You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[Chrispee]

This just in; you’re more likely to have an accident commuting to downtown SAN Francisco than in rural Idaho.

 

[HitchHiker71]

When the subject is accidents why would you think the quotes are for purchasing insurance instead of insurance repair quotes ? I didn't say it, I quoted the study which in this particular paragraph claims Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.

Bill

Lendingtree openly states that the data from that study is sourced from Quotewizard. Go here:

Compare Insurance Quotes: Get the Best Rates - QuoteWizard

Get affordable auto, home, renters, life, and health insurance quotes from top companies. Compare insurance rates and find out how much you can save!

www.quotewizard.com

Do you see anywhere on that site saying anything about insurance repair quotes? Where are you getting this idea from?

Excerpted directly from the article you posted:

What to know about our study

Our study is based on QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance inquiries from Jan. 1, 2024, through Dec. 31, 2024. We analyzed the 30 brands with the most inquiries in this period. This study categorizes drivers based on inquiries made for those brands.

Quotewizard is an insurance quoting engine for consumers seeking new insurance policy price quotes, nothing more.



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[davidvel]

When the subject is accidents why would you think the quotes are for purchasing insurance instead of insurance repair quotes ? I didn't say it, I quoted the study which in this particular paragraph claims Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.

Bill

It is not what I (or you) think, it is what is factual and true. But I would think Lending Tree knows what their study is about more than you (or me.) Did you ignore all the quotes I put in?

But to answer your question, the reason I would think (aside from Lending tree told me so) they were using data from insurance quotes is because people have to report how many accidents they have, and they also say what kind of car they drive when they request a quote. But they don't say what kind of car they were driving when they were in an accident, only the make of the car they currently want insurance for, so really meaningless data without even correlation.

I would never think the data was derived from auto repair quotes because that would be even more meaningless data, and no one ever mentioned this was the source (other than you).

 

[easyrider]

Do you see anywhere on that site saying anything about insurance repair quotes? Where are you getting this idea from?

I get the idea from the actual link I posted from Hedges and Company. They are talking about accidents. With an accident a person often gets a repair quote for their insurance company which is often called an insurance quote which is different from a premium quote to buy new insurance.

Bill

Tesla Demographics by Age, Income, Gender, Home Value

Tesla owners have a median age of 48 and an annual income of over $150,000. Learn more demographics about Tesla owners in this free report.

hedgescompany.com

Do Tesla owners really cause more accidents?​

According to a recent study published by LendingTree, Tesla owners have the highest accident rate of 30 vehicle brands, with 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. They got at this information by analyzing millions of insurance quotes. Only Tesla, Ram and Subaru owners had more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers.

 

[easyrider]

It is not what I (or you) think, it is what is factual and true. But I would think Lending Tree knows what their study is about more than you (or me.) Did you ignore all the quotes I put in?

But to answer your question, the reason I would think (aside from Lending tree told me so) they were using data from insurance quotes is because people have to report how many accidents they have, and they also say what kind of car they drive when they request a quote. But they don't say what kind of car they were driving when they were in an accident, only the make of the car they currently want insurance for, so really meaningless data without even correlation.

I would never think the data was derived from auto repair quotes because that would be even more meaningless data, and no one ever mentioned this was the source (other than you).

No, people don't have to do accidents unless they want their vehicle repaired by their insurance company. The key word is repaired.

Bill

 

[davidvel]

No, people don't have to do accidents unless they want their vehicle repaired by their insurance company. The key word is repaired.

Bill

Please get help.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I get the idea from the actual link I posted from Hedges and Company. They are talking about accidents. With an accident a person often gets a repair quote for their insurance company which is often called an insurance quote which is different from a premium quote to buy new insurance.

Bill

Tesla Demographics by Age, Income, Gender, Home Value

Tesla owners have a median age of 48 and an annual income of over $150,000. Learn more demographics about Tesla owners in this free report.

hedgescompany.com

Do Tesla owners really cause more accidents?​

According to a recent study published by LendingTree, Tesla owners have the highest accident rate of 30 vehicle brands, with 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. They got at this information by analyzing millions of insurance quotes. Only Tesla, Ram and Subaru owners had more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers.

Holy smokes - did you even read the statement directly from Lendingtree on the source of their data from Quotewizard? It openly and plainly states what I posted above - the verbiage I already posted is directly from the article you posted. Come on man, this is obtuse even for you.

Let’s ask AI if your theory that repair estimates, which are entirely different from price quotes for insurance policies holds any water. Please provide direct evidence of your claim that repair estimates are included anywhere in the data from Quotewizard. Hedges even openly states that the statements they are making come from Lendingtree’s Quotewizard data - not their own data. I’m sorry, but you are thoroughly confused here, and flat wrong.

