Frustrated with my ads on Redweek. I am getting grouchier about cheapskates in my old age

[CalGalTraveler]

Repeatingly calling and email me to give them a 2 BR July 4th week in Hilton Hawaiian Village for $700 is rude in my books.

I said NO, but they did not like that answer. My price was $1400. When I stopped answer their phone calls, they started to call me from other phone numbers. I did not answer their emails, but they kept emailing anyway. They would not take NO for my answer, they told me they get units for that price ALL the TIME. I told them good for them but they were NOT getting it from me. That is rude behavior in my book.

That sounds like harassment. Good for you for standing your ground. If they are this bad now, it probably gets worse if you rent to them. They could trash the place and blame it on you with a bad credit card given to the front desk.

FYI...if you buy a skype number or second cell phone number (https://www.cnet.com/how-to/apps-that-give-your-phone-a-second-number/)
you could use that number on your ad and make everyone leave a message and then return their call using that number or a blocked landline number. Once you close the rental and know they are legit then disclose your main phone # so you can answer promptly. There also is a feature on many emails to automatically take emails from certain senders and put directly into the trash. A little more work but avoids harassment.

Is there a way to report such abusers to Redweek or TUG? FWIW...It would be nice to have a system in Redweek that evaluates renters in addition to the landlord similar to UBER ratings where it goes both ways. I have never rented out my units but would love a similar system to know who I was renting to.

 

[AJCts411]

I Also rent out here. I don;t put any blame on any of the rental sites like Redweek, etc. Those low ball offers I simply reject once and that is it. Unless (which has never happened) the change their minds and offer the full price asked. My view is that if one drops their price into the ridiculous, then that will harm you/the market for ever. To the low baller...who says thats what I paid last year...then why not rent their again? My guess, they don't like the view or smell from the restaurant exhaust fans. I think that if you rent to a low baller, your inviting trouble.

 

[OldGuy]

Rhetorical question . . . if you are faced with buying a timeshare for $20,000, and a $1000 annual fee, or rent a four-bedroom 2900 square-foot pool house for $90/night, what would most people do?

Good question, although the $90 a night in most cases has add-on costs, i.e. cleaning fees, etc. that markedly move the price higher if it is booked through the traditional owner vacation property websites (Airbnb, VRBO, etc.).[/QUOTE]

Where do I send your check?

David Siegel


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PS: I guess that's why when a renter and I settle on $599, they ask about additional fees.

 

[chapjim]

It has reached the point of ridiculousness. A room for average of $75 a night is too high??? Near Disney?

I am a Marriott Rewards member (now Bonvoy) and received a nice email telling me that due to my affiliation and long standing loyalty, I would qualify for some very special rates. . . I could rent a HOTEL ROOM for as little as $125 a night during the remainder of summer time (not a weekend night, and not at popular locations, and not including taxes). So . . . the hotel industry recognizes that $125 a night for a room is a great deal, but our timeshare rental business customers feel that $75 for a CONDO is too high. Unfortunately, we have no one to blame but ourselves. As owners we have constantly underbid each other in an effort to sell a room. The customer base has grown accustomed to this and greedily look for the owners who are "stuck" and have no option but to sell the room for whatever they can get, even if it is less than their net cost (especially when you factor in the ad cost for RedWeek, guest name fee, and the PayPal fees).

We have the same shark mentality here on TUG, and it is wearing on me as well. Someone posted that they need a "two bedroom unit at Bonnet Creek for a certain week during summer time." And guess what, I found it, and was able to get it at the 60 day discount with a free upgrade from a one bedroom deluxe. I booked it and invoiced the poster for the allowed rate (which basically allows me to make $75 as my MFs are higher than most as I own a bunch of Royal Vista and Bonnet Creek). I wait on the poster to pay, and she delays and ultimately decides to cancel because someone on TUG privately offered it to her for $25 less. Of course this was after I had numerous emails back and forth with the poster wanting different date variables, and potential cost savers (she was NOT interested in staying anywhere except Bonnet Creek, even though Star Island was cheaper). Basically, I provided her with free education as to how the time share rental business operates.

That irritated me, but I guess I really should not be. My approach is along the lines of an outdated morality, a verbal (or digital) handshake should count for something, but it does not. So, I simply canceled the PayPal invoice and add this to the long list of lessons learned. I am less likely to try to help someone looking for great deal, because that is not really what they want, they want it cheaper than anyone else will offer and no honor exists or should be anticipated.

