Hono Koa maintenance fees and taxes, 2023, fees are going up again

[rickandcindy23]

		HOK-Koa Club Operations	05/01/23	$897.14		($623.24)
		HOK-Koa Land Lease	05/01/23	$530.46		($92.78)
		HOK-Koa Furniture Fund	05/01/23	$68.24		($24.54)
		HOK-Koa Property Tax	08/01/23	$426.20		$401.66
				$2,698.40

 

[rickandcindy23]

I truly despise Soleil Management.

 

[bnoble]

Do you think they are wasting money or spending it unnecessarily?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Do you think they are wasting money or spending it unnecessarily?

The resort sits empty about 50% of the time. I would say we are paying twice as much as necessary because there is a lot of bad debt. People not paying is why, IMO. But they don't say that. They just keep upping the fees.

We need Wyndham to take over the Maui properties. Soleil/ Kainoa Properties has no feasible way to resell weeks. The resort is still my favorite to stay, but it's very expensive to own it.

When I compare what it costs to stay at Shearwater, I don't feel nearly as badly about paying this much for Hono Koa. Still, I think mismanagement is the issue with Hono Koa.

The resort has a major update going on right now. I am hoping we don't get a special assessment on top of the outrageous fees we are paying.

 

[TheHolleys87]

What are the figures in the last column?

 

[rickandcindy23]

What are the figures in the last column?

The parentheses are the amounts I have paid against the maintenance fees (in the black).

I realize owning Hawaii is expensive, but this is getting out of hand. I love the update they are doing, and it's probably already complete by now. Excited to see our units pretty but at what expense?

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Hmm, I used to run by there when I stayed anywhere around Kaanapali. Hard to understand why they can't rent that place out to 70% occupancy.
Sounds like a classic death-spiral though: resort sits empty about 50% of the time because owners won't pay fees so they have to up the fees to fewer & fewer owners. And then the coup de grace ... don't know how to resell weeks they are taking back. Just hard to understand that happening in that part of Maui, when renting should be easy.
Maybe they think the upgrade makes it more likely they find a buyer for the whole thing?
Strangely though, I actually went to that website a few months ago and got stern warnings from my anti-virus that they were "trying to download a program" onto my PC. So much for attracting random potential buyers.

 

[bnoble]

Hawaii is expensive. I looked at MKW for grins, because we had an exchange there. $2,600 in fees for a 1BR. So that might not be as much bad debt as you think.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Hmm, I used to run by there when I stayed anywhere around Kaanapali. Hard to understand why they can't rent that place out to 70% occupancy.
Sounds like a classic death-spiral though: resort sits empty about 50% of the time because owners won't pay fees so they have to up the fees to fewer & fewer owners. And then the coup de grace ... don't know how to resell weeks they are taking back. Just hard to understand that happening in that part of Maui, when renting should be easy.
Maybe they think the upgrade makes it more likely they find a buyer for the whole thing?
Strangely though, I actually went to that website a few months ago and got stern warnings from my anti-virus that they were "trying to download a program" onto my PC. So much for attracting random potential buyers.

Hono Koa doesn't have air conditioning, keeping people away in the hottest parts of the summer. They have been talking for 20 years about installing AC, at least a unit in the bedroom. The office has AC, and it's nice in that office.

January-April are booked, but I can get our unit type, oceanfront, the rest of the year. The fees increased by 20% for 2023. Bad debt was never a reason given, just increases in laundry, housekeeping staff, etc.

I see Hono Koa for rent via II and RCI, and I have considered renting a week for the additional time we need in February. We would probably get a unit on the first floor, away from the ocean.

You may have gone to the wrong website. https://www.honokoavc.com/

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Hono Koa doesn't have air conditioning, keeping people away in the hottest parts of the summer. They have been talking for 20 years about installing AC, at least a unit in the bedroom. The office has AC, and it's nice in that office.

January-April are booked, but I can get our unit type, oceanfront, the rest of the year. The fees increased by 20% for 2023. Bad debt was never a reason given, just increases in laundry, housekeeping staff, etc.

I see Hono Koa for rent via II and RCI, and I have considered renting a week for the additional time we need in February. We would probably get a unit on the first floor, away from the ocean.

You may have gone to the wrong website. https://www.honokoavc.com/

yes. that is where my search led me. I figured vacancies may have to do with lack of A/C and summer. I went to Maui only 2x in the summer. We have 5 months of beautiful afternoon weather in summer, so pllenty to do outdoors here. why leave? I hear people complain about lack of AC in some places in HI. If it were just me, I don't think it'd bother me, as long as there was PM breeze/wind. Too late this summer, but I should check and see what rates are for next summer. I guess the real problem is for "a unit on the first floor, away from the ocean" lack of AC would suck if you don't get any ocean breeze. OF I could handle
LOL, the office has A/C. That should go in that "daily humor" thread.

 

[flindberg]

The resort sits empty about 50% of the time. I would say we are paying twice as much as necessary because there is a lot of bad debt. People not paying is why, IMO. But they don't say that. They just keep upping the fees.

