Valuating Timeshares for Estate Probate?

[NJWolfpacker]

My Mom passed away and owned (fully paid for) two Hyatt timeshares - an annual one in Key West and a bi-annual one in Bonita Springs. I believe both are considered ‘gold’ level as the weeks are in early November for Key West and late September for Bonita Springs.

How should these be valued for her estate holdings to go through Probate? Is there an actual source to use (Hyatt?) or do I look to see what sales listings may be on the open market?

I will assume that the realistic value of these will be low (if any).

Thank you for any help and/or ideas.

 

[Janann]

Hyatt won't help you, because then they would have to admit that the resale price is hardly anything.

I would think that ads for similar units from a few different sources would be considered adequate proof of the market value.

 

[ChicagoDave]

Sorry to hear about your mother passing away. Redweek.com is probably your best source for trying to find comparable listings/sales. In all honesty, the gold weeks have little to no value now with the recent changes to the Interval International point exchange table, the big increase in maintenance fees for FL timeshares and the ongoing litigation at Coconut Cove. You maybe better off not taking ownership and giving the deeds back to Hyatt if that’s an option. Also, if Hyatt doesn’t want them, then post them for free on TUG classifieds or list for $1 in an eBay auction. That will at least force the company to exercise ROFR or the sale goes thru and you’ll be done with them.

 

[VacationForever]

Realistic value = $0. Look at eBay completed listings.

 

[bdh]

The value of the November Key West week depends on which property it is located at. Is the week at Sunset Harbor, Beach House or Windward Pointe?

 

[AJCts411]

Don;t know anything about Bonita Springs. Your November week in Key West does have a value. At HSH I would suggest a "all in" resale price of 8500. "all in" - maintenance fees paid, years use included, Hyatt 650 transfer fees paid, closing (300) paid. My guess is that ROFR would be exercised at 4 to 5000 range. The other 2 properties are similar in value.

 

[ScoopKona]

I wouldn't go as high as $8,500. November is a Gold week, not Diamond. It used to be Bronze, and then everyone was upgraded back when Hyatt was still a great company.

Since it's the gubmint, it's not what is reasonable, it's what you can prove. So I would keep scouring eBay completed listings, red-week listings, and just ask around here "Anyone recently buy at SH/BH/WP? What did you pay?" If you grovel to the right person at the city of Key West Property Records Department (not Monroe County), they might help. But probably not. Plugging in the property address into their property records website yields nothing -- and never has. IIRC, transfers and sales were handled in bulk every month or two.

Also, I 100% agree that Sunset Harbor is worth more than BH and WP. My SWAG, back of the envelope, is the BH and WP are worth 50%-75% of a similar SH week -- location.

 

[GTLINZ]

The Nov KW week should have some value (thousands) but that value very much depends on which location. Scoop's estimate comparison sounds reasonable.

The Sept Coconut Cove week is bronze and EOY and likely has no resale value but a Tugger may be willing to take it if posted in free timeshares. The owner may or may not have to cover some of the closing costs and transfer fee. The ongoing legal battles there are not helpful.

Both are being bitten by the rising MFs/reserves issues due to the hurricanes.

 

[bdh]

I wouldn't go as high as $8,500. November is a Gold week, not Diamond. It used to be Bronze, and then everyone was upgraded back when Hyatt was still a great company.

Since it's the gubmint, it's not what is reasonable, it's what you can prove. So I would keep scouring eBay completed listings, red-week listings, and just ask around here "Anyone recently buy at SH/BH/WP? What did you pay?" If you grovel to the right person at the city of Key West Property Records Department (not Monroe County), they might help. But probably not. Plugging in the property address into their property records website yields nothing -- and never has. IIRC, transfers and sales were handled in bulk every month or two.

Also, I 100% agree that Sunset Harbor is worth more than BH and WP. My SWAG, back of the envelope, is the BH and WP are worth 50%-75% of a similar SH week -- location.

If the November KW week is at SH during power boat week and if it's an upper floor building 5 unit, the price would be north of $10K. If the week is after power boat week, the price range is in the $7K to $8K depending on the unit location.

If the KW week is at BH or WP, the price range is more like $3K to $4K.

