Boss suddenly says can no longer take 2 weeks off!

[MOXJO7282]

Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.

If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.

I was avoid quitting if at all possible. If you see they won't allow I would just start doing the bare minimum and perhaps they will look to release you.

Don't let them force you out because of their pettiness and then not have to pay you unemployment benefits because you quit. Find out what the ruling is and then just do 9-5 nothing special work and hopefully they do something before you have to.

If they don't then take the 2 weeks anyway and that should trigger a firing. They may say you in essence quit by not showing up but then you would probably be able to sue. I believe if your story was heard in a court of law, given there was a precendent of 2 weeks taken previously and no policy against it you would win a favorable ruling.

I've seen one case where an older worker who was well reviewed for years all of a sudden was released because his work legitimately started falling off but he cried age discrimination and eventually won a settlement because the company didn't want any part of going to court if there is any chance they would lose.

 

[geekette]

Not sure of the law in NY, but it is my understanding that unused PTO is owed to you when you leave a company in MA. Check into it and don't burn it all if you plan to quit next July. You may want that chunk of cash to cushion you.

Wow, holy crap, great state!

We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules. The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B) policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work.

I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving. But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.

 

[geekette]

Absolutely! I am always interested in a possible job I can do from home! I would certainly check into it. Thanks in advance.

I will dig it up this weekend and PM you. I thought it was fairly interesting, if I had the time.

 

[PigsDad]

Wow, holy crap, great state!

We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules. The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B) policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work.

I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving. But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.

Yep, my company has the same policy of not paying out accrued vacation (but if you are "in the hole", they will deduct that from your last paycheck!). When people leave, they usually give their 2 week notice and if they say they are off to work for a competitor, they are escorted out that day. That way they get paid for their last 2 weeks but don't even have to show up for work. It's a great way to plan your exit!

Kurt

 

[falmouth3]

Wow, holy crap, great state!

We are an at-will state, each employer sets their own rules. The last job that I quit, I used all of my vaca time before putting in resignation because A) it would not be paid out and B) policy says you cannot use paid time off during final 2 weeks of work.

I felt like a heel, coming in on Monday after a week out to say I'm Leaving. But, having a policy put them in that position vs just paying out the earned time on my final check.

MA is also an at will state. NY and MA are very clear that unpaid/unused vacation time is owed to the employee. MA, however does address PTO:

Annual Leave
Some employers combine sick leave, personal leave, vacation leave, and/or other types of leave into one general category called “annual leave.” This combined leave is also called paid time off, earned time, or paid days off. Employers who provide annual leave instead of vacation leave should designate the amount of hours or days of the leave which are considered vacation time. Employers who have previously designated vacation time in this manner, whether orally or in writing, shall produce proof of such designation to rebut a complaint of unpaid wages pursuant to M.G.L. c. 149, s. 148.

I once worked for a company that had 2 floating holidays that the employee could use whenever they wanted. I always used my floaters first so I'd have my designated vacation left for any eventualities. Floating holidays were not paid when you left. Vacation days were.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

My 2nd 2 cents - for the day / on TUG

I assume most of us reading and posting on Mary Ann 's thread are past 50 .
and it has grown to 3 pages quickly .

I guess we are not that different than the Millenials - who are looking for the next / better job on the day they start .

Bosses with questionable judgement and questionable people skills ,seem to,be everywhere .

Have a good weekend

******

Monday morning & work come too soon .

.

 

[WinniWoman]

I wouldn't read too much into it. He might have just been busy or he might have been trying to pull some sort of power maneuver. Just wait a bit. Maybe bring him something he likes, brownies or something. Then wait a bit. Then ask again - very friendly and in a very clear manner - and see his response.

That's what I am thinking. I never asked him anything. I took my vacation- which he and the bigger boss knew about back in Feb.- and then 2 weeks later now he said this- "no more back to back vacations". I am always nice to him. He's the boss. I do whatever he asks whenever he asks- with a big smile and "no problem"!

 

[Icc5]

World Fair/Expo

I like that! LOL!

Yes- next year if he says something I will ask why. It won't matter what his answer is because I will be out of there.

As for your company- you see?! I worked all my life and there in your company look how much time new young people are only just STARTING with!

I am making the same salary I made almost 20 years ago. I have less time off, less benefits, less everything. It is just what happened with the economy- layoffs and so on and I have been grateful to be able to work and make money and survive through it all.

But enough is enough with these companies taking advantage of their employees.

Oh and did I mention that ALSO this past June, after my two weeks vacation that month, I also took two days off because my husband won an award at his job - a trip to Boston along with other employees from across the country. (did I mention that we have to pay taxes on it?!! Being taken out of several paychecks. But- that is another story!). He was notified only a couple of months ahead and I immediately told my bosses about it.

