• A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
  • The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
  • The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!

Getting Screwed by Hawaiian Airlines, 101

Significant change OR canceled. Fine... significant change is 6 hrs or more. But that's the second clause. The first clause is "canceled."
No I read it. But canceled doesn’t mean “flight number changed,” nor does it mean “routing changed.” At least, that’s never been my reading of the CoC. I hope I am wrong and you get your money back, I really do. But my prior experience with a bunch of airline changes over the years suggests that if the CoC was written the way it is worded now, they would be making an exception.

You might look to see if that six hour wording is a recent change. If it was different when you bought your ticket, the other interval is the one you could argue for. Check FlyerTalk maybe?

United thought 24 hours was "reasonable" but got overruled by DOT.
...because its Contract of Carriage specifies a shorter period as “significant.” Right now it too is six hours; it used to be shorter. https://thepointsguy.com/guide/change-cancel-united-airlines-flight/
 
Last edited:
But canceled doesn’t mean “flight number changed,” nor does it mean “routing changed.”
Sorry, but that doesn't pass the smell test. When a flight that goes from A to B is replaced with a different flight that goes from A to C, then you change planes and fly from C to B, your A to B flight was canceled. "Flight" is not a reference to start and end points, it is a reference to the path and means taken. Your off-the-cuff "definition would seem to imply that it is not a "flight change" so long as they get you from A to B, no matter what that involves.
 
I hope I am wrong and you get your money back, I really do.
For me it is not about the money. The money is not going to change my life at all. It is about exposing the principle, shining light on unfair business practices so people understand what they are facing when they CHOOSE the airline to take. We have choices, and we may choose NOT to fly Hawaiian Airlines if the truth is known. They may squeak a few hundred undeserved dollars out of me, but if I lead to 500 people choosing not to fly Hawaiian Air, and/or lead to a DOT enforcement action, I'm okay with that.
 
Sorry, but that doesn't pass the smell test. When a flight that goes from A to B is replaced with a different flight that goes from A to C, then you change planes and fly from C to B, your A to B flight was canceled. "Flight" is not a reference to start and end points, it is a reference to the path and means taken. Your off-the-cuff "definition would seem to imply that it is not a "flight change" so long as they get you from A to B, no matter what that involves.

I agree with you. You bought a ticket and paid a certain price(which may have been greater than other flights) to fly from a specific place, taking off at a certain time, and landing at a specifc place, at a specific time. Any significant deviation from that is a break in what you paid for. A hour or so deviation is reasonable. Six hours is too much.

I recall flying from NY to Tucson in the 1980's for a job interview on American Airlines. The flight was going through Chicago which I didn't realize at the time was the worst place to go through. The plane left at about 4PM and bad weather caused the plane not to be able to land so we circled and circled until the pilot made the decision to go to a safe landing airport in Michigan to refuel. Well by the time we got to land in Chicago I missed the connecting flight to Tucson. I finally got to Tucson about 5:30 AM in the morning the next day. I had a 7:00 AM breakfast appointment to start the interview day so instead of getting a good night sleep all I did was take a shower and change my clothes to get prepared for the interview. Well when I checked in for my return flight a few days later I mentioned my horrible flight experiencce to the American Airlines Associate at the desk. She upgraded my seat to first class complimentary. That was good customer service and Hawaiian Airlines needs to learn something about it. During these flight cancellations we are not expecting Hawaiian Airlines to give us something that we didn't pay for. We expect them to give us what we paid for nothing more, nothing less.
 
I am done with Hawaiian. I sold my points and canceled my credit card. I was supposed to fly to Vegas on May 4th and canceled my trip a few weeks ago. The flight had already been canceled, but that didn’t seem to matter. I didn’t get my money back and was told that I would be given a credit and it would cost $250 per trip per person to use that credit. So $500 RT to fly to Vegas or LA per person and that is about what they normally charge anyway. Additionally, the $89 extra comfort seats and any tax would not be available. So even if I used the credit, that was $400 I will never get back. Other airlines don’t charge as much and have better service. I have a lot of friends at Hawaiian and wish them well. The company will be fine. But they will have to be a lot cheaper than other airlines before I fly them again.

