upcoming combined product form:

"The other thing which we haven't done yet - and the goal is still to get to this in 2022 - we still sell the same products that were sold prior to the acquisition. We've got the Marriott Vacation Club, we've got the Westin Flex product, we've got the Sheraton product. So, the idea is to have a consolidated product for all of the Marriott brands - Hyatt will always be a separate platform, a separate licensor - but you get to one product form that you're selling to all of your folks at the sales table, as well as the benefit of bringing all of these resorts together under one cohesive product form, that's the opportunity. There are a lot of technology and things that we are going through right now to get to that point, but that's still a broader opportunity, that when you sit down today across the table from somebody if you are at a Marriott Sales Center, we're just pitching you the Marriott resorts - which is still a great portfolio of resorts - but in the future we'll be able to include the Westin and the Sheraton because they will be a part of that, call it a consolidated product form, in a way that will allow us to sell it a little differently, which will increase the value proposition."

Previously, in other investor presentations, they had spoken of two phases with Phase 1 being a "common points currency" and Phase 2 being "a common points product to sell". It sounds like above he may be referring to the Phase 2, since he mentions "one product form that you're selling to all of your folks at the sales table". He clearly says they hope to get to that point in 2022, but is not clear if they still have a two-phase approach. If it is indeed still two phases, then it is conceivable that they could perhaps introduce a common currency sometime in 2021 (second quarter has been rumored/reported from sale presentations), with the full consolidated product rolled out sometime in 2022. So, it's still not 100% clear what the timeline is, but this does offer a few nuggets.

There were also a few of other things that I learned from the presentation and will just summarize below:

• Geller said they were very excited about the expansion opportunities presented by the Hyatt product. It is a high-end product with a smaller, more limited network, so there is great opportunity to use MVW's resources to expand that brand into new markets where they are not currently. He implied they were ready to put major resources into Hyatt when COVID hit, so once things normalize in 2021 or 2022, Hyatt may see a major expansion. But he made clear that those locations would never be combined into the Marriott/Westin/Sheraton consolidated product.
• They have sold their development parcel in Cancun since, once the common product is in place, all MVC owners will have access to the Westin properties in Mexico, making that property expendable.
• They have also completed the sale of excess parcels in Orlando.
• They have another $90 - $140 million of property to be disposed of. Some of this property is operating hotels that came with the ILG acquisition. He said they may convert some of that to timeshare, but that they do not want to be a long term owner of operating hotels. They will find a third party that wants to own the hotels and sell to them. He said they were in "first rate locations" and specifically mentioned Kauai and Puerto Vallarta.

 

[JIMinNC]

[deleted due to redundancy with post #7]

 

[Gemini Chica]

Thank you!

 

[Dean]

After I posted the info just above, I went to the Marriott Vacations Worldwide investors web page and found a presentation the CFO, John Geller, did at a Barclays Bank conference a couple of weeks ago. In that presentation, he specifically references a common points product that they plan to be selling at all Marriott/Westin/Sheraton sales centers in 2022. He said they were working on the technology now.

I've posted the details in a new thread, since this is significant new information that has not before been posted here to my knowledge. Below is a link to that new thread:

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/new-info-on-marriott-westin-sheraton-consolidate-product.312412/

I'll leave it up to the moderators whether they want to recombine that new info back into this thread, but I felt it was a significant enough bit of new intel that it was worthy of its own thread.

I still suspect any common currency will be tied to the current MVC system in large part.

 

[Gemini Chica]

@Dean Meaning when we log into MVC we just see more resorts but book the same way?

 

[Dean]

@Dean Meaning when we log into MVC we just see more resorts but book the same way?

My statement was pretty broad. My best guess is there will be a separate system that the higher levels of MVC will be able to book into directly that works much like the current enrolled system does now. Not that much different than access to the Ritz for example. Whether one will have to upgrade to a higher level, pay an additional fee to participate or some other options no one knows that is talking.

 

[dioxide45]

My statement was pretty broad. My best guess is there will be a separate system that the higher levels of MVC will be able to book into directly that works much like the current enrolled system does now. Not that much different than access to the Ritz for example. Whether one will have to upgrade to a higher level, pay an additional fee to participate or some other options no one knows that is talking.

How does this however play into a combined points product to sell? If they somehow merge all the programs into a single trust, then they couldn't block out certain owners that own in that trust? Perhaps if they have a new exchange company they can limit who can or can't cross between brands, but a single product sounds like a new trust, doesn't it?

 

[SueDonJ]

... I'll leave it up to the moderators whether they want to recombine that new info back into this thread, but I felt it was a significant enough bit of new intel that it was worthy of its own thread.

I like the idea of a new thread rather than merging with any of the other speculation threads, so have merged the two threads opened today and we'll go from here. I kept your thread title because it makes the topic clear.

