[2011] Do you proof your TUG posts before you submit?

[Jaybee]

Thanks, Brian. I thought it covered a lot of territory, and I just got it, so of course it sounded perfect for this conversation.
I see in the new Timesharing Today, they're asking people to correct their grammar when they send in their articles. It's time consuming to have to correct all the to/too, they're/their, your.you're, etc. It's getting worse every day.

 

[MuranoJo]

Jaybee,
It was an appropriate fit to this thread.

I attended 2-room schoolhouses in the sticks until I was 13, and my older teachers were fussy about good grammar and spelling. It was like we were in the stone-age as we had 'spell-down' and 'cipher-down' contests up on the blackboard, while our counterparts in the cities were on to 'new' math. So, in college, I was tops in my English and Creative Writing courses.

It amazes me how my MBA+ co-workers cannot construct a sentence and can't spell. I've gotten to the point that it no longer really phases me, and I think I'm beginning to adapt to the point that I need to really proof all I write, and I still miss things--getting sloppy I guess.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

I've gotten to the point that it no longer really phases me, and I think I'm beginning to adapt to the point that I need to really proof all I write, and I still miss things--getting sloppy I guess.

Same here.

That stuff likewise no longer fazes me -- although the on-air goofs & flubs by the paid professional talkers on radio & TV are still semi-amazing to me. Likewise, there is no excuse for bad writing & syntax errors, etc., by professional writers & editors in books & newspapers & magazines & non-amateur internet sites.

It is a fact of editorial life that 1 place where errors are likely to crop up is in memos & articles about the importance of guarding against errors in writing.

That no longer fazes me either; it's just a fact of life.

BTW -- my late father (1916-2002) worked for a small-city newspaper that 1 day ran an inside double-page advertisement for a local haberdashery. Display type back then was all hand-set. Proofreaders, then & now, apparently check blocks of small-size text more carefully than lines of large display type. Across the top of the double-page ad, in huge capital letters, the ad was intended to say . . .

GIGANTIC SHIRT SALE​

. . . except that somehow the letter "R" got left out.

Dad said the top dogs at his paper sent him over to the haberdashery to apologize on behalf of the paper, & to offer to make it right. The idea was that because my dad was young, & married with a small child, the store people would take pity & perhaps accept his apology on behalf of the newspaper instead of resorting to legal action against the publisher.

Dad said that when he got there to apologize for the horrid mistake, which he swore was merely a careless oversight that was in no way intentional, the store owner was not 1 bit angry. "We sold every shirt we had in the store by 10:15 this morning," the haberdasher said. "We were thinking we ought to see if we can get you to print our double-truck ad exactly the same way next year."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Jaybee]

ROTFLOL! (If you'll pardon the disrespect for the language). Alan, you are so funny.

I agree with your distaste for the inexcusable errors made in print, by so-called professional folk. I fear that actual editors may be a dying breed.

 

[pjrose]

My iPad often 'corrects' what I've typed with words I never intended, and I find I have to cross check everything I write with it. Some of the changes it makes are hilarious...like the three I had to manually change in this shirt post.

And the shirt you didn't change to short? After reading Alan's post about the SHIRT with no "R" sale, this is even funnier - just think how your iPad could have "corrected" shirt for you!

 

[SueDonJ]

I re-read everything I type, hit the Preview button, make changes, hit the Preview button again, make changes, Preview again, Submit, re-read, play the "beat the edit clock" game to make more changes, close out all the windows, re-read, try the game again, make more changes, curse when the game beats me, go back and put some foolish "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police" or "DOH! moment" or "forgot the link" or ... or ... or reason for editing ...

It's a never-ending cycle and nothing gets on my nerves more than re-reading an old post of mine that someone has resurrected and finding spelling or grammar errors, or realizing that there's a better way to put into words what I was trying to say.

That's my OCD - writing. It's been my OCD since I first wrote book reports back in third grade. And it doesn't matter if it's a To-Do List, a post on TUG, or something important - I'm doomed to use too many words, and to edit it in my head forever after.

 

[pedro47]

In answer to the original question, no, not usually, but this thread reminded me to do so today!