We need Wyndham to take over the Maui properties. Soleil/ Kainoa Properties has no feasible way to resell weeks. The resort is still my favorite to stay, but it's very expensive to own it.

When I compare what it costs to stay at Shearwater, I don't feel nearly as badly about paying this much for Hono Koa. Still, I think mismanagement is the issue with Hono Koa.

The resort has a major update going on right now. I am hoping we don't get a special assessment on top of the outrageous fees we are paying.

Not sure why you'd want Wyndham to manage? Our Kauai Pahio mf went up >65% since Wyndham took over... They're buying up everything they can but it's still hard to find availability even with VIP perks.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Not sure why you'd want Wyndham to manage? Our Kauai Pahio mf went up >65% since Wyndham took over... They're buying up everything they can but it's still hard to find availability even with VIP perks.

I just want a management company that will move the available inventory, whether by hook or by crook (hahahaha!). We own Bali Hai and Shearwater but converted to Wyndham points in 2006 or 2007. The fees are higher, but so is everything else.

When you look at the value you get for the MF's at Hono Koa, it's not great. The second bedroom and the great kitchen are pluses, and I do enjoy our OF views. It's that Westin has similar MF's. WESTIN! Westin 2 bedrooms are under $2,800, and I can lock my unit off and rent the studio side to pay the entire MF of the two bedroom. That is a true story. I have done it now a second year. 2024 studios are rented already.

I really do love the oceanfront view at Hono Koa, but there is no beach, and the pool is small and not heated. It's cold in that pool. I wish I could make use of the second bedroom, but Rick's stepmom died almost three years ago, and my stepdad cannot find his way through an airport anymore. Sad but so true.

We thought of inviting Rick's brother and wife, but they are not well enough to fly that long. They are former smokers, and boy do they have health issues. He is only 5 years older than Rick. I don't think he could put a carryon in the luggage compartment by himself, and she couldn't do it.

My sister wants to go to Maui sometime, but she hasn't ever made the commitment to be there with us. I might see if she wants to go this next year.

We have friends who would like to go, but maybe that would be a little too much togetherness in the same unit.

 

[PamMo]

yes. that is where my search led me. I figured vacancies may have to do with lack of A/C and summer. I went to Maui only 2x in the summer. We have 5 months of beautiful afternoon weather in summer, so pllenty to do outdoors here. why leave? I hear people complain about lack of AC in some places in HI. If it were just me, I don't think it'd bother me, as long as there was PM breeze/wind. Too late this summer, but I should check and see what rates are for next summer. I guess the real problem is for "a unit on the first floor, away from the ocean" lack of AC would suck if you don't get any ocean breeze. OF I could handle
LOL, the office has A/C. That should go in that "daily humor" thread.

@WaikikiFirst, if you were a member of TUG, you probably would've seen (below) what Interval was/is renting 2024 summer weeks at Hono Koa for. If I were @rickandcindy23 I'd be unhappy, too!

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/ii-getaways-some-decently-priced-hawaiian-2024-weeks-including-major-holidays.354636/

 

[flindberg]

I just want a management company that will move the available inventory, whether by hook or by crook (hahahaha!). We own Bali Hai and Shearwater but converted to Wyndham points in 2006 or 2007. The fees are higher, but so is everything else.

When you look at the value you get for the MF's at Hono Koa, it's not great. The second bedroom and the great kitchen are pluses, and I do enjoy our OF views. It's that Westin has similar MF's. WESTIN! Westin 2 bedrooms are under $2,800, and I can lock my unit off and rent the studio side to pay the entire MF of the two bedroom. That is a true story. I have done it now a second year. 2024 studios are rented already.

I really do love the oceanfront view at Hono Koa, but there is no beach, and the pool is small and not heated. It's cold in that pool. I wish I could make use of the second bedroom, but Rick's stepmom died almost three years ago, and my stepdad cannot find his way through an airport anymore. Sad but so true.

We thought of inviting Rick's brother and wife, but they are not well enough to fly that long. They are former smokers, and boy do they have health issues. He is only 5 years older than Rick. I don't think he could put a carryon in the luggage compartment by himself, and she couldn't do it.

My sister wants to go to Maui sometime, but she hasn't ever made the commitment to be there with us. I might see if she wants to go this next year.

We have friends who would like to go, but maybe that would be a little too much togetherness in the same unit.

Wyndham DOES move inventory ;-). We own Bali Hai as well & converted to points about the same time as you all. I guess it's just a hard fact that MF's are high in desirable locations. Reading what others pay makes me feel (slightly) better about what we shell out month after month.
It surely can be hard to find others to share HI travel with... an especially for E. Coasters. Covid didn’t help. Hope it all works out for you

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Hono Koa doesn't have air conditioning, keeping people away in the hottest parts of the summer. They have been talking for 20 years about installing AC, at least a unit in the bedroom. The office has AC, and it's nice in that office.

January-April are booked, but I can get our unit type, oceanfront, the rest of the year. The fees increased by 20% for 2023. Bad debt was never a reason given, just increases in laundry, housekeeping staff, etc.

