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Incidents on planes are tense, but 'pajama pants' ?

Police are very hesitant to arrest people like me...while my spelling is a bit off when typing online...i'm educated, come from well off stock, well versed in what is and isn't illegal, am completely non-violent and really able to act more interested then controversal while dealing with 'authority figures'...its important to always phrase things as questions when dealing with the police and sound interested in what they are saying, never correct them but make statements like 'really? I thought it was ....?' or 'Huh, where is that posted?'

Maybe under normal circumstances - but on an airplane that all changes. If you defy the captain, you are toast.
 
The problem as i see it...is that the consumer and the voter...are the ones in power...but they don't realize it...Because one flight attendent decided she didn't like how this consumer was dressed and looked because of it he was thrown off the plane..

You are carefully avoiding one point - when he was asked to pull up his pants "he pulled them all the way down." So it wasn't just the way he was dressed - it was his defiant response to that request.

IF the other passengers on the plane realized that by standing up and saying something they could have stopped this injustice i'm sure they would have

You are kidding yourself here. Your average traveler does NOT what his business trip/vacation delayed for hours for something so silly and superficial. And your average traveler certainly is not going to put themselves in jeopardy for a complete stranger who is delaying the flight over something really unnecessary. If I was on his plane I would have been furious to have my trip delayed by something so stupid!

Here is what is going to happen: His university & team has had him on the rack for several days now. He is going to come out with a "heartfelt" admission that he used very poor judgment and apologize profusely, and promise never to do it again. His university & team will also give him specific directions about how to dress and act in public in the future, and if he values his football career, and his scholarship, he will follow them.
 
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You are carefully avoiding one point - when he was asked to pull up his pants "he pulled them all the way down." So it wasn't just the way he was dressed - it was his defiant response to that request.

Hehe...shh! Don't tell anyone, i was intentionally avoiding that point...What kind of an ignorant child acts like....Well nevermind, let me just say, that was about the stupidest thing he could have done in that situation...you don't intentionally push on people that are ready and able to push back harder, sometimes its better to go around...as a football player he should have understood that, but maybe he was a lineman...
 
Hehe...shh! Don't tell anyone, i was intentionally avoiding that point...What kind of an ignorant child acts like....Well nevermind, let me just say, that was about the stupidest thing he could have done in that situation...you don't intentionally push on people that are ready and able to push back harder, sometimes its better to go around...as a football player he should have understood that, but maybe he was a lineman...

Ride - THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU YET! :D
 
Couple more interesting notes in the latest news on this story:

After he as taken off the plane, Marman physically resisted arrest and was put in a prone position (on the floor) and an office was injured in the scuffle.

He has an outstanding drug warrant for possession of marijuana in Santa Clara County. For his college and team, that may be an even bigger issue.

I wonder if he knew about the warrant? - you'd think he'd want to keep a low profile in the Bay Area.
 
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The problem as i see it...is that the consumer and the voter...are the ones in power...but they don't realize it...Because one flight attendent decided she didn't like how this consumer was dressed and looked because of it he was thrown off the plane...IF the other passengers on the plane realized that by standing up and saying something they could have stopped this injustice i'm sure they would have, no one under 35-40(the majority of America) finds saggy pants offensive, we grew up watching all our idles dressing like that...but the problem is that we are taught all through school to not question 'authority' and we are told that the 'authorities' are those with badges and/or uniforms when thats just not accurate...in fact each one of us is the authority
You're working from false assumptions. Perhaps few males in the under 35 age group find saggy pants offensive, but just ask any of the women in my neighborhood, including the high school girls, and while they might not find it offensive per se, they all think it's stupid. You can tell which of the young men in the HS aren't dating regularly - they're the ones with the saggy pants, because the girls all tell their boyfriends to pull them up. They don't want to be seen with them otherwise. Females make up 51% of the population, so where are you getting your majority?

You are right that consumers and voters do have a certain amount of power - but most of them choose not to use it. As a voter, you have the right to elect someone else (or in rare cases of misconduct, to remove someone from office). As a consumer you can vote with your money. He chose to fly home on that airplane, and in doing so, he agrees to play by their rules - just as all of us exchanging through RCI agree to play the exchange game by their rules. If he did not wish to follow the instructions of the flight crew, he had the ability to leave, and take a different flight - one on which the crew would allow him to wear what he wanted the way he wanted.

