Hilton Club NY Lounge access no longer available to RCI Exchangers

[CalGalTraveler]

Seriously. .. for the most part, if you are exchanging into ny property, you are probably realizing a net benefit (mf plus exchange fees) of at least 50 percent on your mf.

With that savings I would be more than willing to pay for my own danish and glass of wine...

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I agree with Jason245. Besides why would anyone new to NYC want to spend scarce vacation time elbowing for danish and cheap wine when you could go out and experience real NYC Hot Dogs, Bagels, pizza, Eataly etc.

I believe people here are confusing a property amenity associated with trading a fixed physical unit and amenities available to all (kitchen, landscaping, parking) with an elite perk which remains with the individual who paid a premium for such benefits (Food, Drinks, Gold HHonors, upgrades).

For example, if you are an Elite and trade your unit with me, I don't get to use your Elite perks to check in early, upgrades (or whatever else elite's get), I simply get to use your physical unit as you do mine. Similarly, lounge food services are an elite perk given to owners of HCNY, W. 57th, Las Vegas Boulevard Elite, and (possibly) Kingsland that remains with the individuals who paid a premium for it. How is this any different than hotels where elites get breakfast with their room. But others who don't have elite status or are not willing to pay for it don't?

Now if only they would serve better alcohol...

 

[jestme]

Ok, let me ask you this: When you trade your NYC property for a property that includes a different perk that you don't get at your home property, should you be expected to pay for that? For example:

A surcharge for parking (your NYC property doesn't include free parking)
A surcharge for extra square footage (your NYC property is tiny in comparison)
A surcharge for a full-sized kitchen (your NYC property's kitchen is lacking)
etc.
etc.

So why do you think it is unfair for people exchanging into your NYC property to receive all the amenities at that property?

Kurt

How about a surcharge for oceanfront?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Next, the HCNY owners will want 2 oceanfront 2/2 units for one exchange fee by depositing their 1 week. After all, they have such a premium "resort" (ie hotel room in NYC) that they are depositing.

My direct beachfront timeshare studio timeshare condo (fixed week 52 & Week 1 including Week 53 this year) in Pompano Beach, FL (6 miles due north of Ft Lauderdale) has MFs of under $1800 per year (total for both units).

Wait ... I have a full kitchen and in unit washer & dryer plus free parking. And 14 nights (21 nights this coming December, 2016).

And earlier this week, I was figuring out HOW to use my DVC points .. thinking I would exchange into HCNY. Glad I rented by DVC points instead. Will pay my DVC MFs cover my MFs for my 3 week stay in my South Florida beachfront TS unit (week 52, 53 and 1) after paying my DVC MFs. Might have enough money left to buy a few bottles of red wine. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

How about a surcharge for oceanfront?

HGVC already factors this in for everyone in the system. For example, at Lagoon Tower, 2 Bedroom Oceanfront Premier, or Penthouse units require more points to use than a 2 Bedroom plus or garden view unit. Newer units such as Grand Waikikian requires more points, 2 bedrooms are more than 1 bedrooms etc.

Keep in mind, physical amenities of the unit/property should not be confused with an individual's elite status perks. So if I trade with you to use your HGVC 2 bedroom penthouse, that does not entitle me to get free breakfast, HHonors gold, or late checkout associated with your personal Elite status. DVC and Worldmark have similar elite status programs, no? Hilton is a hotel chain and HGVC thinks like a hotel. Everyone gets to use the pool but only HHonors elites get free breakfast no matter what room in the hotel they happen to occupy because elite status is tied to the person not the room.

 

[alwysonvac]

The primary point of my post was to warn others that lounge access is no longer available.

Keep in mind, lounge access has been available to everyone for 10+ years.
When I book my reservation approximately 8 months ago, I made my decision based on this access since the Hilton Club only offers a glorified hotel room (not a studio with a mini fridge, microwave, etc).