Well, I didn't even want to go, but the BIGGER Boss though it was awesome and encouraged me to go. Every time I saw him he asked about it before and after the trip. Go figure.....

Years ago before I got married I won a trip to Canada World Expo because of having the best displays in my district (Safeway) and I took my best friend. We even were given hats,jackets, carry on bag (all had vendors names on them).
Not only did I have to pay tax on everything but it showed up as income on my pay stub. Cost me a pretty Penney.

 

[lizap]

They have the 'right' as long as they are not violating the Age Discrmination in Employment Act which, I think could be a distinct possibility...I would consult an employment law attorney, especially if there are other instances of discriminatory behavior..

G'day mpermilia, i see a lot of encouragement to check labour laws, regulations and company policy, but don't forget to balance all of that against what is important to you physically, emotionally, psychologically, and of course financially. And following on from big matts comment, remember that if management have the discretion to limit vacation time, THEY ALSO HAVE THE DISCRETION TO EXTEND IT! Good luck.

 

[Egret1986]

I have found this thread perplexing since the beginning...but very, very interesting

Mary Ann, you're an 11-year employee. You get along with folks where you work. You have a good relationship with your boss and the big boss. You're accustomed to taking back-to-back weeks. You submit it in February each year.

1) I'm baffled why the boss didn't offer an explanation for the change.

2) I'm curious why you didn't ask the reason for this new policy when he didn't offer up one. Do you not have that type of a rapport with him?

This is driving you crazy wondering why. I don't really understand why you have to be going covert in attempting to glean information from others. You're plotting potential strategies for carrying out a plan for your vacation time next year and what you'll do if there's an issue. That kind of stuff is called "stress". You have enough already.

I can't imagine a major benefit change not being addressed in writing to all employees, along with an explanation (no matter how simple or generic)....something.

Apparently, it was just a one-on-one verbal statement that was made to you by your boss. The way it was handled seems like it was specific to you.

I'm curious why you didn't address the reason for the change when he told you no more back-to-back weeks. This change has the potential to impact your vacation happiness and may even be cause for you to quit your job.

It's just a bit bizarre to me. It seems that it could all be resolved by asking to meet with the boss to find out what happened and why. I hope this is an option. It would be much better to get this resolved now rather than later.

I wish you the best with this issue at work.

PS

I hope that "work-from-home" deal is something that could be a potential option for you. Good Luck!!!

 

[FLDVCFamily]

Is it possible that your position is something that they are looking to cut in general (not age-discrimination related) and they are trying to subtly make you want to quit? It sounds like you aren't a costly employee (not even taking the health insurance), so that was the only thing that came to mind.

 

[pedro47]

What is the total number of employees employed at this company? Again, I would check with another HR company in a similar health care field and read your company handbook. I also, would recommend checking other departments within the company. This may be your supervisor personal policy and not the company written policy. Check withe the ACLU in your area/state or a college law school in your area for guidance. The company maybe breaking some federal or state laws. Documents and print out all your emails about this problem and take your documentation home. Please have your supervisor put this/his policy in written via company email... Please do not discuss your problems with your fellow workers. Good luck.

 

[pedro47]

Any job I ever got laid off from I didn't get one cent in severence and this one would be no different.

If I end up having to quit next year because of this stupid vacation thing I will work on starting my blog and maybe trying to get a part time work at home job. No more being a prostitute for a paycheck.

You are not entitle to servant pay if you were fired with causes in the state of Virginia.

 

[WinniWoman]

Mary Ann, you're an 11-year employee. You get along with folks where you work. You have a good relationship with your boss and the big boss. You're accustomed to taking back-to-back weeks. You submit it in February each year.

1) I'm baffled why the boss didn't offer an explanation for the change.

2) I'm curious why you didn't ask the reason for this new policy when he didn't offer up one. Do you not have that type of a rapport with him?

This is driving you crazy wondering why. I don't really understand why you have to be going covert in attempting to glean information from others. You're plotting potential strategies for carrying out a plan for your vacation time next year and what you'll do if there's an issue. That kind of stuff is called "stress". You have enough already.

I can't imagine a major benefit change not being addressed in writing to all employees, along with an explanation (no matter how simple or generic)....something.

Apparently, it was just a one-on-one verbal statement that was made to you by your boss. The way it was handled seems like it was specific to you.

I'm curious why you didn't address the reason for the change when he told you no more back-to-back weeks. This change has the potential to impact your vacation happiness and may even be cause for you to quit your job.