LendingTree Study: Insurance Quotes, Not Repairs | Shared Grok Conversation

Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data b

grok.com

Question: Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data based upon repair estimates from actual car accidents as opposed to price quotes on new insurance policies?

Answer:

No, the underlying data in LendingTree’s QuoteWizard studies on accident rates is not based on repair estimates from actual car accidents. Instead, these studies analyze tens of millions of insurance quote requests (or “inquiries”) submitted through QuoteWizard, a LendingTree platform that helps users compare auto insurance rates. Researchers calculate incident rates—such as accidents per 1,000 drivers—by examining self-reported driving history provided during the quoting process. This history includes details like prior accidents, DUIs, speeding tickets, and citations, which drivers disclose to get accurate premium estimates.
For example:
• In the 2025 brand-specific study, data came from insurance inquiries between January 1, 2024, and December 31, 2024, focusing on the 30 car makes with the most quotes.
• Similar methodologies appear in other reports, like the 2024 city-based study (July 30, 2023–July 30, 2024) and the generational study (January 1, 2023–November 30, 2023), all relying on quote data rather than verified accident repair records or claims.
While the self-reported incidents may stem from real accidents (e.g., a driver noting a past crash to adjust their quote), the studies do not incorporate repair cost estimates, body shop data, or insurer claims files. Critics, including analyses from sources like Substack, have noted that this approach may not directly link incidents to specific vehicles (e.g., a quote for a new car after an accident in an old one), potentially introducing biases. Overall, the data reflects quoting patterns and reported behaviors, not objective accident repair metrics.


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[emeryjre]

I’m sorry, but you are thoroughly confused here, and flat wrong.

This the conclusion of Tug Readers and Members everywhere

He did figure out how to get 10K out of federal Covid funds before anyone else even knew they were available
I will give him that

 

[Ken555]

At this point I’m almost convinced easyrider is running some kind of performance art piece about the flexibility of statistics when you don’t actually read (or understand) them.

 

[davidvel]

Holy smokes - did you even read the statement directly from Lendingtree on the source of their data from Quotewizard? It openly and plainly states what I posted above - the verbiage I already posted is directly from the article you posted. Come on man, this is obtuse even for you.

Let’s ask AI if your theory that repair estimates, which are entirely different from price quotes for insurance policies holds any water. Please provide direct evidence of your claim that repair estimates are included anywhere in the data from Quotewizard. Hedges even openly states that the statements they are making come from Lendingtree’s Quotewizard data - not their own data. I’m sorry, but you are thoroughly confused here, and flat wrong.

LendingTree Study: Insurance Quotes, Not Repairs | Shared Grok Conversation

Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data b

grok.com

Question: Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data based upon repair estimates from actual car accidents as opposed to price quotes on new insurance policies?

Answer:

No, the underlying data in LendingTree’s QuoteWizard studies on accident rates is not based on repair estimates from actual car accidents. Instead, these studies analyze tens of millions of insurance quote requests (or “inquiries”) submitted through QuoteWizard, a LendingTree platform that helps users compare auto insurance rates. Researchers calculate incident rates—such as accidents per 1,000 drivers—by examining self-reported driving history provided during the quoting process. This history includes details like prior accidents, DUIs, speeding tickets, and citations, which drivers disclose to get accurate premium estimates.
For example:
• In the 2025 brand-specific study, data came from insurance inquiries between January 1, 2024, and December 31, 2024, focusing on the 30 car makes with the most quotes.
• Similar methodologies appear in other reports, like the 2024 city-based study (July 30, 2023–July 30, 2024) and the generational study (January 1, 2023–November 30, 2023), all relying on quote data rather than verified accident repair records or claims.
While the self-reported incidents may stem from real accidents (e.g., a driver noting a past crash to adjust their quote), the studies do not incorporate repair cost estimates, body shop data, or insurer claims files. Critics, including analyses from sources like Substack, have noted that this approach may not directly link incidents to specific vehicles (e.g., a quote for a new car after an accident in an old one), potentially introducing biases. Overall, the data reflects quoting patterns and reported behaviors, not objective accident repair metrics.


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The crazy thing is the "study" itself, using self reported accident stats by those getting a quote for insurance, fails to establish the "accidents per driver of x vehicle" that it purports to so.

Example:
1. How many accidents have you been in in the last 5 years? A: 3.
(Though none of those were in a Tesla, this info is not requested for the quote.)

2. What make of car do you want to insure. A: Tesla.
(They just bought the car and have never been in an accident driving it.)