Ditto and ditto !!!!

 

[MichaelColey]

GIGANTIC SHIRT SALE

. . . except that somehow the letter "R" got left out.

It's a pretty common typo:

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1130110#post1130110

 

[pjrose]

I re-read everything I type, hit the Preview button, make changes, hit the Preview button again, make changes, Preview again, Submit, re-read, play the "beat the edit clock" game to make more changes, close out all the windows, re-read, try the game again, make more changes, curse when the game beats me, go back and put some foolish "Spelling Police" or "Grammar Police" or "DOH! moment" or "forgot the link" or ... or ... or reason for editing ...

It's a never-ending cycle and nothing gets on my nerves more than re-reading an old post of mine that someone has resurrected and finding spelling or grammar errors, or realizing that there's a better way to put into words what I was trying to say.

That's my OCD - writing. It's been my OCD since I first wrote book reports back in third grade. And it doesn't matter if it's a To-Do List, a post on TUG, or something important - I'm doomed to use too many words, and to edit it in my head forever after.

If you see a grammatical or spelling error in a book or magazine, do you correct it? I do . My colleagues soon found out that asking me to "look over" something meant I'd get out the red pen .

 

[AwayWeGo]

Beyond Correction.

If you see a grammatical or spelling error in a book or magazine, do you correct it? I do . My colleagues soon found out that asking me to "look over" something meant I'd get out the red pen

The respected & well educated leader of a volunteer organization that we both belonged to wrote a history of the organization. When he completed the writing & editing & proofreading, he asked me to "look over" the finished text just as a final check before the book went to press.

Going over the whole thing carefully showed that it was extremely close to error-free. (I might have found 1 actual but semi-trivial "error," but so what?)

The author was surprised & astonished to get the book back all marked up. "I went over it very carefully," he said. "I didn't realize it had that much wrong with it."

Nothing was "wrong" with it, I explained. All the mark-up (except for that 1 "error") was strictly editorial suggestions, not corrections -- i.e., ways of getting the author's ideas across more clearly, less ambiguously, in simpler & more familiar & less formal style, to make it easier to read.

I said I expected he would find each marked suggestion self-explanatory, & that he should disregard any of'm that he didn't like. He said OK & thanked me in a tentative & semi-dubious way, & went home with the mark-up.

Next day, the author called me up & thanked me again, expressing appreciation that I had added clarity & readability to his book without compromising his tone or making it sound like somebody else had written it. He said the editorial suggestions were helpful & made a big difference.

Years later, a friend we've known since our kids (hers & ours) were in Sunday school took on the self-assigned task of amanuensis & editor of an autobiography by a colorful West Point general who wanted to get his life story in print before his terminal illness cut short the opportunity.

It was a big job.

She started by taping hours & hours & days & days of conversations with the general, in which he reminisced & told stories, starting more or less at the beginning but also digressing & changing directions in the middle of a tale, just as any of us would be apt to do.

When the general declared that the whole story had been recorded, the next job was transcribing all the tapes, a major undertaking in itself. Next was organizing and arranging the hundreds of pages, in an attempt to turn all those rambling recollections into a coherent (& consistent) story.

That was an even bigger job.

Eventually the outline & form of a respectable & readable book could be seen, once the duplications were cut & the disjointed accounts of various events were spliced. Pictures from the general's trunkful of photos were added, and before much longer a credible & creditable book took shape.

I had no involvement in any of that, but from hearing The Chief Of Staff's side of many phone conversations with the book editor (&, in effect, the "as told to" co-author), I could see what was coming.

After a few more weeks, just as I guessed, the author declared that the book was done & asked me to "look over" the finished text just as a final check before the book went to press.

I could hardly refuse, so I bent to the task right away -- because by then it was uncertain whether the book could be completed & printed before the general reached the end of the trail.

The result was a virtual replay of what happened with the organizational history I had been asked to "look over" years before. There were very few mistakes (i.e., "errors") in the book telling the general's life story, but there were lots & lots of places where a little deft trimming or minor rephrasing or word reordering, etc., would add to the book's clarity & readability.