It's just a bit bizarre to me. It seems that it could all be resolved by asking to meet with the boss to find out what happened and why. I hope this is an option. It would be much better to get this resolved now rather than later.

I wish you the best with this issue at work.

PS

I hope that "work-from-home" deal is something that could be a potential option for you. Good Luck!!!

Yes- it is bizarre. I don't know why I didn't ask him myself. I could kick myself. I think I didn't ask him because I was taken back frankly. My boss is the type of person that, although I get along ok with him, you can't question him- he goes into attack mode. We both are overly sensitive. I think part of me backs off because I revert to my childhood with my authoritarian style upbringing. I am one of those not quick on my feet thinkers- I am the "feeling" type. Feel first- go with my intuition and analyze everything to death later! LOL!

Yes- I am baffled as to why he didn't give me a reason as well.

On top of everything else he is a bit on edge because his young daughter is battling cancer. I suppose I just retreated and stayed away to avoid confrontation- which I hate. And- I know I wouldn't win anyway- his ego is too big- way big. He has to always be right. He is a pretty insecure person deep down I think and he is also very secretive. (I won't get into astrology- but I am big on astrology and let's just say I have his number- he is very typical for his sign, as I am of mine)

At this point I really do not want to raise this issue up with him again. This will put him on the defensive- a place he doesn't like to be and it won't be good. I had my chance when I was on the defensive and I blew it. I will have to wait for next time- if there even is a next time.

As for the company putting something in writing. Every so often they make changes to the employee handbook. Last was done in January 2016. But- regarding vacation time- I just looked it up and of course all time off is at the discretion of management- nice and broad- meaning they can do whatever they want in terms of approving time off..

 

[WinniWoman]

What is the total number of employees employed at this company? Again, I would check with another HR company in a similar health care field and read your company handbook. I also, would recommend checking other departments within the company. This may be your supervisor personal policy and not the company written policy. Check withe the ACLU in your area/state or a college law school in your area for guidance. The company maybe breaking some federal or state laws. Documents and print out all your emails about this problem and take your documentation home. Please have your supervisor put this/his policy in written via company email... Please do not discuss your problems with your fellow workers. Good luck.

I do not know exactly how many employees- maybe something like 30- but not all full-time- many part-timers.

I can tell you that working for doctors in general stinks- not them as people- just the way of the business. Our facility is owned by doctors as it is a radiology center. My immediate bosses are not doctors. As I said- NY is an at will employer state. They can do whatever they want more or less.

Whether he puts it in writing or not, I will be out of there if he enforces it.

 

[WinniWoman]

Is it possible that your position is something that they are looking to cut in general (not age-discrimination related) and they are trying to subtly make you want to quit? It sounds like you aren't a costly employee (not even taking the health insurance), so that was the only thing that came to mind.

I don't know honestly- but hey- if they want to cut me out they should just do it. Why mention something like this when it isn't even time to put in vacation dates for next year?

You would think he would have just told me that I couldn't take XMAS week off to try to make me quit.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Many bosses are just tired from the crap raining down on them ... and then having to put up with the employees whining under them. They are as TRAPPED in a job as their employees with 11 years or more so ... skill set specific to the company, few options in the local area and bosses OUT of the AREA, feeling MORE cuts/reduction in costs can be achieved in a depressed and lower wage area. Besides, the bigger (not in the area) bosses don't know you all and feel ANY clerk can be replaced by a new (less costly, younger, willing) clog in the wheel of paper pushing.

If his daughter is battling cancer, he is in total FEAR he will lose his health insurance ... he will protect his job 10 fold over any coworker or friend. And as for work friends ... the people you see every morning (at the best & worst) ... you leave (or get laid off), you become 'dead' to them. They are "work acquaintances" ... a friend would lend you $5000 even if they didn't have it to spare; a co-worker gives you $10 to pickup a Subway sandwich and expects the change...as you would expect them to cough over the cost of their sandwich when you deliver it...after all, why should they expect you to pay for their lunch 3 days before payday .. like YOU got more money than they do?

 

[WinniWoman]

I was avoid quitting if at all possible. If you see they won't allow I would just start doing the bare minimum and perhaps they will look to release you.

Don't let them force you out because of their pettiness and then not have to pay you unemployment benefits because you quit. Find out what the ruling is and then just do 9-5 nothing special work and hopefully they do something before you have to.

If they don't then take the 2 weeks anyway and that should trigger a firing. They may say you in essence quit by not showing up but then you would probably be able to sue. I believe if your story was heard in a court of law, given there was a precendent of 2 weeks taken previously and no policy against it you would win a favorable ruling.