I'm pissed that Hilton made the decision effective immediately impacting all existing reservations. I would have made a different choice if lounge access wasn't included. Now to make things even worst, it sounds like I'll lose my RCI exchange fee when I cancel.

For those who don't know, it's simply continental breakfast and evening hors d'oeuvres with beverages. It was a nice option since the rooms don't offer what you would typically expected from a timeshare. It's not a feast and most folks weren't trying to stock pile or drink their weight in liquor

We had our first stay this year via RCI Points.

Here's photos of the studio room and Club lounge from our Labor Day Weekend stay - https://www.flickr.com/photos/40089311@N05/sets/72157660274360701#

When we were there the Hilton Club lounge had the following for breakfast: hard boiled eggs, pastries, toaster with bread/bagels, individual yogurt cups, individual boxes of cereal, packages of instant oatmeal, fresh fruit (pineapple, cantaloupe & honeydew), whole fruit (bananas, apples, oranges), juices, bottled water, coffee and tea.

In the evenings, they had cheeses, crackers, veggie crudite, fresh fruit (pineapple, cantaloupe & honeydew), whole fruit (bananas, apples, oranges), flat bread with dip, one hot appetizer which changed daily, wine, beer, soda and bottled water.

In the late evenings, they had cookies.

 

[Tamaradarann]

New York City, New York City, New York City

I was born, educated and worked in NYC for many years. Good and/or Bad it is a different place than any other in the US. The Hilton Club is a different system so the rules will be different than HgvC. However, the 57th street property is in the HGVC system but has many rules that are different than standard HGVC properties. The points are different to reserve, the club reservation rules are different, the open season period is different, there is a housekeeping fee.

The hotel rates in NYC are higher than other locations which may warrant the Hilton resorts having diffent rules than other locations. If one doesn't like the rules whether for an RCI exchange or Club Reservations then don't book it like I don't. I see NYC has value, however, it is not one of my favorite places in the world. We live 70 miles from Manhattan and it is frankly too much trouble to deal with.

 

[bogey21]

I'm pissed that Hilton made the decision effective immediately impacting all existing reservations. I would have made a different choice if lounge access wasn't included. Now to make things even worst, it sounds like I'll lose my RCI exchange fee when I cancel.

As I posted on another thread, get used to it. The "Big Boys" will do whatever they think is in their best interest. It is why over 20 years ago I dumped my "Big Boy" Weeks and bought at Independent HOA Controlled Resorts where, in most cases, Management works with you rather than against you.

George

 

[PigsDad]

Seriously. .. for the most part, if you are exchanging into ny property, you are probably realizing a net benefit (mf plus exchange fees) of at least 50 percent on your mf.

Maybe, maybe not. Using a standard RCI account, a person may need to deposit two or three of their weeks to get enough TPUs to make the trade into a NYC property. Total MF plus exchange fees could easily be more than what the NYC owner pays for their unit.

Kurt

 

[buzglyd]

The primary point of my post was to warn others that lounge access is no longer available.

Keep in mind, lounge access has been available to everyone for 10+ years.
When I book my reservation approximately 8 months ago, I made my decision based on this access since the Hilton Club only offers a glorified hotel room (not a studio with a mini fridge, microwave, etc).

I'm pissed that Hilton made the decision effective immediately impacting all existing reservations. I would have made a different choice if lounge access wasn't included. Now to make things even worst, it sounds like I'll lose my RCI exchange fee when I cancel.

For those who don't know, it's simply continental breakfast and evening hors d'oeuvres with beverages. It was a nice option since the rooms don't offer what you would typically expected from a timeshare. It's not a feast and most folks weren't trying to stock pile or drink their weight in liquor

FWIW, I think you can request a mini-fridge and micro in your room.

There's a nice little wine shop over by Columbus circle where you can get better than Sycamore Creek.

 

[PigsDad]

I believe people here are confusing a property amenity associated with trading a fixed physical unit and amenities available to all (kitchen, landscaping, parking) with an elite perk which remains with the individual who paid a premium for such benefits (Food, Drinks, Gold HHonors, upgrades).