That's what I told our friend when she was semi-aghast at how heavily I had marked up what she thought was practically a finished product. As with the earlier book, I said I expected she would find each marked suggestion self-explanatory, & that she should disregard any she didn't like. As before, she liked & accepted practically all the suggestions once she took a close look.

(The general passed away just about the time the presses started rolling. Cartons of his autobiography were brought to his military send-off at Arlingtion National Cemetery, where his mortal remains were laid to rest side by side with those of his late father, also a West Point general.)

Those mark-up stories help illustrate why editing, including self-editing, goes way beyond proofreading. During my working days, a few times (not many, thank God) I had finished drafts handed in to me that were 100% error-free even though there was nothing right or usable in them anywhere from start to finish. Not only that, those draft documents would not edit & could not be made usable by marking them up. I would be closer to having a usable document with a fresh stack of blank stationery in front of me than with what had been handed in as a finished work assignment.

Unsurprisingly, the people responsible for such execrable work had no idea what was the matter. If they did have any clue, they wouldn't have written so poorly -- so beyond poor.

One of those non-writing writers apparently believed that because she had an official U.S. civil service position description certifying her as a GS-12 Writer-Editor, everything she wrote was therefore by definition professional & professional quality writing. (I have also known PhDs who seemed to believe that because of their advanced degrees, anything they said or thought or wrote was therefore by definition intelligent & smart & better than anything said or thought or written by any non-PhD, case closed. But that's another story.)

In short, it's thinking that's difficult. By comparison, writing is easy.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ace2000]

Alan, I noticed you had to edit that previous post. Are you slipping a bit???

Seriously, thanks for being a part of this thread. You've given me a lot of food for thought and I just remembered I still have to dive into the earlier links you provided.

Thanks!

 

[AwayWeGo]

A Bit? That Is An Understatement.

I noticed you had to edit that previous post. Are you slipping a bit?

Slipping. Bigtime.

I clicked the "send in" button when I intended to click the "preview" button.

Revision & rewriting done much after that count as "edits" far as the vBulletin software is concerned.

(Not that there's anything wrong with editing.)

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[pjrose]

. . . West Point general who wanted to get his life story in print before his terminal illness cut short the opportunity.

. . .

She started by taping hours & hours & days & days of conversations . . . the next job was transcribing all the tapes, a major undertaking in itself. . . .

Eventually the outline & form of a respectable & readable book could be seen. . .

Alan, my father was a West Point General whose memoirs were recorded by a Major(?) who turned them into a book. The process was similar to what you described, though my mother was unhappy that the writer/editor used some words and expressions that dad never would have used, so parts weren't in his "voice".

He, too, is in Arlington, and his memoirs are at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle.

 

[AwayWeGo]

R. H. I. P.

Alan, my father was a West Point General whose memoirs were recorded by a Major(?) who turned them into a book. The process was similar to what you described, though my mother was unhappy that the write/editor used some words and expressions that dad never would have used, so parts weren't in his "voice".

He, too, is in Arlington, and his memoirs are at the Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle.

I'm guessing the working relationship between a general & a major is somewhat different from the give & take between a general & a successful & independent-minded civilian woman who does not take any baloney.

That is to say, a major's customary response to a general is, "Yes, sir."

By contrast, an independent-minded non-military woman is more apt to tell the general, "Now hold on there just 1 minute."

Rank hath its privileges, but they go only so far.

Full Disclosure: I was in the army 1965-68. (Made E-5). My sister married an ROTC air force officer who retired as full colonel. Of us 8 guys who hung around together in high school, 7 served in the military & 5 were career officers -- 1 each in the army, navy, marines, air force, & coast guard, all OCS or the equivalent. The other guy who served an enlisted hitch was in the air force 4 years. His older brother did a 2-year hitch as an army draftee. Five of the original crew of 8 are still living & still in touch with 1 another. My father's sister was married to an army master sergeant. One of their daughters served a 4-year hitch in the air force & 1 of their sons got drafted into the army (served 2 years).

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[ace2000]

Alan, my father was a West Point General

Wow, impressive! Seriously, I have a great amount of respect for anyone that has attained the rank of general in our Armed Forces. That is great accomplishment, and I've never even met one myself.