OK, you don't care about a t-shirt saying something about being a sex offender. What of a white supremacist wearing a shirt saying all blacks should be hung, with a graphic of someone hanging from a tree and the KKK watching holding torches. Maybe one 10% of the population would find it personally offensive, but I bet we could agree the majority of people would find it generally offensive. As I constantly tell the girls in my Girl Scout troop, it's not about what you do, but how you do it. Even if he was speaking politely, he was still disrespecting authority. You have every right to choose to do so, but you then must live with the consequences.

Police are very hesitant to arrest people like me...while my spelling is a bit off when typing online...i'm educated, come from well off stock, well versed in what is and isn't illegal, am completely non-violent and really able to act more interested then controversal while dealing with 'authority figures'...its important to always phrase things as questions when dealing with the police and sound interested in what they are saying, never correct them but make statements like 'really? I thought it was ....?' or 'Huh, where is that posted?'
I don't know where you live that you would think this. Most of our local police would take that type of behavior as elitist, and be more likely to find some reason to throw you in jail. If you always phrase things as questions, then you are questioning their authority, and their knowledge of their job - likely to get you charged with obstruction or even resisting arrest. You remind me of why I don't socialize with my youngest daughter's parents, and why I won't lead another kindergarten troop - not because they are so young, but because their parents are (they're under 35). It's not just the pants, it's a general disrespect for society. The rules aren't written for them, and certainly not for their children.
 
Hehe...shh! Don't tell anyone, i was intentionally avoiding that point...What kind of an ignorant child acts like....Well nevermind, let me just say, that was about the stupidest thing he could have done in that situation...you don't intentionally push on people that are ready and able to push back harder, sometimes its better to go around...as a football player he should have understood that, but maybe he was a lineman...

Ride - you crack me up, and I think you just like a little controversy in riling up the "older folks" on this site.

I think you might find that many of them were rebels in their day, just as you were. After all, every generation has their rebels. Flappers in the 20's, pin-up girls for the soldiers going to WW2, those who started smoking, girls wearing PANTS!! like Katherine Hepburn, then the leather jackets of the 50's, mini skirts and hippy hair in the 60's. the list goes on. Going to high school in the late 70's to early 80's, we made fun of the "preppies," wore extremely short shorts and tube tops, then watched in a little shock as Madonna got her wanna-be's (which tended to be middle school girls -even tho she was older) wearing sexy underwear as outerwear. I was one of those with blue eyeshadow, bright blush, etc. Then graduated to high heeled boots at clubs with a long shirt with a wide belt. (no skirt/shorts/but did have pantyhose on) Yet would also wear longer flouncy skirts and pony tail.
And dated people who would have been hippies had they been born sooner.

I still find the pants on the ground style silly and a bit offensive. It seems to me to be a bit unhygenic as well - that's what bothers me. Boxers are loose, and the junk is flopping. (excuse my directness) And kids can't even walk - just waddle as someone else said - and one hand is always used to keep them from completely fouling up their feet. I think that while you wouldn't mind seeing a cute young thing wearing her thong out, you'd object to an unattractive, or older, or less firm person dressed only in their underwear!

And ultimately, I don't want my daughters having to see people dressed this way. Or eventually dating someone who dresses this way. It's hard enough letting them wear bikini's (moderate coverage - not the itsy, bitsy ones) at the beach, as I notice them getting looks now. They are only 10 and 12. I would not be comfortable having them sit next to a young man in his underwear - and they wouldn't like it either. And regardless of what you say here - I know you would not allow your 5 year old DD sit next to a man wearing a shirt proclaiming any proclivity to sex offenders. On a plane?? for a few hours? Yeah, right. where are his hands?? Sorry, but things change when it's your own kid.

I try to give my girls some leeway, but certain things are not appropriate at their age, and other things will never be appropriate for them to wear. But then you get the other side... My older daughter was told that "jeggings" are considered skin tight and not appropriate in her Catholic school on "free dress" days. It never dawned on me that they'd be a problem as it's a common look for pre-teens in this area and I have no problem with how she looks in them. :shrug: She's fine with not being able to wear them to school - those are their house rules. It was posted in the handbook, we just didn't think about it. Shoot, last year we found out that our principal considered high tops to be "boots" and therefore not allowed, even though they were the right color for athletic shoes and are a sneaker, not a "boot."
Again, it didn't seem worth it to argue the point. It hasn't hurt their ability to express themselves as individuals. They can do that outside of the classroom. I'm sure more and more that their choices will not always be mine, but I think they have good judgement for the most part, and they know the house rules. They also understand there's a time and place for protest. An airplane is not a good place to make a stand...

