SPG 2015 Category Changes

[DavidnRobin]

For those that stay at SPG Hotels using StarPoints…

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...8-announcing-spg-s-2015-category-changes.html

This is annual change that generally causes SPs to be devalued - unless Bakersfield is a place you stay.

on the other hand for certain SVO Resorts
SDO down from 5 to 4
WKORV down from 7 to 6
WKV down from 6 to 5

Certainly glad I booked Westin Verasa Napa (5 to 6) for July 4th weekend already

 

[krj9999]

Several European and Canadian hotels did come down, certainly influenced by currency changes (stronger dollar).

Vistana Beach also reduced from 5 to 4.

 

[Rsauer3473]

European hotels have doubled in SPs required since we last traveled there in 2010. One could easily get a room in Venice, Rome, or Barcelona for 12K. Now they are 25K+.

I'm not sure about Bakersfield, but we once stayed at a Sheraton Four Points in Fresno on our way to WKV. I think the point requirement was really low due to some rooms apparently being rented on an hourly basis. At least that's what it looked like to us.

 

[Ken555]

Thanks for the post.

I find it amusing that the Sheraton Gateway LAX hotel is going up and the Westin LAX is going down a category...net zero change within a mile of each other.


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[Ken555]

European hotels have doubled in SPs required since we last traveled there in 2010. One could easily get a room in Venice, Rome, or Barcelona for 12K. Now they are 25K+. .

The Four Points Barcelona is going to category 2. I've got a current reservation at the Le Meridian Barcelona and now considering changing to the Four Points...I've read good reviews of both hotels. Either way, the Le Meridian was only 12,000 per night (an 16 in summer) not counting 5:4 bonus...a far cry from your 25k+ erroneous reference.


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[DavidnRobin]

I just booked a Westin Verasa Napa (Cat 5 to 6) on SPs for later in 2015.
In 2014, Sheraton Petaluma went from Cat 3 to 4, and Westin Napa went from Cat 4 to 5 (and now Cat 6) - plus most of the SF Bay Area SW hotels have also increased in 2014/2015 - talk about SP devaluation!

 

[NNerland]

Thanks so much for catching this. My parents are going to book Punta Mita in Mexico - a St Regis Hotel. Was going for 20,000 points per night and going to category 7. Rooms are $2600/night. I quickly locked in the 20,000 rate before it goes to 25,000 or 30,000. The value for 7 nights is $18,500 -- 120,000 points and they have a package of 100,000 startpoints that can be bought for $1800.

Always a bummer when such nice hotels go up -- clearly a devalue and something we struggle with....but glad they raised our St John 3 bedroom exchange to close to 135,000 -- with the lower MF's (for now) of about $2300 you can get a nice exchange for a week when we don't go to St John.

 

[Rsauer3473]

The Four Points Barcelona is going to category 2. I've got a current reservation at the Le Meridian Barcelona and now considering changing to the Four Points...I've read good reviews of both hotels. Either way, the Le Meridian was only 12,000 per night (an 16 in summer) not counting 5:4 bonus...a far cry from your 25k+ erroneous reference.


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You're right about Barcelona, though a 33% increase is still high based on our 2010 trip and one this coming fall at roughly same time. Four Points is a mile or so from the main shopping area of La Ramblas. I could have thrown in the Astir Palace near Athens which more than doubled. I'd say three out of four hotels doubling the SPs needed for a stay is more than indicative of the trend here. The 5:4 bonus between 2010 and now still represents a difference of 32k points (80% more) for redemption.

 

[shade]

Booked 5 nights at Phoenician (Going from 5 to 6) over New Years Eve for just 48,000 points. Easy .04 cents/point. Love the hotel/resort at that time of year.

 

[Ken555]

You're right about Barcelona, though a 33% increase is still high based on our 2010 trip and one this coming fall at roughly same time. Four Points is a mile or so from the main shopping area of La Ramblas. I could have thrown in the Astir Palace near Athens which more than doubled. I'd say three out of four hotels doubling the SPs needed for a stay is more than indicative of the trend here. The 5:4 bonus between 2010 and now still represents a difference of 32k points (80% more) for redemption.

It's worth noting that not one hotel in Europe increased to a higher category this year, while a number of nice European hotels are moving to a lower category instead. I also was discouraged when I saw the increases over the last few years, but comparing values to five years ago simply isn't realistic.

As for Barcelona, it's always nice to be near La Ramblas but I'm not sure if it's worth the difference for me (since this isn't my first time in Barcelona). Still considering it, but will likely keep the Le Meridian even though a five night stay at the new rate will cost an extra 31,000 StarPoints.

This years changes are objectively probably the least impactful overall in many years from SPG, though some always just don't make sense to me. I know they base the category change on a few factors including average nightly revenue for the previous year but...Westin San Francisco Airport at cat 5?


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[LisaRex]

This years changes are objectively probably the least impactful overall in many years from SPG, though some always just don't make sense to me. I know they base the category change on a few factors including average nightly revenue for the previous year but...Westin San Francisco Airport at cat 5?