It is amazing that the potential renters all seem to have the same story - "yes I know it is a really good deal you are offering, but airfare is higher than I thought, and it was more expensive to rent a BMW convertible than I thought, and our Seven Day Disney pass is very expensive, so I need you as the timeshare owner to lower the cost to almost free for me to afford my vacation."

I do share the reaction that I would rather be stuck with the room than accept someone's obscene low ball offer. Perhaps that is a personality flaw, but I actually feel better to eat a reservation than to promote that type of customer. Maybe I am missing something, but I fail to see the connection between our buying resale timeshare contracts and why we need to accept low ball offers from potential renters. Our costs as TS owners is more closely linked to the maintenance fees than it is to our purchase price. I do not even factor into my costs the "buy in" costs for the timeshare contracts, be it resale or developer purchased. I figure that is a cost that is lost at the time of purchase. Not a related component.

Just one man's rambling thoughts. . . .

Wes

It's a Cadillac Escalade, not a BMW convertible.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Are there really cheap rentals like that on VRBO with houses that have pools?

Why would a person want a resort over that rental with pool house? How is it renting for that cheap, if it's in a nice area?

I think one reason a person should choose a resort over a house in the U.S. is that neighbors in neighborhoods where that caliber of rental do NOT appreciate having a short-term rental in their area.

I rent Dolphin's Cove to a woman who has five kids. She used to rent through VRBO and rented a nice house in Anaheim about 3 years ago, but when she and her family arrived from Idaho in their mini-van, the neighbors rushed their children from the front yards immediately. This was 4-5 families with kids who were playing kickball. Why do you think they did that? Could it be that strangers are in and out of a nice home on their street every week, sometimes more than once a week?

Anyone knows that sex offenders must register and notify every neighbor of their past crimes. So what guarantees does this homeowner give to neighbors that their short-term renters are not sex offenders? So that is one problem. You should feel comfortable in YOUR neighborhood. Anyone can check for sex offenders on their street or near their local school.

Laws are being changed in some cities, and HOA's are becoming strict about rentals, at least in the U.S. Other parts of the world, buyer beware. There was a family a while back that rented a house in Mexico and died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Resorts have front desks that are open 24/7. They have security. People are all strangers at resorts. I don't want anyone here saying that no one should ever travel because there could be sex offenders staying in the resort. That is ridiculous.

 

[OldGuy]

Anyone knows that sex offenders must register and notify every neighbor of their past crimes. So what guarantees does this homeowner give to neighbors that their short-term renters are not sex offenders? So that is one problem. You should feel comfortable in YOUR neighborhood. Anyone can check for sex offenders on their street or near their local school.

Wow! It's like you know me!!!

If Sex Offender is problematic, that took all of Orlando off searches years ago. When I used to search it, when I used to care, I would find them actually in timeshare resorts. Probably still can.

What better place for a pedophile!!!!????
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That having been said, we live in a HUGE Snowbird vacation rental area. The houses on both sides and behind us across the canal, are all vacation rentals, and many of the others around us are.

It's no big deal; in fact there is a comradery and friendship with the ones we see every year, and look forward to, just like we look forward to the seasonal owners we hang with.

It's is quite the opposite of a constant turnover of riff-riff.

What might be of concern is a place turning over several thousand guests every week, with none of them being vetted.
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Sorry, I just had to do it, I put 8550 W. Wrlo Bronson Parkway, Kissimmee, FL 34747 in here, and got 16 offenders:

https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/sops/neighborhoodSearch.jsf

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Things have changed in the last 10 to 15 years.

Ten to fifteen years ago, back when I was doing some renting (profitably, with repeat business), the primary competition was the resort itself, hotels, and private properties rented using vacation home property managers. I had to be cheaper than those sites, because that was the comparison shopping that people did.

Now the primary comparison shopping that people do is with AirBnB and VRBO.

And one outgrowth of that market is the decimation of the vacation home property manager rental business. Almost everyone who was using those outfits to handle rentals has moved to AirBnB and VRBO. Since the property managers used to 33% to 50% of the rental as their fee, the short term stay market has slashed the prices in that market while simultaneously making it vastly easier for people to look for properties. Those sites make it so easy to get into the rental business, that we now see the torrents of people bringing even more inventory into the market.

*******

The timeshare rental paradigm has shifted. Even timeshare owners are using the short-term stay sites.

 

[ski_sierra]

let's say you set certain price in the market price ballpark and the renter agrees to that price without any negotiation. Do you feel you could have set the price a bit higher or you feel great that you got the rate you wanted?