Anyway, I also wouldn't be comfortable having Lady Gaga sitting next to me, my DD's or my husband in some of her outfits. It's fine, I guess, for the stage, but not for general wear. You already agree that certain clothes are inappropriate for work. For the flight attendant - that is her workplace.

Anyway, thanks for entertaining reading....:ponder:
 
The problem as i see it...is that the consumer and the voter...are the ones in power...but they don't realize it...Because one flight attendent decided she didn't like how this consumer was dressed and looked because of it he was thrown off the plane...IF the other passengers on the plane realized that by standing up and saying something they could have stopped this injustice i'm sure they would have, no one under 35-40(the majority of America) finds saggy pants offensive, we grew up watching all our idles dressing like that...but the problem is that we are taught all through school to not question 'authority' and we are told that the 'authorities' are those with badges and/or uniforms when thats just not accurate...in fact each one of us is the authority

This really cracked me up. Not where I live. My 21 y/o son & all of his friends think these people are idiots. So much for the "majority".

Maybe it's time to put down the pipe. :wave:
 
i love my spelling of rediculous! I think you'll find it fits my posting style very well once you get to know me

Now onto your question...I don't really believe that an Actual Child molester would wear a shirt that said 'i'm a child molester' no more then i believe everyone wearing a cross believes god created the world in seven days....But what it would make me do is keep a better eye on that person(in both cases)...


Now do i believe that we should make it illegal to wear shirts like that? Absolutely not! The freedom of expression and freedom of speech aren't just limited to please and thank you...they allow people to express their thoughts and beliefs even if those beliefs are controversial to some....I'm against school uniforms also...it restricts a childs ability to express themselves and learn to be an individual...some of the greatest things a child can learn in school isn't what is taught in the outdated misinformed textbooks, but in the social interactions that come because of who they are and how they dress

I think some of the suggestions here could very well end with a National Dress Code, Fashion Police Rooming the streets making sure your shirt is ironed and socks are regulation length...i don't want to live in a nation where there is no individuality and its not worth risking that freedom because i see a person dressed in a way i don't like

Ride,

Just for clarification, I am a big hulking dude who is not considered caucasion. Wife also reminds me that I need to be aware of how many people may feel intimidated when in the same room (even in my old age). Having a younger white wife sometimes even makes it worse.

Now, I don't know how old your child is. My hunch is that she is old enough to read. I also know that if that guy with the T-shirt and child molester on it sits next to you and daughter or walks down the aisle of the plane towards you, you are going to make sure that your daughter is not going to feel intimidated with that guy's shirt. Have a hunch you would tell the ignoramus a few choice words to protect your child and her feelings.

I also know that you truly love being the devil's advocate. I understand that it takes one to know one. :)
 
Ride,Now, I don't know how old your child is. My hunch is that she is old enough to read.

She's 5(six in november), so she's just starting to put letters together into words...i've got to admit, the thought of her asking me 'daddy, what does m-o-l-e-s-t-e-r spell?' creeps me out a bit


I also know that you truly love being the devil's advocate. I understand that it takes one to know one.

i've definatly been having alot more fun in this thread then i should :D
 

You know what I find most funny about this picture? This is a group of people who would stage a huge protest if their school required uniforms. They are about freedom of self expression, right?

So, how come they all are dressed THE SAME??????:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
 
A shirt is a shirt...if the title on a book cover says "This is a TV" does that make it so?? Not so much anything goes...we have decency laws that make alot of sense in america, some are a bit extreme but most of the time they're fairly good...obviously you shouldn't be walking around a school yard in the buff but does it really matter what a shirt says as long as it covers the no-no parts?

Meh, sometimes i'm too liberal?

This is one of the definitions of liberal:

"The term "social liberalism" is often used interchangeably with "modern liberalism".[9] The Liberal International is the main international organisation of liberal parties, which include, among other liberal variants, social liberal parties. It affirms the following principles: human rights, free and fair elections and multiparty democracy, social justice, tolerance, social market economy, free trade, environmental sustainability and a strong sense of international solidarity.[10]

From my liberal viewpoint, you are free to have your opinion and free to express your opinion. I am free to tell you I believe that you are wrong. Tombo is free to tell you to pull up your pants. The airline is free to tell you that you aren't allowed on their airplane unless your pants are pulled up. The other passengers on the plane are free to express their opinion including being either tolerant of your exposed underwear or offended by your exposed underwear. And if you disagree, you are free to express your disagreement by leaving.

