Sudwala fees

[stevedmatt]

http://www.vrsonline.co.za/Sudwala_AGM_2012_web.pdf

I received a response to my email which is essentially a form letter. It still didn't answer my question in regards to deed back. Included was the link above for further information. I scanned it quickly and didn't see a reference of any special assessment.

 

[longnoury]

Pretty pathetic response, and they expect us to trust them with our money.

 

[SacFitz]

stevedmatt

I haven't posted here in years, but am in the same boat as many.:annoyed:

I too would like to deed this back, and recieved the same auto generated email of them being too busy to respond right now. I wonder when they actually will get around to responding?

I also asked about a credit on my annual levies statement that I assumed was from the overpayment of last years fees.

Maybe they would accept that as some sort of settlement to accept the deed back request.

Please let me know if you do get an actual response and I will do the sam

Thanks

SacFitz

http://www.vrsonline.co.za/Sudwala_AGM_2012_web.pdf

I received a response to my email which is essentially a form letter. It still didn't answer my question in regards to deed back. Included was the link above for further information. I scanned it quickly and didn't see a reference of any special assessment.

 

[longnoury]

Wouldn't get too stressed out about the deed back. Make the offer, if they don't respond just walk away. If your not from SA there is zero chance they will do anything.

 

[TSTex02]

VRS email

I just received an email from VRS, saying

Dear Sudwala Member​

Due to numerous enquiries, we as a courtesy again forward the necessary information regarding the Refurbishment.

We for your convenience include below the original communication that were emailed to members as well as attach hereto the refurb brochure in PDF format.

Kind Regards
Property Administration Division


​

I have not yet read their attachment to see if it contains anything of substance, but with this wording of their email I have lost any trust in them that I had remaining. They send this information to us only "as a courtesy again". In the 2nd paragraph they insist this information "were emailed to members" previously. How many of you "Sudwala members" received this information earlier? ...that's what I thought.


What a bunch of dis-information.


For those of you trying to give your Sudwala Chalet shares back to them, Please do not act too quickly. That may be exactly what they want so they can gain a majority ownership at little cost to them. Let's not turn our backs on these people.

 

[longnoury]

Bernie, I also got that same lame email.
Maybe we didn't get it because they never sent it duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[socalgirl]

2013 already deposited into RCI...CAN I EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ?

2013 already deposited into RCI...CAN I EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------does anyone know if having already paying the 2013 levy and RCI already accepting my deposit as far back as September, 2012, and all that precedes in time any notification of refurbishment fees, IF I CAN GO AHEAD AND DO AN RCI EXCHANGE WITHOUT PAYING THE REFURB FEE ? I believe that any rules that existed at the time of levy payment should hold precedence and over-rule more recent enactments of new fees. What concerns me is that I go ahead, RCI accepts the exchange for Sudwala, and I pay the EXCHANGE FEE, nearly $200, only then to have SUDWALA pull the plug on the exchange and deny it for non payment of REFURBISHMENT FEE. If this occurs it's just another Sudwala "backstab" in this fiasco and this time an additional $ loss. Like others I am considering "walking away" so paying the refurb fee probably won't happen. I had many good years with Sudwala while Niky was there and the old management took care of client concerns expeditiously. No vote by AGM, no notice of impending refurb fee, the indignity of the 2/27 email "as a courtesy , here's YOUR NOTICE"...Remember your Constitutional Law ?...sounds like EX POST FACTO...Now the whole Sudwala sounds like a joke to me , if it weren't so serious !

 

[glenmore]

I received a copy of the refurb brochure in an email today along with the schedule of fees and payment plans. These problems in communicating have overwhelmed them but hopefully it will all be sorted out shortly.

 

[Sudwala2013]

I received the refurb brochure too. It looks professional. But there are a few key details:
1. The refurb starts in March, but just 12 days before the work is due to start they are still working out how much to charge us. This doesn't look very well thought out to me.

2. There is no breakdown of the work or where the money is going. At approx 20,000 USD per room this is quite a significant refurbishment fee, noting that Niky got the entire complex upgraded to Silver crown by using only the levies.

3. They comment that "this crucial initiative has already elicited an extremely positive response from our members". From the response to this thread it would appear that none of the members who use this site knew about it, never mind being consulted and being 'extremely positive'. I'd be interested in seeing the evidence to substantiate this.