 

[TravelTime]

I have cared for other people and gotten burned. No good dead goes unpunished. Lesson learned.

Interesting, can you share more?

 

[TravelTime]

I have rented quite a few on Redweek with great success, but I have several ads on RW, and some things just never rent, including Hono Koa, even when I have a week during whale season, and I tell people that you can whale watch from the lanai.

I wish I could stay at Hono Koa for three weeks sometime. We have an old cat that we cannot leave for that long. His brother is already gone.

People don't read the text of the ads. Reading comprehension, people!

How does it work to put a TS rental week on AirBnB? I think only low ballers use Redweek and that is why we have trouble renting. It is like posting on TUG. Who is on TUG? People who want to take advantage of others to their own benefit. Not everyone, I can name a couple handful of very great people here who like to help others and then I see some posts from people who are self interested and subscribe to the Me First philosophy.

 

[TravelTime]

let's say you set certain price in the market price ballpark and the renter agrees to that price without any negotiation. Do you feel you could have set the price a bit higher or you feel great that you got the rate you wanted?

I feel great I got the price I wanted without negotiation. I am a business woman and I set my prices without negotiation. If someone negotiates, I refer them to my competition who likes to haggle. I make more money than they do as a result, believe it or not. Fixed pricing is better for keeping margins high. I look at supply and demand. If people are agreeing to my prices and we are full, then it is time to raise prices. We usually have a waiting list. When I first started my business in 2010, I had 3 price increases in a year because I set prices too low. You can’t negotiate up so it is better to set at what you are willing to accept and raise prices when demand exceeds supply. People haggle for pennies, not worth my time. For rentals, I would set the price slightly below the market rate to rent fast. Frankly, for a TS rental, I might set it higher and then give a few dollars off to satisfy other people’s need to haggle and desire to take advantage and get the most out of others. ”Me First” is the trend those days so I may as well play along with the TS community. But not in my business life. I believe in fairness in my business.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

And one outgrowth of that market is the decimation of the vacation home property manager rental business. Almost everyone who was using those outfits to handle rentals has moved to AirBnB and VRBO. Since the property managers used to 33% to 50% of the rental as their fee, the short term stay market has slashed the prices in that market while simultaneously making it vastly easier for people to look for properties. Those sites make it so easy to get into the rental business, that we now see the torrents of people bringing even more inventory into the market.

Adding to my comments ....

One issue with timeshare market historically has been that it appeals to people who prefer a residence-type of a setting to a hotel room settings. They don't want daily maid service or amenities such as spas and room service. They like to have a kitchen and do at least some of their own cooking, and they want a space where they can set up and feel as if they are "home". So the comparison with hotel rates was never that close anyway.

The people who did want those condo types of accommodations then were those drawn to vacation property rentals, which was almost always done through vacation property managers. The managers would handle reservations for large numbers of properties, they would runs ads in the real estate sections in newspapers around the country. If you wanted to find out what was available you had to call them, and they would match you up with what was in their inventory. And as I noted they took a hefty fee.

As a timeshare renter, I always figured that was closer to my market. The problem that you have as an owner of such a property is marketing - just letting people know that you exist. That's what the vacation property manager did for the whole ownership owners. But that wasn't feasible for timeshare owners.

Then sites such as TUG came along where you could post ads. On eBay you could put a rental up for auction - that's how I got started doing my rentals. CraigsList became an option. Suddenly there was a place where you could generate some visibility, and rent your unit profitably.

******

That was just a little perturbation that signaled the massive shift created by short term stay web sites. Those sites completely altered that "non-hotel/resort" portion of the market. If you want to play in the condo/residence rental game, AirBnB and VRBO offerings are your competition.

Our kids were exposed to timeshare. They like the concept, and when they vacation, those non-hotel/resort accommodations are what they want. But they look on AirBnB and VRBO as a matter of course; they don't go out wondering where they might be able to find a timeshare. And of course they have no interest in actually owning a timeshare.

*******

And for myself, I find those sites so easy to use and navigate and the prices are so attractive, that I don't even bother with looking at postings of timeshare for rent.

Why should I spend four or more hours hunting through timeshare rental sites, looking for something that might fit, negotiating with an owner where neither of us really know each other - when I can do all of that in less than an hour on AirBnB or VRBO. And if something does go south there is a corporate entity that can provide at least some assistance or recompense?