I have an upcoming inter-island with them in late June, waiting to see if they cancel. I had another miles flight that was cancelled. They say it takes 2 to 4 weeks to get miles redeposited and 1 to 2 billing cycles for tax and seat upgrade to be refunded. I'm not sure if HA is going to survive this, without being bought out or bankruptcy and less routes. I had to cancel flights with AA and SWA and had no issues.
 
Thanks. That's a good reference. I DID emphasize that turning a non-stop into a one-stop with change of plan is not an acceptable accommodation to me, even if it can all be done without delaying me more than six hours (who things a 5-hour change is reasonable?). No luck. In their view, they could route me through Venus as long as the delay is not more than six hours. But, yes, I'm going to take that DOT language and try again.

I would definitely file complaint with DOT. I'm far from an expert on this but if the flight is cancelled and new flight is different flight # it qualifies as cancelled. Below is from DOT site
Am I Entitled to a Refund?
In the following situations, passengers are entitled to a refund of the ticket price and/or associated fees.

  • Cancelled FlightA passenger is entitled to a refund if the airline cancelled a flight, regardless of the reason, and the passenger chooses not to travel.
  • Schedule Change/Significant Delay - A passenger is entitled to a refund if the airline made a significant schedule change and/or significantly delays a flight and the passenger chooses not to travel.
    • DOT has not specifically defined what constitutes a “significant delay.” Whether you are entitled to a refund depends on many factors – including the length of the delay, the length of the flight, and your particular circumstances. DOT determines whether you are entitled to a refund following a significant delay on a case-by-case basis.
 
DOT has not specifically defined what constitutes a “significant delay.” Whether you are entitled to a refund depends on many factors – including the length of the delay, the length of the flight, and your particular circumstances. DOT determines whether you are entitled to a refund following a significant delay on a case-by-case basis.
The problem is that the individual airlines define a significant delay and change that definition at will.
 
Fiji Air canceled my flight to Fiji in May. They are not offering a refund. They are giving me a credit to travel through December 2021. Is this a reasonable accommodation or should I be insisting on a refund?
 
I would definitely file complaint with DOT. I'm far from an expert on this but if the flight is cancelled and new flight is different flight # it qualifies as cancelled. Below is from DOT site
Am I Entitled to a Refund?
In the following situations, passengers are entitled to a refund of the ticket price and/or associated fees.

  • Cancelled FlightA passenger is entitled to a refund if the airline cancelled a flight, regardless of the reason, and the passenger chooses not to travel.

This. The flight number was changed because the flight was cancelled. Otherwise there is no such thing as a cancellation. Airlines are trying to pull the wool over consumers' eyes by calling such routing changes "modifications." Southwest will automatically rebook as a "modification" but when you call they will provide the refund.

I think OP has a case and is entitled to a full refund.
 
Fiji Air canceled my flight to Fiji in May. They are not offering a refund. They are giving me a credit to travel through December 2021. Is this a reasonable accommodation or should I be insisting on a refund?

Take the refund. No matter your plans you are entitled to a refund per DOT. The longer you wait to request the refund, the harder it will be because the companies may run out of money and are trying to preserve cash.
 
Take the refund. No matter your plans you are entitled to a refund per DOT. The longer you wait to request the refund, the harder it will be because the companies may run out of money and are trying to preserve cash.

I asked for a refund and Fiji Air refused. I just googled them and they are not offering refunds. They are probably not covered by DOT because they are not a US airline.
 
I asked for a refund and Fiji Air refused. I just googled them and they are not offering refunds. They are probably not covered by DOT because they are not a US airline.
If they are flying your flight out of the United States, then the same policy should apply. I would dispute the credit card charge.
 
+1 Start with HUCA and notify them on DOT rules, then DOT filing then dispute the CC as order of priority. You may never see that money again if you don't pursue these actions.
 
Last edited:
+1 Start with HUCA and notify them on DOT rules, then DOT filing then dispute the CC as order of priority. You may never see that money again if you don't pursue these actions.
I tried again. Same result. I quoted and cited the DOT rules, the Enforcement Notice, and the Federal Regulations. No luck. I recorded the entire transaction and have submitted it to the DOT with a formal complaint. CC is next up.
 