4. They also comment that "The Share Block Directors have an obligation and a fiduciary duty to look after your assets". Don't the Directors also have a responsibility to advise their members of the upcoming AGM, the agenda for the AGM, the issues to be voted on, the outcome of the AGM, the structure of any investments. Surely, they don't have an open cheque book to do what they want without reference back to owners?

5. Why am I being asked to contribute to the development of a business centre? I thought I owned a holiday timeshare?

6. Can I assume that the additional business revenue from the refurbished business centre and restaurant will be reinvested into the business, thereby reducing maintenance fees? Can I also assume that if all properties are refurbished in 18 months then the maintenance burden will be reduced and our fees will reduce as a consequence? Er... probably not.

7. "Vastly improved holiday experience". Can I assume that this takes it from being Silver crown up to Gold Crown? Great - this will be very worthwhile. But they don't appear to have mentioned this. So in reality, is it fair to assume that this huge investment won't make any impact to the trade value of our weeks?

I'd prefer to gift my weeks to someone free of charge, but in view of the complete lack of transparency, I don't think anyone would want them. I've reluctantly asked for the surrender documents, but unsurprisingly, I've not heard anything from them.

It all looks very suspect.

 

[Suebe]

Contact details

For those who are wanting to surrender and waiting for a response, why not email direct to the Director, Marjorie Forssman? I have been copying her in on recent emails that I have had to send to VRS/RHS. Her email address is:

marjorief@oaks.co.za

The chairman of the Sudwala board was/is J W Meyer but I don't have his email address. He is linked to VEOSA as he is a director of that organisation as well. Someone did post a website address for VEOSA and suggested that people complain to them. He is (or was) linked to a company called Univision and is a director at a number of other timeshare resorts.

Sue

 

[longnoury]

Surrendering Weeks

I believe that if a sufficient number of foreign owners abandon their weeks they could have a major financial problem on their hands. Sudwala in the past has had a extremely low delinquency rate on their levies. Who will make up the difference after all the defaults. Once they take the units back what do they do with them? There are 1000s of timeshares being sold on Ebay for free. In fact several will pay the closing fees and give you a $100 gift card just to get an owner to start paying those MFs again.
As others have stated its not so much the refurb fee but rather the underhanded tactics (ie waiting till everyone's paid their levies before announcing the refurb cash grab) and lack of democratic process we've seen so far (ie. telling us that all the owners were sent the info and responded favourably)

 

[mav]

Perhaps if enough owners complain and mention giving back the weeks they will rethink the refurb? Any ideas on this? I also own there and paid my 2013 fees and deposited the weeks with RCI about 1 year ago. This does not look good. I used to own 2 summer weeks in Austria and this happened. I paid the refurb which was hugh, and they took the money, the timeshare was torn down, and rebuilt into luxury apartments and the apartments sold for a FORTUNE! That was a very sad day for us as we LOVED our weeks there and went EVERY year. Never banked them.

 

[Vodo]

I, too, only just learned of the assessment via the brochure and purportedly already sent (but unreceived) communication from "Property Admin." I don't believe I've paid the current MF's because I was never invoiced for them. I've replied to the assessment message asking for a statement of my account including the assessment being charged, and also requested information concerning deeding back the unit to the resort. I copied the Marjorie referenced in an earlier post in this thread. If I'm remembering correctly, without taking the time to check, I haven't exchanged my last two Sudwala deposits. Trading power is so weak during the times we can travel now that we just haven't bothered. At this point, Sudwala is a waste of money and I would happily hand the unit back over to them.

Does anyone know if just walking away from a South Africa TS has any repercussions to U.S. credit ratings?

 

[Sydney]

We were just told deedback is not possible.

 

[Beefnot]

Oh, deedback is possible. Just a matter of if it is the easy way or the hard way. If you walk away from your MF obligations, they'll get that deed back eventually.

 

[SacFitz]

We were just told deedback is not possible.

I too finally heard back from Marjorie (Thanks for the email Suebe). Here's her response:

1. What is the process to turn the deed back (give back) my week to the resort?
The process is outlined as follows:
You have purchased shares in the Company which offer you use rights in perpetuity, and therefore the shares can’t be deeded back to the company as this would contravene the provisions of the Articles of the company and the statutes regulating the timeshare, you accordingly would need to on-sell your timeshare rights to a third party, should you wish to exit the agreement.
However we urge you to first reconsider this option as the entire market for re-sales is under pressure. Should you however despite the recommendation decide that you want to exit then you can contact your local resale agents, or we can try to put you in contact with agencies in South Africa who may be able to assist, however please note that all amounts due to the company will have to be settled to obtain a clearance certificate which is a requirement for a transfer from one owner to another.