Justifying it as an elite perk is quite different than saying that exchangers cause additional expenses that shouldn't be included in owner's MFs.

The way HCNY did this stinks, though. If it really is an elite perk, why wasn't it an elite perk when the units were originally sold? If they wanted to change their perks, yanking it from existing exchange reservations is kind of low -- at least grandfather those exchangers in since, as alwysonvac stated, it was a contributing factor in deciding to make the exchange in the first place.

Kurt

 

[Jason245]

Maybe, maybe not. Using a standard RCI account, a person may need to deposit two or three of their weeks to get enough TPUs to make the trade into a NYC property. Total MF plus exchange fees could easily be more than what the NYC owner pays for their unit.

Kurt

Even if that were true, as a diamond HHonors who has gotten all these perks at hotels I can tell you that like airport lounges, they are more hype than substance.



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[MelanieB]

I agree with Jason245. Besides why would anyone new to NYC want to spend scarce vacation time elbowing for danish and cheap wine when you could go out and experience real NYC Hot Dogs, Bagels, pizza, Eataly etc.

I believe people here are confusing a property amenity associated with trading a fixed physical unit and amenities available to all (kitchen, landscaping, parking) with an elite perk which remains with the individual who paid a premium for such benefits (Food, Drinks, Gold HHonors, upgrades).

For example, if you are an Elite and trade your unit with me, I don't get to use your Elite perks to check in early, upgrades (or whatever else elite's get), I simply get to use your physical unit as you do mine. Similarly, lounge food services are an elite perk given to owners of HCNY, W. 57th, Las Vegas Boulevard Elite, and (possibly) Kingsland that remains with the individuals who paid a premium for it. How is this any different than hotels where elites get breakfast with their room. But others who don't have elite status or are not willing to pay for it don't?

Now if only they would serve better alcohol...

"Elite" perks are a sales tool devised and paid for by developers, in order to try to justify the absurd prices they charge. The developers must bear the ongoing cost of these perks, because they cannot expect owners who are not entitled to the use of those perks to subsidize the cost. If they tried to do that, lawsuits would undoubtably ensue.

My understanding is that's not the case here. (I could be wrong, in which case I'm sure someone will correct me.) Since lounge access is a benefit available to all owners, it is very likely paid for by owners, via maintenance fees. Therefore it is not a "perk", but an amenity of the accommodation, built into the operating costs of the property, just like any other ongoing expense.

As others have pointed out, exchanges are fundamentally simple trades. I get what you have, you get what I have. If, as the exchanger, you don't feel that my property (and its associated amenities) is of equal worth to yours... nobody is forcing you to trade.

What's essentially happening here is that the HCNY owners (indirectly) are saying "we want to trade, but we don't think any trade we make is equal value, so we're going to start excluding stuff from the terms of our trade." Which is valid, I suppose (same principle applies - as the person exchanging in, if you don't like the terms, don't trade), but it runs counter to the original spirit of exchanging, which is likely what has people upset.

For the record, I really don't care either way whether HCNY lounge access is available to non-owners or not. But as far as I know it's not a developer perk, so that comparison is just not valid.

 

[jestme]

HGVC already factors this in for everyone in the system. For example, at Lagoon Tower, 2 Bedroom Oceanfront Premier, or Penthouse units require more points to use than a 2 Bedroom plus or garden view unit. Newer units such as Grand Waikikian requires more points, 2 bedrooms are more than 1 bedrooms etc.

Keep in mind, physical amenities of the unit/property should not be confused with an individual's elite status perks. So if I trade with you to use your HGVC 2 bedroom penthouse, that does not entitle me to get free breakfast, HHonors gold, or late checkout associated with your personal Elite status. DVC and Worldmark have similar elite status programs, no? Hilton is a hotel chain and HGVC thinks like a hotel. Everyone gets to use the pool but only HHonors elites get free breakfast no matter what room in the hotel they happen to occupy because elite status is tied to the person not the room.