Here's a reference point for the variance in prices at Hyatt's properties in KW - even a peak at Coconut Cove. https://www.keywestfltimeshare.com/units-for-sale

 

[bdh]

Realistic value = $0. Look at eBay completed listings.

If a low/no value is desired for estate reasons, using eBay as a reference point will work. However the actual value will be higher than $0.

 

[bdh]

Don;t know anything about Bonita Springs. Your November week in Key West does have a value. At HSH I would suggest a "all in" resale price of 8500. "all in" - maintenance fees paid, years use included, Hyatt 650 transfer fees paid, closing (300) paid. My guess is that ROFR would be exercised at 4 to 5000 range. The other 2 properties are similar in value.

FWIW: Hyatt/MVW is not exercising ROFR at Sunset Harbor regardless of price.

 

[ScoopKona]

If the November KW week is at SH during power boat week and if it's an upper floor building 5 unit, the price would be north of $10K.

I wouldn't count on race week being in November forever. They've been trying to move it since back when I lived there -- the first week of November is notoriously windy. It leads to unsafe racing conditions which leads to fatalities. Fantasy Fest and Hemingway Days are the only two weeks I would consider "set in stone." Everything else is dependent on the whims of the TDC.

Now let's assume Windward Pointe, first floor, building three, Thanksgiving week and recompute price. There's a big, big range. Really depends on whether OP wants to value high or low for whatever estate reason they have.

 

[bdh]

I wouldn't count on race week being in November forever. They've been trying to move it since back when I lived there -- the first week of November is notoriously windy. It leads to unsafe racing conditions which leads to fatalities. Fantasy Fest and Hemingway Days are the only two weeks I would consider "set in stone." Everything else is dependent on the whims of the TDC.

Now let's assume Windward Pointe, first floor, building three, Thanksgiving week and recompute price. There's a big, big range. Really depends on whether OP wants to value high or low for whatever estate reason they have.

There are some in KW that are promoting "sanitizing" Fantasy Fest - however as long as the City doesn't do away with Fantasy Fest, week 42 and 43 will be remain highly desirable weeks. Regarding power boat week, Race World Offshore has the contract with the City to produce the World Championships. While its possible that Race World Offshore will not get the next 5 year contract to produce the event, similar to Fantasy Fest, it's not probable that the City will do away with power boat week in early November.

Agreed, location, location, location determines value.

With the topic being the value of timeshare, the OP could easily say each week is worth $100 or $10,000 and estate probate would proceed.

 

[VacationForever]

If a low/no value is desired for estate reasons, using eBay as a reference point will work. However the actual value will be higher than $0.

I don't understand your question. Why will the actual value be higher than $0 if that is what is sold for in the resale market? Realistic value is what is sold in the resale market. You cannot look at developer prices. I have paid about $80K for my timeshare. There is no way that I can get back anywhere close to it. One of my weeks is worth zero even though I paid $12K for it back in 1996.

 

[bdh]

I don't understand your question. Why will the actual value be higher than $0 if that is what is sold for in the resale market? Realistic value is what is sold in the resale market. You cannot look at developer prices. I have paid about $80K for my timeshare. There is no way that I can get back anywhere close to it. One of my weeks is worth zero even though I paid $12K for it back in 1996.eBay

I didn't have a question, was trying to convey that eBay is not the best barometer for the real (actual) value for all TS.

eBay is a dumping ground for TS, so it isn't the best or only place to determine the actual value of a property/week. Due to the brand, location and specific properties of the OP's parents ownership, the actual resale value is def higher than $0. The link in post #9 is not to developer prices - they are actual resale asking prices at select properties in KW and SW FL.

The OP could easily say each week is worth $100, $1,000 or $10,000 and estate probate would proceed.

After the probate process has been completed, the OP will most likely be in a scenario of disposing of his parents assets, I wouldn't want them to give away something that does have an actual cash value.

Hopefully the OP returns and clarifies which property in KW as well as the week and unit numbers so the current wide range of values can be narrowed so they make an informed decision when its time to dispose (sell or give away) the units.