I've seen one case where an older worker who was well reviewed for years all of a sudden was released because his work legitimately started falling off but he cried age discrimination and eventually won a settlement because the company didn't want any part of going to court if there is any chance they would lose.

]

Well- this is a very interesting response. Let me say that I already do the bare minimum since I haven't had a raise in many years (- let me correct that- last year I suddenly noticed that there was $7.00 (yes- you read that right) more in my paycheck. I saw that my hourly pay had been rounded off. Nothing said to me about it. I suppose that was some kind of token raise). A few years after I started working there my quarterly bonuses just stopped with no mention. Our lunch hour was cut to a half hour. (work hours are 8-4:30).
Our vacation time accrual was cut by 4 days and capped.I said to myself- I get less, I work less. I take many more breaks- I have the freedom to do so wince I am out in the field mostly.

That said- I do not have a stressful job and it is actually easy in many ways, though it's overall objective can be hard because of market forces.The only thing I could really do that would force them to fire me would be to badmouth them to the community or to not show up for work- bad stuff like that- and I wouldn't be eligible for unemployment then. I could never bring myself to ever do things like that anyway. I am not made like that.

BUT- interesting thing you mentioned- just don't come back after the one week of vacation and stay away for the whole two weeks. I like it! LOL!

Yeah- I would be fired- but again- I don't know if I could get unemployment
in that case- especially in NY which is an at will employer state. But- hey- you never know!

 

[pedro47]

To the OP. if you take this problem to a legal person that are going to ask you. What do you have in writing and a copy of your employee handbook.

 

[WinniWoman]

To the OP. if you take this problem to a legal person that are going to ask you. What do you have in writing and a copy of your employee handbook.

Yes. I know. I have a copy of the handbook and nothing in writing because they rarely put things in writing.

But I do not see this becoming a legal issue, though who knows?

 

[Kel]

It appears to me that you are over thinking this. You should just go in and talk to your supervisor ask why you cannot take two weeks of vacation at a time. Seems simple to me. Or, your husband may be right... They may be trying to get rid of you.

 

[Kal]

If they are looking to get rid of you, their approach will be very carefully thought through. When dealing with a senior aged employee, the first thing they will have to guard against is age discrimination. For them, it would be best if you just departed on your own volition.

Don't even think about lawyers. They have all the time and financial advantages to just wear you down.

If all else fails, just talk to them in a quiet non-threatening setting.

 

[WinniWoman]

It appears to me that you are over thinking this. You should just go in and talk to your supervisor ask why you cannot take two weeks of vacation at a time. Seems simple to me. Or, your husband may be right... They may be trying to get rid of you.

Yes. I know. I tend to overthink everything. I am not going to worry about it anymore at this point. I have gone through all the scenarios in my head and exhausted myself! LOL!

It could have even been that he might have been overwhelmed/hassled with a lot of vacations this summer and he himself might have messed up some of the techs' schedules since he has been off a lot because of his sick daughter. Maybe he just took it out on me at that moment. This would be the best case scenario.

I am not going to bring it up again. He said "we will see next year and I will have to talk to "the bigger boss". So - fine. I will put in for my time like I always do in Feb/March and see what happens.

I am going to just hope he forgets about it next year and if he doesn't I will ask for his reasoning and I know what I have to do and just have to figure out the best way to do it.

Thanks everyone! I will keep you all updated and let you know the outcome! LOL!

 

[normab]

You've been given some good advice already but I thought I'd add my opinion too. As long as there is no written policy that says two consecutive week vacations are not allowed, it's up to the discretion of your management, which in my opinion includes your boss and your boss's boss.

I would not do anything now, just wait until February when you normally submit your request. I would email the request to my boss and I would CC his manager on that email. This way, if it's your boss who's having an issue but his boss isn't, then you may have a little more negotiation power.

If your boss was just having a bad day, then it will not be an issue anyway. If there is serious pushback however, that's the time to open up the dialogue about why and, if others are being allowed to take two weeks back to back vacations, I would state that its discriminatory against you. If they're not letting anyone do it, then some other Tuugers have given you good advice on how to handle the situation.

It's funny how when you use the word harassment or discrimination in a sentence how people back down very quickly. I've seen this used very successfully by other people in my many years of work. It can be a bit adversarial, so be aware of this.

Good luck.

 

[am1]

Lets not throw around using harassment or discrimination with everything. It could just be that two weeks in a row is too hard for the company.

It seems if the op bosses saw these threads and others she would be let go. She may be great at what she does but it seems there is an attitude problem and maybe that is cause for some of this. I am sure a lot of others would be very happy to have this job at the same pay or less.

The best advice would be to find another place of employment. Seems like everyone would win with that.