What I meant was to charge NYC owners more to exchange into resorts that are Ocean Front". It is a "perk" that they don't offer at their resort. If they want to eliminate perks at their NYC resort, then they should be willing to pay extra for the Oceanfront perks at mine.

 

[tschwa2]

What I meant was to charge NYC owners more to exchange into resorts that are Ocean Front". It is a "perk" that they don't offer at their resort. If they want to eliminate perks at their NYC resort, then they should be willing to pay extra for the Oceanfront perks at mine.

Deeded use of timeshare in view is not a perk, it is the deeded right. And by the way more and more timeshares downgrade exchangers into lesser views even though the owner may have deposited an ocean front unit.

I agree that exchanges booked prior to the change should be allowed access and/ or RCI should allow a free retrade and points refunded if the exchange was based on the lounge.

I think it kind of stinks to restrict perks and amenities (and views) for exchangers but if they are disclosed its your choice to not take the exchange.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Justifying it as an elite perk is quite different than saying that exchangers cause additional expenses that shouldn't be included in owner's MFs.

The way HCNY did this stinks, though. If it really is an elite perk, why wasn't it an elite perk when the units were originally sold? If they wanted to change their perks, yanking it from existing exchange reservations is kind of low -- at least grandfather those exchangers in since, as alwysonvac stated, it was a contributing factor in deciding to make the exchange in the first place.

Kurt

Actually the two are tied together. If it didn't cost money why would they care if exchangers used it or not? Here a simple example for 10 guests:

Food and Beverage Service (HCNY):

Week 1: 10 Owners x $20 (assumes fully loaded with staffing) x 7 days = $1400 cost of food

Week 2: 2 owners x $20 X 7 days = $280 cost of food
8 exchangers x 0 x 7 = 0


There fore $1400 - $280 = $ 1120 savings in food and staffing budget


Maintaining/cleaning Swimming Pool (RCI property)

Week 1: 10 owners = $500 (I made this number up. Pick any number)

Week 2: 2 owners + 8 exchangers = $500 Pool must be maintained no matter who is at the property.

This is what I mean by variable ($1400 week 1; $280 week2) vs fixed costs ($500 week 1 & 2).


AlwaysonVac: Sorry to hear about your situation as I did not know that they offered this for so long. They should have grandfathered those with reservations to phase it out. What's a few more months after 10 years?

I surmise that with learning from the RTU model, and new residences coming on line it seems they expecting more exchanges (esp. from HGVC Club reservations) so are applying a model similar to W. 57th. Like all travel benefits they are evolving elite programs over time usually resulting in a devaluation.

 

[SmithOp]

FWIW, I think you can request a mini-fridge and micro in your room.

There's a nice little wine shop over by Columbus circle where you can get better than Sycamore Creek.

Lol, I had lunch at CJ NY deli yesterday and there were several cases of Sycamore Creek Merlot stacked by the bar.

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[CalGalTraveler]

My understanding is that's not the case here. (I could be wrong, in which case I'm sure someone will correct me.) Since lounge access is a benefit available to all owners, it is very likely paid for by owners, via maintenance fees. Therefore it is not a "perk", but an amenity of the accommodation, built into the operating costs of the property, just like any other ongoing expense.

As others have pointed out, exchanges are fundamentally simple trades. I get what you have, you get what I have. If, as the exchanger, you don't feel that my property (and its associated amenities) is of equal worth to yours... nobody is forcing you to trade.

What's essentially happening here is that the HCNY owners (indirectly) are saying "we want to trade, but we don't think any trade we make is equal value, so we're going to start excluding stuff from the terms of our trade." Which is valid, I suppose (same principle applies - as the person exchanging in, if you don't like the terms, don't trade), but it runs counter to the original spirit of exchanging, which is likely what has people upset.

For the record, I really don't care either way whether HCNY lounge access is available to non-owners or not. But as far as I know it's not a developer perk, so that comparison is just not valid.

Your key phrase is "equal value" exchange.