 

[TravelTime]

Rhetorical question . . . if you are faced with buying a timeshare for $20,000, and a $1000 annual fee, or rent a four-bedroom 2900 square-foot pool house for $90/night, what would most people do?

Good question, although the $90 a night in most cases has add-on costs, i.e. cleaning fees, etc. that markedly move the price higher if it is booked through the traditional owner vacation property websites (Airbnb, VRBO, etc.).[/QUOTE]

$90 sounds like it would be a dump. I would not even look at it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Hey Old Guy, why do you think I put in that last paragraph. I knew someone would post that hotels and timeshares have the same issue. But everyone is on guard there. In neighborhoods, where everyone knows everyone, but that one house down the block. When you are in your own home, you don't want strangers in your neighborhood every week.

 

[TravelTime]

I am thinking we should start a new thread for folks who like quality and upscale timeshares and rentals. We get into silly debates because we have so many different folks on TUG. My concern is the people who are interested in $90 a night rentals would invade the upscale threat and argue with us over our preferences. We should have different sections on TUG based on quality, not just destination. But I guess that is what the brand name TSS offer. Also we like ease of us, maintenance, etc.

 

[wjappraise]

let's say you set certain price in the market price ballpark and the renter agrees to that price without any negotiation. Do you feel you could have set the price a bit higher or you feel great that you got the rate you wanted?

I place my prices at a fair point, and as a result, most of my rental transactions are agreed without negotiation. While I understand that means I could have set the price higher, I am happy with the results when both participants feel it was good. I try to avoid negotiation, unless I fall for a sob story (almost always live to regret those decisions).

It does appear that RedWeek has become a vast wasteland of listings. I used to get almost immediate responses to my listings, with ones who would become repeat renters, removing the need for the costly ad placement. Now, it can sit with no responses for weeks or months (especially for a smaller resort - Wyndham Clearwater, Wyndham Reunion, Sundara Spa, etc.). However, lately I have enjoyed better responses from CraigsList, which is without a listing fee and has no annual member fee. Of course, I do get more scam artists, but they are easier to identify once an invoice is sent.

I am in the process of considering moving my marketing away from RedWeek due to the costs and limited success rates.

Wes

 

[presley]

The OP is about a rental near Disneyland in California. It's apples to oranges to compare anything there to Orlando.

 

[OldGuy]

A variety . . .

There's strangers and then there's strangers. Where we live, I know exactly where the sex offenders live. Where we visit, I don't. We have strangers in our neighborhood all winter. Hundreds of thousands of them. Some of them don't even speak English. OMG, what's the world coming to!!!???
- - - - - -
The vacation rental industry is rough on even vacation rental owners. When we bought our second Florida home, our original idea was to make it a vacation rental, but only because we bought into right, purchase money was free, and mortgage money was less than cheap. But, I had an epiphany, and realized we could sell the first one with no tax liability, and pay for the first one, and then some, so why do all that vacation rental work for a little bit of return, and then have to pay taxes on it?

So, the houses on both sides of us were purchased to be vacation rental houses. Both are for sale or have been sold already. Their mistake was to buy their properties at retail, or thereabouts, and it's hard to make a buck that way. Mortgage payment, improvements, insurance, no homestead exemption, lawn care, pest care, security, management fees . . . Gosh, that could have been us!
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The vacation rental competition on the Internet is coming mostly from other vacation rental individuals, not corporations, and all are dealing with these same issues, probably posting on some vacation rental forum, VRUG.
- - - - -
BMW convertible . . . almost bought one of those, then found a pretty straight little kid's car. Then a Scion xA. Then the Escalade. The last two coming from Rusherns.
- - - - -
The $90/night rentals are nicer than the timeshares we bought into, but, yes, there is a wide divergence in TS owners, and the upper-crusters should be in a forum of their own, discussing issues common to them, because their issues, desires, expectations, and $$$ level are different than the mainstream. That gets in the way of a lot discussions, but I just consider the source, that we are not talking about the same timeshare industry.

I guess that's enough for now, y'all came up with a lot of stuff while I was down at the dock.

IMHO

 

[taffy19]

Hey Old Guy, why do you think I put in that last paragraph. I knew someone would post that hotels and timeshares have the same issue. But everyone is on guard there. In neighborhoods, where everyone knows everyone, but that one house down the block. When you are in your own home, you don't want strangers in your neighborhood every week.

@rickandcindy23 , please answer my question in post #23. I cannot see post numbers here so counted them out.