 

[pjrose]

Wow, impressive! Seriously, I have a great amount of respect for anyone that has attained the rank of general in our Armed Forces. That is great accomplishment, and I've never even met one myself.

Off Topic (so what else is new?) but he made Brigadier General when I was six, and retired as Lieutenant General when I was in college. Depending on where we were stationed, he was often the Commanding General of the post. As far as I can remember, I was the "General's Daughter" and was often presumed to have extra privileges etc. HA! I wasn't allowed to get away with anything lest it reflect badly on him.

He had a great sense of humor; one day when he was off duty and working in our garden on post, a little boy wandered by and asked what his name was. Dad said "Zilch." A day or so later, the boy and his father walked by and the boy said "Hi Zilch!". Apparently the lower-ranking father about had a cow

 

[ace2000]

Off Topic (so what else is new?) but he made Brigadier General when I was six, and retired as Lieutenant General when I was in college. Depending on where we were stationed, he was often the Commanding General of the post. As far as I can remember, I was the "General's Daughter" and was often presumed to have extra privileges etc. HA! I wasn't allowed to get away with anything lest it reflect badly on him.

He had a great sense of humor; one day when he was off duty and working in our garden on post, a little boy wandered by and asked what his name was. Dad said "Zilch." A day or so later, the boy and his father walked by and the boy said "Hi Zilch!". Apparently the lower-ranking father about had a cow

That's a great story!

 

[MuranoJo]

Alan,
Your #53 gently let me know I made a mistake in my #52. That was pretty smooth of you.
OMG, after getting a bit puffy about my writing skills--that will teach me! :hysterical: And too late to edit of course.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Smooth Is My Middle Name.

That was pretty smooth of you.

I'm just going through a phase.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[MuranoJo]

I've been ratted out!! Should have set it up as a contest to see who found it first.

 

[pjrose]

I've been ratted out!! Should have set it up as a contest to see who found it first.

I noticed it, but wasn't quite sure it was wrong. I read so much "studentese" that some common misspellings start to look correct

 

[AwayWeGo]

Close Only Counts In Horseshoes & Hand Grenades.

I noticed it, but wasn't quite sure it was wrong.

Mark Twain said the difference between the right word & almost the right word is like the difference between the lightning & the lightning bug.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[pjrose]

I thought "faze" was a fairly new word, a variation of "phase," but looked it up and found that it is American, from 1820-30, a form of "feeze". "Feeze" refers to "a state of vexation or worry" with a Middle English origin. (Dictionary.com)

 

[AwayWeGo]

Proofreading Tips From A Pro. (Proofing Your Own Stuff, That Is.)

Any tricks out there?

Professional tips from Kathy Shaidle . . .

It’s almost impossible to proofread your own work, but you also want to submit the best copy or article (or report to your boss) that you can.

Here’s how I get around that:

If I have an assignment due Tuesday morning, I take one last look at it Monday night, then sleep on it.

On Tuesday morning, I open the Word doc and immediately change the size and type of the font.

If I wrote the article in Verdana, I change it to a serif font like Times, then bump it up two sizes.

I may even switch the text to blue, green, or red.

This tricks my brain into reading the piece as if for the first time. Inevitably, I notice a typo, factual error, overused word, or awkward sentence.

I may also incorporate any overnight brainstorms.

Plus I may realize, to my embarrassment, that I forgot to include the joke or factoid that sold the editor on my idea in the first place, or that I didn’t use the client’s SEO keywords often enough.

After I make these corrections, I change the fonts back to normal and send it to my client or editor.

Doing this has improved the quality of my writing exponentially. It certainly gives everything I write a more professional polish.


Click here for the complete article, which is mainly about what it takes to succeed at free-lance writing.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[AwayWeGo]

Final Resting Place At Arlington National Cemetery.

The general passed away just about the time the presses started rolling. Cartons of his autobiography were brought to his military send-off at Arlingtion National Cemetery, where his mortal remains were laid to rest side by side with those of his late father, also a West Point general.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​