No one told the man that he could not fly. He was free to fly as long as he pulled up his pants.

The fact is that there are rules. One of the rules is that pilots of airplanes, like captains of ships, are the final arbiters of what will or will not happen on their plane. So, the pilot is free to have the offender removed.

elaine
 
The one thing I cannot get out of my mind, and I know others are thinking it as well, but back in the day, not long ago, flying was a dressy occasion, all about how NICE we could look. We wore dresses, heels, and had our hair coiffed...

I just had a phone conversation with Brucecz yesterday, and we talked about the change in our attitudes about flying, and how we think $400 for a flight to Orlando from Denver is too much (I was griping about it), and he said, "Hey, that same flight cost $300 in 1968 or so." So true, and look how the dollar has gone up. Airfare is cheap. You could buy a Ford Mustage for $3K back in 1968, and now what would you pay?

Now we wear pajama pants with underwear showing, because flying is just what you do to get from point A and point B. Nothing special about it for most of us. No more road trips, when people can avoid it.

I am not liberal, but I respect your right to say anything you want on this subject, Ride. I am getting a kick out of the thread.
 
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i've definatly been having alot more fun in this thread then i should :D

You have actually done a fairly good job of debating the issues, and avoiding "trollish" behavior in this thread. :clap:

When you debate the issues logically, people will respond in kind, and it's a lot more fun than being called a troll and being kicked to the curb. ;)
 
Freedom of expression has been bantered about on this thread. Some feel more strongly about it than others (I won't go any deeper than that).

But here's the thing about freedom of expression. In the 60's, we had a bunch of teenagers rebelling against their parents, the establishment, the "man". They were all "free thinkers", etc, you get the picture. Yet, if you look at pictures from the 60's, what do you see? Everyone, all these people fighting for freedom of expression, all dressed the same, acting the same, listening to the same music, etc.

Fast forward to the 90's when I went to college. There was the grunge look. Another "rebellious" moment. And there day after day on my college campus I saw thousands of kids milling about, all dressed exactly the same.

How expressive is it when you look just like everyone else you hang with??:shrug:
 
Was it mentioned anywhere another possibility for the guy not complying with the simple request to pull up his pants is being an athlete maybe he feels he has special privileges? :ignore:
 
I believe the "freedom of expression" thing is just a simple cry of "hey, everyone, LOOK AT ME!!"

Remember Goths? How about people with multiple face piercings?

Look at me!!!

There's something missing in their lives. Attention, and likely, unfortunately, love.
 
She's 5(six in november), so she's just starting to put letters together into words...i've got to admit, the thought of her asking me 'daddy, what does m-o-l-e-s-t-e-r spell?' creeps me out a bit




i've definatly been having alot more fun in this thread then i should :D

Just to add another thought about you. My strong hunch is that if you were in front of the plane or had seen the guy with the T shirt about being a molester before boarding, you would have explained to the ignoramus that the T shirt is going on board. Not only for your child, but for the other children that would be on the plane.

Isn't it a wonderful thing to be able to debate these issues and have your own words and expressions to be used to against your arguments? Most importantly, isn't it great to be able to discuss our thoughts without anyone's thoughts or expression being accused as "silly?"
 
Ride has a new drama developing in his life. His new timeshare deed was perhaps recorded listing the wrong resort (well, at least he did think he brought that resort).
 
Did you meant to post:

you would have explained to the ignoramus that the T shirt is [not] going on board.
 
What the kid failed to understand is that, in our society, those who run the show pretty much own your butt and, whatever you may think about it, you either play by their rules or you'll be watching from the sidelines.

If the kid was whitewater rafting and repeatedly failed to follow the leader's instructions, he'd be watching from the shoreline pretty darn quick... as I understand happened to some drunken sailors on the Gauley.
 
If the young man can't follow the simple request such as "pull up your pants," how do you know he would follow any other requests that might have to be made throughout the flight.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
 
The one thing I cannot get out of my mind, and I know others are thinking it as well, but back in the day, not long ago, flying was a dressy occasion, all about how NICE we could look. We wore dresses, heels, and had our hair coiffed...
Yup, that's what I was thinking, too.
 
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