I may send you a PM too but other people may like to know your answer to that question too.

Our greetings to Rick!

 

[OldGuy]

Sorta funny, when I'm on this thread, I get a pop-up ad from RCI for some of their $300/week rentals.

Now, there's a real source of TS owner rental competition!!!!

 

[TravelTime]

VRBO shows rack rate or close to rack rate. As a landlord, it is much better to rent though AirBnB or VRBO. People there do not know the MFs for the TS and compare to hotel prices. Redweek is mainly where timeshare people go to try to rent for what folks are paying for MFs. I am going to rent my weeks on AirBnB or VRBO and see what happens.

BTW, I spent NYE at Princeville a few years ago. It was sold out and everything was renting for rack rate. I do not understand why people here say it is a bad rental during week 52. I can’t even get airfare now. It is already sold out or double the normal rate. This is evidence that it is probably a great rental. Once my week closes, I can attempt to rent it out and see what rate I can get but I am NOT using Redweek anymore.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

People there do not know the MFs for the TS and compare to hotel prices.

Correction - people there care nothing about what the MFs are. The only question that matters to a renter is how much does it cost and what am I going to get for my money.

When I do something such as a Name Your Own Price for a hotel room, I spend zero amount of time thinking about what the hotel's cost might be to make that room available. The only thing that matters is will they give me the room for that price.

Same thing when I've bought timeshares. It matters not one whit to me what the seller paid for the timeshare initially. The only thing that matters is whether they will sell it for what I am ready to pay for it.

******

I'm really baffled at the thought by rentees that renters should care about the MFs. That may be significant to the rentee in determining a bottom price below which they will not rent. But for the renter the only question is what is the usage and how much will I pay.

*****
Sunk Costs:

When it comes to buying a resale, some sellers will say they can't sell it for prices that TUGgers are offering because then they would be losing money on the deal. The response here is that those sellers need to realize that the ownership isn't worth what they paid for it.

Isn't it the same thing when it comes to a rental, and someone says I can't rent it for that amount because it would be less than what my fees are for the week and I would be losing money?

 

[OldGuy]

The OP is about a rental near Disneyland in California. It's apples to oranges to compare anything there to Orlando.

Granted I'm old and don't understand a lot, but I don't see many posts in this thread that wouldn't apply just about anywhere.



But, to try to keep everyone happy, here's 712 Orange County vacation rentals:

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/d/vacation-rentals/search/vac

 

[chapjim]

I feel great I got the price I wanted without negotiation. I am a business woman and I set my prices without negotiation. If someone negotiates, I refer them to my competition who likes to haggle. I make more money than they do as a result, believe it or not. Fixed pricing is better for keeping margins high. I look at supply and demand. If people are agreeing to my prices and we are full, then it is time to raise prices. We usually have a waiting list. When I first started my business in 2010, I had 3 price increases in a year because I set prices too low. You can’t negotiate up so it is better to set at what you are willing to accept and raise prices when demand exceeds supply. People haggle for pennies, not worth my time. For rentals, I would set the price slightly below the market rate to rent fast. Frankly, for a TS rental, I might set it higher and then give a few dollars off to satisfy other people’s need to haggle and desire to take advantage and get the most out of others. ”Me First” is the trend those days so I may as well play along with the TS community. But not in my business life. I believe in fairness in my business.

I believe in fairness in everything I do. However, referring back to posts #28-32, that has nothing to do with fairness. I don't believe I need to bend to every transparently bogus plea for me to cut my price because someone claims he can't afford it because of his budget. That not a fairness issue.

 

[amycurl]

How much of a discount do you ask for?

I have never asked for a discount. I have sometimes posted a few requests on the LMR board, but both times our plans changed, and I have never rented from an owner. I'm not a haggler, by nature. My post was not about my behavior in particular, but just the observation that a polite "Would you take x amount, or is your listing price your final price?" (esp. if it is *not* explicitly stated as being a final price) and then taking a "Yes, it's a final price" as an answer would not, IMO, be inherently rude.

I said NO, but they did not like that answer. My price was $1400. When I stopped answer their phone calls, they started to call me from other phone numbers. I did not answer their emails, but they kept emailing anyway. They would not take NO for my answer, they told me they get units for that price ALL the TIME. I told them good for them but they were NOT getting it from me. That is rude behavior in my book.

However, as noted above by Sandy, NOT taking no for an answer politely IS inherently rude and would be incredibly frustrating, I agree.