So I guess at this point it is either walk away or try to give it away

Sacfitz

 

[Born2Travel]

Why not?

Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone for them to take back the units rather than have everyone just walk away? I don't understand what they are trying to gain. Do they think everyone will try and sell and therefore pay the fees before they sell?

 

[longnoury]

They actually are playing it smart. If they announced they would happily take them back they would get a ton of people handing their units back to the resort, mostly with fees owing. Then who is going to pay for their swanky resort. VRS wants you to think that walking away is not an option when its really is the easiest one for most non-SA residents. I'm guessing it is probably a big headache for them to get the shares back when people abandon them, but I have no sympathy as they brought this on themselves.

 

[Vodo]

Response from Marjorie Forssman

We refer to your email and wish to advise that the upgrade contribution hyperlink communication did not reach all the members; we apologise and refer you to the following hyperlink http://www.sudwala.com/refurb/2013/2014.html which contains all the details of the process and requirements.

On the positive side we have already had discussions with RCI who have seen the plans and advised that they will re-grade the Exchange Plus Points on completion of the program, and we trust that this will have a positive effect on the International ratings as well.

Due to the fact that you currently are having some problems re your RCI exchanges as per your email, may we suggest that you visit the Dial an Exchange Website on www.daelive.com as they may be able to assist you regarding your requirements?

You have purchased shares in the Company which offer you use rights in perpetuity, and therefore the shares can’t be deeded back to the company as this would contravene the provisions of the Articles of the company and the statutes regulating the timeshare, you accordingly would need to on-sell your timeshare rights to a third party, should you wish to exit the agreement.

However we urge you to first reconsider this option as the entire market for re-sales is under pressure. Should you however despite the recommendation decide that you want to exit then you can contact your local resale agents, or we can try to put you in contact with agencies in South Africa who may be able to assist, however please note that all amounts due to the company will have to be settled to obtain a clearance certificate which is a requirement for a transfer from one owner to another.

Your statement for the levy was sent to you in January 2013 and for the refurb contribution on the 16th February 2013.

Please advise if you require any further information.

I had received neither a levy statement nor a refurbishment assessment statement, so I requested both in my reply. I received PDF's of them shortly afterward. On my little 1BR unit, my levy is 2983 SAR and my assessment is 3998.57 SAR (a combined total of about $660 USD based on today's conversion rates). I am NOT a happy camper! :annoyed:

 

[Vodo]

AND why did the levy go up 150 SAR this year. It seems like it should have gone down or, at a minimum, stayed the same given that no or very little maintenance will have to take place on newly renovated units.

Also, in looking at the floorplan in the refurb brochure for what appears to be a nice 2BR unit, it seems unlikely that my little 1BR unit should fall into the highest assessment category. Has everyone here been assessed 3,998.57 SAR? I have to confess that I have no idea where my original paperwork is from back in 2002, so I don't know what my shareblock is, but I'm skeptical that my unit should fall into the highest assessment bracket.

 

[MuranoJo]

I had received neither a levy statement nor a refurbishment assessment statement, so I requested both in my reply. I received PDF's of them shortly afterward. On my little 1BR unit, my levy is 2983 SAR and my assessment is 3998.57 SAR (a combined total of about $660 USD based on today's conversion rates). I am NOT a happy camper! :annoyed:

While I'm also not happy about this 'surprise' assessment, I have to say $660 for a year's levy (m/f) and an assessment is relatively inexpensive. Special assessments aren't all that unusual in the timeshare world these days, and from what I've seen, some are way more than $660--for the assessment alone.

I agree it is very disappointing to see the deterioration in communication since Niky left. Her focus on customer service really made Sudwala one of the better SA ownerships, IMO.

 

[Suebe]

While I'm also not happy about this 'surprise' assessment, I have to say $660 for a year's levy (m/f) and an assessment is relatively inexpensive. Special assessments aren't all that unusual in the timeshare world these days, and from what I've seen, some are way more than $660--for the assessment alone.

I agree it is very disappointing to see the deterioration in communication since Niky left. Her focus on customer service really made Sudwala one of the better SA ownerships, IMO.

VODO: There are two types of one-bedroom units at Sudwala - 1-bed (2+2) which are small, and larger 1-bed (4). They each have different share values. Mine is a smaller one which is worth 8 shares, so my annual levy for 2013 is 2386R and the refurb levy is 3198.85R. You may well have a larger 1-bedroom unit. On the Sudwala refurb information brochure there is a list of how much you should be paying.