I tried again. Same result. I quoted and cited the DOT rules, the Enforcement Notice, and the Federal Regulations. No luck. I recorded the entire transaction and have submitted it to the DOT with a formal complaint. CC is next up.
Keep us posted. This is just so wrong on the part of Hawaiian.
 
Keep us posted. This is just so wrong on the part of Hawaiian.
To their credit, they are showing impressive and consistent determination to do the wrong thing.
 
To their credit, they are showing impressive and consistent determination to do the wrong thing.
I'm not sure how far up the food chain you've gone with Hawaiian, but besides forwarding your info to DOT you might want to go higher up with Hawaiian as well. I'm what dh calls a "letter writer". This was mostly back in the day when the only way you could resolve issues was on the phone or by mail. When I'd write the letters I'd always include a copy to the president or CEO, customer service and the BBB. Pretty much in all cases I was successful in getting things resolved the way I wanted. I learned to write calmly, state the problem and then state what I wanted.
 
I'm not sure how far up the food chain you've gone with Hawaiian, but besides forwarding your info to DOT you might want to go higher up with Hawaiian as well. I'm what dh calls a "letter writer". This was mostly back in the day when the only way you could resolve issues was on the phone or by mail. When I'd write the letters I'd always include a copy to the president or CEO, customer service and the BBB. Pretty much in all cases I was successful in getting things resolved the way I wanted. I learned to write calmly, state the problem and then state what I wanted.
Today I think you just Twitter it. I'm not a Twitter user, but I posted my complaint/rant on Facebook and my daughter hashtagged it. Not sure if that does it or not.
 
Today I think you just Twitter it. I'm not a Twitter user, but I posted my complaint/rant on Facebook and my daughter hashtagged it. Not sure if that does it or not.
In today's environment I have had good luck with Facebook (I don't have a Twitter account). But I was mostly contacting airlines and hotels that way because the wait times on the phone were just too long. I found that either posting something on their website, or sending a private message would get me a quick response, and in all cases my questions were answered or issue resolved (including refunds) quickly.
 
@csodjd FYI United was just over-ruled by DOT for changing the hours rules after the tickets were purchased (i.e. was 2 hours prior to March then changed to 6 hours). Perhaps the same applies for Alaska?

 
We are going to be dealing with United for a full refund for my MIL for her first class seat 6/6 on United, nonstop from Denver to Lihue. The flight hasn't changed (yet) but my mother-in-law is almost 92, and she is terrified of going on the flight with Covid 19. She just will not go. We can take the credit for our flights and use it for next February (if Governor Ige even lets us on the island).

Hawaii is going to lose a lot more than a bunch of businesses. They are going to lose their status as the ideal vacation for those of us who love it. We are not going to feel the same, with businesses gone and feeling unwelcome for a year or more.
 
@csodjd FYI United was just over-ruled by DOT for changing the hours rules after the tickets were purchased (i.e. was 2 hours prior to March then changed to 6 hours). Perhaps the same applies for Alaska?

I believe Hawaiian has done the same. And I see a class action lawsuit has already been filed against Hawaiian Airlines for refusal to provide refunds for canceled flights in violation of the law, and as an unfair and deceptive business practice.
 
That is part of American's Contract of Carriage. Refund for any time change of more than one hour, or any change from non-stop to one or more stops.

That was recently changed to four hours, for flights booked after April 17 or thereabouts.
 
So yesterday (Tuesday), in response to what they referred to as overwhelming numbers of complaints, the US DOT came down on United and Hawaiian and rejected their efforts to change their definition of a canceled flight retroactively. They said it would constitute an unfair and deceptive business practice. Hawaiian changed their definition of a "canceled "flight April 21, so if you purchased your tickets before that date, the old rule applies. DOT said refunds should be issued within a week According to TPG.

What a really stupid way for Hawaiian Airlines to alienate passengers at a time when they need consumer loyalty more than ever. I intend to get my refund and fly ANY airline BUT Hawaiian in the future.
 
Top