So using your logic, then why don't HGVC owners get access to your RCI, DVC or Starwood Elite benefits and lounges when we stay on your property? Where's the quid pro quo? (and please don't tell me a kitchen is an "elite benefit.")

 

[Sandy VDH]

I called Hilton Club as I have an upcoming reservation. I was told by Erin that bookings made prior to June 1, 2016 will still honor that perk. Bookings made after June 1 St will be for Owners only, not even for HGVCLUB club members. Which is more like W 57th location rules.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Sorry your are all worked up!

I called Hilton Club as I have an upcoming reservation. I was told by Erin that bookings made prior to June 1, 2016 will still honor that perk. Bookings made after June 1 St will be for Owners only, not even for HGVCLUB club members. Which is more like W 57th location rules.

OK, not even HGVCLUB Owners. Only Owners at that Resort. I get it. I am sorry that you all don't get it and are all worked up about this. As I said previously New York City is different. I recognize it so it doesn't bother me. I just ignor it. I let them do there thing and I find better places to go. There are plenty of other nice places to go. If we all just ignored it (Not just timeshare people but hotel people) and went to other places it wouldn't bother us, but they(NYC people) would get it also.

 

[dominidude]

My advice:
Do not deposit your timeshare first, do request first OGS.

That way you can see what you are getting for your deposit before you relinquish it.

If you dont like it, then dont do the exchange

And if you bought your timeshare primarily to exchange it rather than use it, you have no right to complain :rofl:

 

[alwysonvac]

I called Hilton Club as I have an upcoming reservation. I was told by Erin that bookings made prior to June 1, 2016 will still honor that perk. Bookings made after June 1 St will be for Owners only, not even for HGVCLUB club members. Which is more like W 57th location rules.

Sandy, Thanks for the update.
This is the outcome that I would have expected for existing reservations.

 

[alwysonvac]

One size doesn't fit all

As I posted on another thread, get used to it. The "Big Boys" will do whatever they think is in their best interest. It is why over 20 years ago I dumped my "Big Boy" Weeks and bought at Independent HOA Controlled Resorts where, in most cases, Management works with you rather than against you.

George

Most companies do whatever is in their best interest which can be hotel chains, airlines, etc.
And like anything else, when enough is enough folks simply move on. Timeshares are no different.

I'm glad you found something that works for you but when I'm done I will be completely done with it
For me, timeshare are a means to an end. I'll simply move onto something else

 

[buzglyd]

Lol, I had lunch at CJ NY deli yesterday and there were several cases of Sycamore Creek Merlot stacked by the bar.

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First prize is one bottle of Sycamore Creek.

Second prize is two bottles.

 

[alwysonvac]

FWIW, I think you can request a mini-fridge and micro in your room.

There's a nice little wine shop over by Columbus circle where you can get better than Sycamore Creek.

Thanks Buzglyd

If we still decide to go, I might request the mini-fridge if that's available to exchangers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I would still GO!

Thanks Buzglyd

If we still decide to go, I might request the mini-fridge if that's available to exchangers.

Alwysonvac, I am the one who made the negative comments about New York City, and the New York Attitude, but if I were you I would still go. For all its faults New York has a lot to offer.
The museums, shows, restaurants, and other nightlife; some of which cannot be found in other locations, can be fun and rewarding. I did New York City when I was younger and experienced many things that I haven't been able to experience again. But my head is in a different place now. I go to museums in different cities. Gateway Theater for the Performing Arts is minutes from my house so my husband and I see five Broadway caliber shows each summer for a total of $400, and get home by 11:00 when it would 2 AM before we would get home from a NYC night show. There are more good restaurants where I live and vacation than I can keep up with. Our days of late nightlife are long over so what I considered the most unique aspect of New York City is no longer an attraction.

However, you must have wanted a New York City trip or you wouldn't have booked it initially. Don't let the owners lounge issue ruin what you had thought about doing, planned on doing, and wanted to do.

Go and have a great time.