I'd imagine a lot of West Coast airport hotels are popular places for Midwest and East Coast flyers to stay for a day before flying on to Hawaii, Australia or Asia. just as East Coast airport hotels are popular places for folks to land prior to continuing on to Europe or Africa.

SFO is one of the places I'm considering staying overnight on my next trip to Hawaii. Back in the day before all the airlines merged and CVG was de-hubbed, we could usually find a flight that left CVG at 6am and arrived in Hawaii by 3pm. Now it's difficult to find a flight on any airline that will arrive earlier than 9 or 10pm, which is 2 or 3am EST. That's an exhausting day of travel.

So your choice is to either fly to your destination in one fell swoop and miss that entire first day (at $350+ a night) at your Hawaiian resort, fly in to Hawaii and stay at a cheaper hotel for the first night before checking out at 11am and waiting til 3pm to check in to your resort...OR punting and flying to SFO the prior morning so that you can enjoy a day in California prior to continuing on to Hawaii on their first morning flight the next day.

Personally, I'm thinking the latter option sounds more attractive. That's probably helping to push up the price and the category for the hotels of airports that service Hawaii, Australia, etc.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Granted, many of these changes help SPG travelers outside of the US. But, for our type of SPG usage, these changes over the past 3 years are hurting us from a SP inflation (devaluation) standpoint. This and the upcoming AMEX-Costco split will likely have us moving away from gathering SPs for future travel except when a deal comes up for AA conversion. May need to go to a card that collects BA Avios mileage, and a standard cash back card.
YMMV

Glad I have spent a lot of SPs over the last 5-6 years (~600K).

 

[Ken555]

I'd imagine a lot of West Coast airport hotels are popular places for Midwest and East Coast flyers to stay for a day before flying on to Hawaii, Australia or Asia. just as East Coast airport hotels are popular places for folks to land prior to continuing on to Europe or Africa.



SFO is one of the places I'm considering staying overnight on my next trip to Hawaii. Back in the day before all the airlines merged and CVG was de-hubbed, we could usually find a flight that left CVG at 6am and arrived in Hawaii by 3pm. Now it's difficult to find a flight on any airline that will arrive earlier than 9 or 10pm, which is 2 or 3am EST. That's an exhausting day of travel.



So your choice is to either fly to your destination in one fell swoop and miss that entire first day (at $350+ a night) at your Hawaiian resort, fly in to Hawaii and stay at a cheaper hotel for the first night before checking out at 11am and waiting til 3pm to check in to your resort...OR punting and flying to SFO the prior morning so that you can enjoy a day in California prior to continuing on to Hawaii on their first morning flight the next day.



Personally, I'm thinking the latter option sounds more attractive. That's probably helping to push up the price and the category for the hotels of airports that service Hawaii, Australia, etc.

Still, it's just an airport hotel. An airport hotel at cat 5. That seems excessive to me, but they must be busy and earning the revenue to justify it.

FWIW, I've stayed at many SPG airport hotels around the world. I understand their benefits. But...it's just an airport hotel.


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[Ken555]

Granted, many of these changes help SPG travelers outside of the US. But, for our type of SPG usage, these changes over the past 3 years are hurting us from a SP inflation (devaluation) standpoint. This and the upcoming AMEX-Costco split will likely have us moving away from gathering SPs for future travel except when a deal comes up for AA conversion. May need to go to a card that collects BA Avios mileage, and a standard cash back card.
YMMV

Glad I have spent a lot of SPs over the last 5-6 years (~600K).

I think you're being overly harsh. I don't usually defend SPG but this years changes really appear reasonable and balanced to me (except the Westin SF airport hotel ). I think the previous few years were more impactful.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that one of the reasons European hotels didn't see any increase, and some nice places have a decrease, is due to the economy in that region. Even one of the Sheraton London Heathrow hotels is going to be cheaper.




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[DavidnRobin]

I think you're being overly harsh. I don't usually defend SPG but this years changes really appear reasonable and balanced to me (except the Westin SF airport hotel ). I think the previous few years were more impactful.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that one of the reasons European hotels didn't see any increase, and some nice places have a decrease, is due to the economy in that region. Even one of the Sheraton London Heathrow hotels is going to be cheaper.

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not really being overly harsh - just being realistic for our usage - YMMV (and apparently does)

Over the last 3 years - the SP requirements for SPG hotels that I mainly stay at (or would stay at) have gone up a lot. Especially given that the SPs needed go up by quite a lot for each change in category.

For example - We like to stay in the North SF wine country

Westin Verasa Napa (stay there about 2x per year) has gone from Cat 4 to Cat 5 and now Cat 6 (10K to 20+K SP/nite; 100+% in 2 years)
Sheraton Petaluma has gone from Cat 3 to Cat 4 (7K to 10K; a 40+% increase)

that is 40+% and 100+% in the last 2 years…
There is no other alternative other than 4-Points San Rafael (and I might as well drive home at this point)

Mostly all of the Westins' on the West Coast have seen similar rises in the last 2-3 years, and I believe for the urban SPG hotels on the East Coast as well.