 

[Dean]

How does this however play into a combined points product to sell? If they somehow merge all the programs into a single trust, then they couldn't block out certain owners that own in that trust? Perhaps if they have a new exchange company they can limit who can or can't cross between brands, but a single product sounds like a new trust, doesn't it?

My prediction is a new currency that is seamless for those that qualify that works between the systems much like the DC system does now. I further predict that the 2 highest levels in MVC will be grandfathered and have direct access without further investment. I suspect they will either create an additional level within MVC or increase the requirements. They might end up with a new trust that is combined with the current trust or a separate trust which could work as I described in principle. If they combine as a single trust they'll have to either adjust the qualifications under the current system or give those who are in the trust and/or DC system complete access. They'll want to monetize the majority of the current owners so I don't see them giving the entire DC system complete access. We'll see, it's all just speculation at this point.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I predict that those of us who aren't in either "system" and just own weeks will still be left out in the cold. That is a pretty good prediction, don't you think? I am not in either point system. I have nothing to lose--or gain, as the case may be.

 

[Dean]

I predict that those of us who aren't in either "system" and just own weeks will still be left out in the cold. That is a pretty good prediction, don't you think? I am not in either point system. I have nothing to lose--or gain, as the case may be.

As it is now. At least you realize you're not losing even if others might gain. I predict there will be posts from others who see others' potential gain as their loss and are unhappy just as we saw with the DC system (and still do).

 

[JIMinNC]

I like the idea of a new thread rather than merging with any of the other speculation threads, so have merged the two threads opened today and we'll go from here. I kept your thread title because it makes the topic clear.

Since you combined the two threads, I edited my posts #7 and #8 to eliminate the redundancy and avoid confusion.

 

[bobpark56]

We own with both MVCI and Vistana. We have yet to see anything from the merger that benefits Vistana owners.

 

[dioxide45]

We own with both MVCI and Vistana. We have yet to see anything from the merger that benefits Vistana owners.

You can trade in to Marriott properties through Interval International for the reduced exchange fee of $154.

 

[Dean]

We own with both MVCI and Vistana. We have yet to see anything from the merger that benefits Vistana owners.

As noted, cheaper exchanges "internally" and preference for exchanges. And the reverse is true for MVC owners as well. Personally I don't feel the Vistana product offers much benefit to MVC owners other than additional volume and the same could be said in reverse. As for a combined program, we don't have any real information to make judgements on. Personally I feel that the higher level MVC owners who are qualified will come out ahead compared to the masses but we'll see.

 

[dioxide45]

As noted, cheaper exchanges "internally" and preference for exchanges. And the reverse is true for MVC owners as well. Personally I don't feel the Vistana product offers much benefit to MVC owners other than additional volume and the same could be said in reverse. As for a combined program, we don't have any real information to make judgements on. Personally I feel that the higher level MVC owners who are qualified will come out ahead compared to the masses but we'll see.

Isn't it true in many businesses though that the best 20% off your customers usually account for most of your revenue? Wouldn't the same be true with Marriott Vacation Club? Offering up "free" access to those top 20% and charging the rest to get it would seem to be counter intuitive. Those top 20% are more likely to spend more money, aren't they? Where those middle of the pack people like me are less likely to care all that much to fork out tens of thousands of dollars for a buyin.

 

[Dean]

Isn't it true in many businesses though that the best 20% off your customers usually account for most of your revenue? Wouldn't the same be true with Marriott Vacation Club? Offering up "free" access to those top 20% and charging the rest to get it would seem to be counter intuitive. Those top 20% are more likely to spend more money, aren't they? Where those middle of the pack people like me are less likely to care all that much to fork out tens of thousands of dollars for a buyin.

I don't think that applies well in this situation. In my mind we're talking about Presidential and Chairman's Club with MVC or possibly only Chairman's club to have an inside track. And it might be that Presidential goes to 15K and Chairman's Club to 20K or even 25K or possibly a new level at 25K. Then the angle is to sell everyone else on moving up for access. I hear what you're saying but the volume is elsewhere and if you make it a challenge to get the top levels to buy in the program is likely doomed from the start because it's almost impossible for everyone else to see themselves qualifying. But I could see a guy in for everyone that was relatively minimal for those levels and more for the rest. Certainly the devil's in the details. Anyway that's my expectation at this point, might be totally off, we'll see eventually.

 

[Steve A]

Using II, I traded at no cost into the Sheraton TS at Steamboat Springs for next August with a Marriott week. I‘m in the MVC. Is that unusual or is it standard?

 

[dioxide45]

Using II, I traded at no cost into the Sheraton TS at Steamboat Springs for next August with a Marriott week. I‘m in the MVC. Is that unusual or is it standard?

That is the new standard for enrolled Marriott weeks. Since enrolled weeks have no exchange fee, you also now don't pay an exchange fee when trading into Vistana properties.