I agree with Muranojo. The annual fees for a Sudwala are low by European and American standards, and I am prepared to pay the refurb levy if it helps to get the whole resort upgraded quickly. If this then has an impact on trading power/points values, then it can only be of benefit. The work done by Niky and Cameron has already increased Sudwala's rating with RCI but there is still a lot more to do. We have visited the resort on a number of occasions and it is a great place but improvements were needed still. We hope to go back next year and hope to find that all the planned refurbishments will be a great improvement.

There is a lot of scaremongering going on as well as conspiracy theories being suggested with no real substance. Why are so many thinking that this is a deliberate attempt to get rid of owners. The problems have started because of their crap communication!!! Let's hope that people are being taken to task about it and it is getting sorted!!

I remember having an email from Niky and Cameron just after the change of management company and they were both excited by the plans that the new company and owner had for the complex.

As I have said in another message, VRS run a number of timeshare resorts in SA, some of which we have visited and are well run, well kept with modern facilities. I, for one, am going to give them a chance.

Sue

 

[Suebe]

AND why did the levy go up 150 SAR this year. It seems like it should have gone down or, at a minimum, stayed the same given that no or very little maintenance will have to take place on newly renovated units.

Also, in looking at the floorplan in the refurb brochure for what appears to be a nice 2BR unit, it seems unlikely that my little 1BR unit should fall into the highest assessment category. Has everyone here been assessed 3,998.57 SAR? I have to confess that I have no idea where my original paperwork is from back in 2002, so I don't know what my shareblock is, but I'm skeptical that my unit should fall into the highest assessment bracket.

Vodo, the number of the unit you own is shown as part of your Member Number, eg mine is 602 and then this is followed by the week number. It also shows on the ref number after the letters SLS. These are both on your statements from Sudwala. The one-bedroom units are in the 100-700 blocks. What is your number? I would query what they have sent you.

By the way, Tajsrish has left the company so no good emailing to her. Latest communication I have received is from Sheree Mostert (shereem @qv.co.za).

Sue

 

[Vodo]

Vodo, the number of the unit you own is shown as part of your Member Number, eg mine is 602 and then this is followed by the week number. It also shows on the ref number after the letters SLS. These are both on your statements from Sudwala. The one-bedroom units are in the 100-700 blocks. What is your number? I would query what they have sent you.

By the way, Tajsrish has left the company so no good emailing to her. Latest communication I have received is from Sheree Mostert (shereem @qv.co.za).

Sue

My unit reference number is SLL407. I have asked for a confirmation that my unit does actually fall into the highest assessment category, but have not yet received a response.

I have another contact person to throw into the mix in addition to Ms. Forssman (who is the Managing Director). Her name is Charlene van den Berg and her title is Senior Manager, Property Admin and Correspondence. Her email addres is charlenev@qv.co.za.

As far as the assessment and levy being small by U.S. standards, the smaller fees are why I bought a SA unit. In exchange for those lower fees, I suffer with the hassle of international transactions, communications issues, and low trading power. If I'm going to have to pay the equivalent of high U.S. fees, I would prefer to own a U.S. property where I might at least occasionally make use of the unit I own. (Traveling to SA is definitely NOT on my wish list.)

I agree, though, that the entire thing may have been more palatable had there been communication about the possibility of an assessment and why, timely and appropriate notification that an assessment had been levied, and, in general, a more positive relationship between the new management and the timeshare owners they serve. I have to doubt that any management company who deals in such a heavy handed way with its shareholders is going to do a good job, but we'll see. My only choice is to either walk away or pay. Since no one seems to know if walking away is likely to impact U.S. credit ratings, I feel, unfortunately, like I have to bite the bullet and pay.

 

[Suebe]

407 is definitely a 1-bedroom unit but not sure if it is a large one or not. I have been in touch with Charlene as well and have had some responses from her.

I do remember seeing, in the early days of ownership, a list of units that were up for resale because their owners had defaulted. They were sent with the AGM documents and other owners could put in bids to buy them if they wanted. So, although the Articles of Association may not allow for people to deed back their units, owners did just stop paying. Whether they were from SA or abroad I don't know, nor whether they were chased for payment in any way.

I know that the purchase of units by a number of Americans and Europeans who paid regularly and often in advance, was a great help to the resort and its finances.

Perhaps this new management company are not used to dealing with international owners and these problems will get ironed out.

Sue