As to the Costco-AMEX deal… I will continue to shop Costco regardless if they take AMEX or not. But once Costco stops taking AMEX - I have no great incentive to keep our AMEX SPG card (except maybe to pay our MFs). Especially with the large SP increase for the SGP hotels we use. In my book - considering we fit the perfect user profile for AMEX - AMEX is the loser here if we give up our AMEX card as we have multiple alternatives. How is that good business sense on AMEX's part? (thus my corporate greed comment in the other thread…) Do they really think their card is so special to use that I will keep it? Heck, good luck trying to find a USVI business that takes AMEX.

Unless things change - I will be off AMEX come March 2016.

 

[Ken555]

Westin Verasa Napa (stay there about 2x per year) has gone from Cat 4 to Cat 5 and now Cat 6 (10K to 20+K SP/nite; 100+% in 2 years)
Sheraton Petaluma has gone from Cat 3 to Cat 4 (7K to 10K; a 40+% increase)

Westin Napa is a relatively new location, and I think it's understandable that it found an audience, increased rates and occupancy which resulted in annual increases for award stays. I agree that cat6 is a lot for it, but if they can get it they should.

There are many examples of increases. But, there are many examples of decreases as well. My point is that this year it seems to balance out nicely, and in general better than the last few years.


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[tante]

Really disappointed that Punta Mita is now a cat 7. Hard to justify 30k points per night when Westin Lagunamar, Westin Grand Cayman and STJ are all about 12k points per night. I still think cat 4 and 5 is the sweet spot.

 

[NNerland]

Westin St John is rumored to go away on points starting in January. Killer Category 4 Hotel -- wish they would have just raised to Category 5.

 

[SMHarman]

Westin St John is rumored to go away on points starting in January. Killer Category 4 Hotel -- wish they would have just raised to Category 5.

Where is this rumor coming from?

WLR and Princeville and Maui are all still available to book through the hotel GDS and with Starpoints. Why is WSJ going to be different?

 

[NNerland]

The 2016 calendar stops at Jan 3rd.

We were just at the resort and they hinted during Sales presentation that the access via points is coming to an end. They said only rumor, but with the calendar frozen something is up.

I really hope just a sales tactic used on others visiting, not a 5 star platinum guest (me) - but either way it is what it is. Doesn't make sense to me, but they only have 84 rooms now after conversion and they get a steep premium for them.

Personally - would make more sense to raise value for redemption...but that is just me.

 

[tante]

The 2016 calendar stops at Jan 3rd.

We were just at the resort and they hinted during Sales presentation that the access via points is coming to an end. They said only rumor, but with the calendar frozen something is up.

I really hope just a sales tactic used on others visiting, not a 5 star platinum guest (me) - but either way it is what it is. Doesn't make sense to me, but they only have 84 rooms now after conversion and they get a steep premium for them.

Personally - would make more sense to raise value for redemption...but that is just me.

You can rent the villas on points now, not just the hotel rooms.

 

[NNerland]

You can rent the villas on points now, not just the hotel rooms.

Only until Jan 3rd, 2016 -- they calendar drops off. Rumor is they will only have Villa's when returned by people who don't rent with their new Trust Options.

But yes - through year end you can get a Studio Villa for 12k per night most dates through end of 2015.

 

[Ken555]

Rumors. Salespeople. Those always = truth, right? Let's be sure to spread the news so everyone can worry. /sigh


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[DavidnRobin]

Westin St John is rumored to go away on points starting in January. Killer Category 4 Hotel -- wish they would have just raised to Category 5.

WSJ is Cat 5…
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/prefe...rtType=region&brandFilter=WI&categoryFilter=5
both 'Resort' and 'Villas' - Cat 5 is listed on SPG

I think our SVO Forum has set a record for speculation, misinformation, and embellishment in the last couple of months - perhaps that is just the way of the world nowadays… <sad face>

 

[DavidnRobin]

Westin Napa is a relatively new location...

If by relatively new - you mean 5 years ago…
It will be interesting to see it post-EQ, we visited a few weeks before the quake.

I get what you are saying - popular destination, high-cost area, and a great use of SPs considering basic rooms run for >$450/night…

But, it is only my SP value that I care about - and that has significantly decreased over the last 2-3 years at the SPG hotels I care to stay (or have plans to visit). Therefore, my strategy is too reduce my SPs (so I am reserving what I can now) and stop accumulating SPs come March 2016 when Costco-AMEX split.

It is my sabbatical year again (yay!) - so we already have 2 weeks in WSJ, 1 week at WKORV (using both sides of LO), and 2 weeks at WPORV for our SVO stays.
and 8 nites at the Westin Napa, 5 nights in Chicago for SPG stays (already did 7 nights at the LM Picadilly) - and renting a 8Bd villa for a week in Las Vegas for my Mom's 80th.

but alas… no Roatan this year… what happened to W5*?