I see Hono Koa for rent via II and RCI, and I have considered renting a week for the additional time we need in February. We would probably get a unit on the first floor, away from the ocean.

You may have gone to the wrong website. https://www.honokoavc.com/

The Sands of Kahana timeshare does not have A/C either. BUT, it was wired for it. For example, in the 3 br unit, there are four separate 20 amp 240 volt circuit breakers and they are each labeled "window AC". That is a lot of power available !!! Also, there are four associated 240 volt receptacles next to the lanai, etc. It would be a piece of cake to put in a ductless mini-split AC system. They could do the same thing as Kona Coast II (and I) where each guest has the choice to use/pay for AC or go without. If done right, it could even be a minor source of revenue.
The next time you're at Hono Koa you might find it interesting to pop open the circuit breaker box and see if those units are also prewired.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Wyndham DOES move inventory ;-). We own Bali Hai as well & converted to points about the same time as you all. I guess it's just a hard fact that MF's are high in desirable locations. Reading what others pay makes me feel (slightly) better about what we shell out month after month.
It surely can be hard to find others to share HI travel with... an especially for E. Coasters. Covid didn’t help. Hope it all works out for you

Every time I see or write the phrase, Wyndham moves inventory, I automatically think, "those poor saps who fall for the presentation." True. I always finish that thought with the realization that someone is getting suckered.

In the example of Hono Koa, where the units are being updated and upgraded currently to more reflect our maintenance fees, the resort itself doesn't really make sense for the fees we pay. We didn't buy it for a resort feel. We bought it for the view, and the view is worth a lot to me, but the 20% increase of 2023 has me questioning the integrity of the management company. If they send us a bill for a special assessment to pay for that update/ remodel, I will need to know how many owners are not paying and why they aren't moving inventory.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

@WaikikiFirst, if you were a member of TUG, you probably would've seen (below) what Interval was/is renting 2024 summer weeks at Hono Koa for. If I were @rickandcindy23 I'd be unhappy, too!

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/ii-getaways-some-decently-priced-hawaiian-2024-weeks-including-major-holidays.354636/

oh, believe me, I have enough familiarity with that part of Maui and enough facility with #s to know that $2700 in yrly fees for that place is plenty of reason to complain

 

[WaikikiFirst]

why they aren't moving inventory

People do what people do but the high yrly fees makes it tough to "move inventory". The Death Spiral.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

$270/night for a place with same OF view, lot less space but AWESOME beach right outside the door. I get it on the $2700.

Ocean Front Two Queens​

370 ft²square feet
- Full Ocean Views

 

[rickandcindy23]

The Sands of Kahana timeshare does not have A/C either. BUT, it was wired for it. For example, in the 3 br unit, there are four separate 20 amp 240 volt circuit breakers and they are each labeled "window AC". That is a lot of power available !!! Also, there are four associated 240 volt receptacles next to the lanai, etc. It would be a piece of cake to put in a ductless mini-split AC system. They could do the same thing as Kona Coast II (and I) where each guest has the choice to use/pay for AC or go without. If done right, it could even be a minor source of revenue.
The next time you're at Hono Koa you might find it interesting to pop open the circuit breaker box and see if those units are also prewired.

What are your fees on the 3 bedrooms at SOK?

 

[BJRSanDiego]

What are your fees on the 3 bedrooms at SOK?

Cindy, I don't have the figures in front of me but last year they were around $1600 and I think that this year they jumped to around $1950 (???). Tomorrow I'll endeavor to get more accurate numbers. We still have an assessment for the remodel (because So Lay haven't been (IMHO) adequately funding the reserve fund. And the Maui taxes have jumped up substantially.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Cindy, I don't have the figures in front of me but last year they were around $1600 and I think that this year they jumped to around $1950 (???). Tomorrow I'll endeavor to get more accurate numbers. We still have an assessment for the remodel (because So Lay haven't been (IMHO) adequately funding the reserve fund. And the Maui taxes have jumped up substantially.

Hono Koa, 2 bed, 2 bath, oceanfront (great kitchen, washer/dryer, nice shower, but not fancy at all, and they took away mid-week clean and tidy):

Fees for 2024: $2,917.18

No explanation as to why the fees went up another few hundred dollars.

This is very high. This is almost as high as our Westin oceanfront 2 bedroom lockoffs. Property taxes I added 2023's, as I don't know 2024's yet, so if 2024 taxes go up, it will be even more.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The updates to the units are beautiful so far. New blinds that match Sands of Kahana's and are easy to move back and forth. These nice blinds replaced the 20-year-old vertical blinds that were in bad condition. The kitchen cabinets look great as well. We still don't have new furniture in our unit. We are here for three weeks. Just arrived to our owned units yesterday. The view is why we love Hono Koa. No matter how much I complain about the fees, I am happy with this unit and view. It's comfortably cool without AC, and the breezes are enough to cool the unit with the blinds drawn. The units face directly west.

I still think Wyndham should take over the management of these units. As much as I dislike Wyndham for the treatment we received as mega renters, Wyndham is great with managing resorts and keeping costs down.