 

[VacationForever]

I didn't have a question, was trying to convey that eBay is not the best barometer for the real (actual) value for all TS.

eBay is a dumping ground for TS, so it isn't the best or only place to determine the actual value of a property/week. Due to the brand, location and specific properties of the OP's parents ownership, the actual resale value is def higher than $0. The link in post #9 is not to developer prices - they are actual resale asking prices at select properties in KW and SW FL.

The OP could easily say each week is worth $100, $1,000 or $10,000 and estate probate would proceed.

After the probate process has been completed, the OP will most likely be in a scenario of disposing of his parents assets, I wouldn't want them to give away something that does have an actual cash value.

Hopefully the OP returns and clarifies which property in KW as well as the week and unit numbers so the current wide range of values can be narrowed so they make an informed decision when its time to dispose (sell or give away) the units.

The phrase that you have used is "asking resale price". Completed sales price is actual and as such, realistic.

 

[ScoopKona]

Hopefully the OP returns and clarifies which property in KW as well as the week and unit numbers so the current wide range of values can be narrowed so they make an informed decision when its time to dispose (sell or give away) the units.

I can count the number of first-post questions which included all of the necessary information to give a solid answer on one hand -- after a tablesaw accident.

Regardless of which resort, which unit, and which week, a timeshare in Key West has some value. And even though Marriott has kneecapped the Hyatt timeshare system, any gold week or better is worth keeping if it's free and if the owner vacations. Any gold week can be traded for at least two weeks in Interval, and up to four weeks if the owner doesn't mind trading down in size and/or season. That's a week less than it was last year. But it's still worth the maintenance fee to get two weeks of condos for less than $150/night. I can barely get a Motel 6 for that price.

So, in addition to "what precisely do you own," I'd add, "what precisely would you like to do about what you might inherit?" Because any heir has options. This isn't some Disneyworld "can't pay to get rid of it" week.

 

[NJWolfpacker]

You guys are awesome and I appreciate all of the responses so far.

I need to find out more about the properties (especially the KW one) and will share what I find out.

The goal is to get a fair/realistic value for probate purposes, and then will figure out what to do with them. (The Bonita Springs will definitely be gotten rid of, but will think more about the KW property).

 

[ScoopKona]

(The Bonita Springs will definitely be gotten rid of, but will think more about the KW property).

Why definitely? Unless you're staying at your home resort (I own one and I have never stayed there), the only difference between the two is one is biennial and the other isn't. Both have the same amount of points which mean they do exactly the same things -- one biennial and the other annual.

If the owner is going to use what he or she owns (at least half of the time) then location, unit, floor and week are very important. If the owner is going to trade, none of that is important.

If they were free, I would take either or both of them -- if I didn't already own one. They work as advertised (except for this year's reduction in Interval International trading power). And even with that kneecapping, they're still better than most other timeshares. It's realistic to assume 14 days vacation per maintenance fee (or even 21 days). Divide the fee by the number of days and then compare to hotels-dot-com or Airbnb.

 

[GTLINZ]

Why definitely? Unless you're staying at your home resort (I own one and I have never stayed there), the only difference between the two is one is biennial and the other isn't. Both have the same amount of points which mean they do exactly the same things -- one biennial and the other annual.

Scoop - the OP said the Coconut Plantation unit is late Sept - so it a bronze biennial. I suggested it has no resale value but likely could be given away.

My first ownership was a bronze biennial and I paid very little for it and the closing costs were covered. I made it work and eventually gave it away after getting another HRC week.

 

[ScoopKona]

Scoop - the OP said the Coconut Plantation unit is late Sept - so it a bronze biennial. I suggested it has no resale value but likely could be given away.

My first ownership was a bronze biennial and I paid very little for it and the closing costs were covered. I made it work and eventually gave it away after getting another HRC week.

My bad. I thought it was another Gold.

Yeah, with the recent nerfing, 1300 points is no longer enough. That really stinks for all the Bronze and Silver owners out there. They bought assuming a system which would work for them -- that was taken away, leaving them with a maintenance fee and not enough points to do anything useful.

 

[Kal]

We need to determine what the OP wants to see in pricing. Hi or Low? It depends on how the probate looks to the parties. You can justify almost any "reasonable" approach. Just ignore any numbers the developer presents because they don't sell weeks.