However, the study concludes that the "driver of the Tesla" has a very high accident per driver rate.

Of course, the logic is entirely flawed, and establishes nothing of the sort, likewise failing to provide any data for meaningful comparison of accident rates for various makes of vehicles.

But someone writes an article about it, and people like Bill read the article and post it as though it shows Teslas are in more accidents than other makes, when of course, anyone that looks even minimally at the facts, realizes it is a garbage "study." At least it shows us why so many innocent rubes are duped by this garbage everyday, and the internet lets them spread this misinformation to thousands or even millions of people.

 

[emeryjre]

The crazy thing is the "study" itself, using self reported accident stats by those getting a quote for insurance, fails to establish the "accidents per driver of x vehicle" that it purports to so.

Example:
1. How many accidents have you been in in the last 5 years? A: 3.
(Though none of those were in a Tesla, this info is not requested for the quote.)

2. What make of car do you want to insure. A: Tesla.
(They just bought the car and have never been in an accident driving it.)

However, the study concludes that the "driver of the Tesla" has a very high accident per driver rate.

Of course, the logic is entirely flawed, and establishes nothing of the sort, likewise failing to provide any data for meaningful comparison of accident rates for various makes of vehicles.

But someone writes an article about it, and people like Bill read the article and post it as though it shows Teslas are in more accidents than other makes, when of course, anyone that looks even minimally at the facts, realizes it is a garbage "study." At least it shows us why so many innocent rubes are duped by this garbage everyday, and the internet lets them spread this misinformation to thousands or even millions of people.

The author of the article performed his task
GET CLICKS, VIEWS AND REPOSTS
The currency of the Internet

 

[easyrider]

No, the underlying data in LendingTree’s QuoteWizard studies on accident rates is not based on repair estimates from actual car accidents. Instead, these studies analyze tens of millions of insurance quote requests (or “inquiries”) submitted through QuoteWizard, a LendingTree platform that helps users compare auto insurance rates. Researchers calculate incident rates—such as accidents per 1,000 drivers—by examining self-reported driving history provided during the quoting process. This history includes details like prior accidents, DUIs, speeding tickets, and citations, which drivers disclose to get accurate premium estimates.

Think about this. If you used

Holy smokes - did you even read the statement directly from Lendingtree on the source of their data from Quotewizard? It openly and plainly states what I posted above - the verbiage I already posted is directly from the article you posted. Come on man, this is obtuse even for you.

Let’s ask AI if your theory that repair estimates, which are entirely different from price quotes for insurance policies holds any water. Please provide direct evidence of your claim that repair estimates are included anywhere in the data from Quotewizard. Hedges even openly states that the statements they are making come from Lendingtree’s Quotewizard data - not their own data. I’m sorry, but you are thoroughly confused here, and flat wrong.

LendingTree Study: Insurance Quotes, Not Repairs | Shared Grok Conversation

Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data b

grok.com

Question: Based upon the Lendingtree study on accident rates from Quotewizard, is any of the underlying data based upon repair estimates from actual car accidents as opposed to price quotes on new insurance policies?

Answer:

No, the underlying data in LendingTree’s QuoteWizard studies on accident rates is not based on repair estimates from actual car accidents. Instead, these studies analyze tens of millions of insurance quote requests (or “inquiries”) submitted through QuoteWizard, a LendingTree platform that helps users compare auto insurance rates. Researchers calculate incident rates—such as accidents per 1,000 drivers—by examining self-reported driving history provided during the quoting process. This history includes details like prior accidents, DUIs, speeding tickets, and citations, which drivers disclose to get accurate premium estimates.
For example:
• In the 2025 brand-specific study, data came from insurance inquiries between January 1, 2024, and December 31, 2024, focusing on the 30 car makes with the most quotes.
• Similar methodologies appear in other reports, like the 2024 city-based study (July 30, 2023–July 30, 2024) and the generational study (January 1, 2023–November 30, 2023), all relying on quote data rather than verified accident repair records or claims.
While the self-reported incidents may stem from real accidents (e.g., a driver noting a past crash to adjust their quote), the studies do not incorporate repair cost estimates, body shop data, or insurer claims files. Critics, including analyses from sources like Substack, have noted that this approach may not directly link incidents to specific vehicles (e.g., a quote for a new car after an accident in an old one), potentially introducing biases. Overall, the data reflects quoting patterns and reported behaviors, not objective accident repair metrics.


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Your AI needs a different query. There is no way that any data about accidents would be contrived by premium quote. The only way to get this data is through repair quotes. Cry about it forever and it won't change that fact.

Quote Wizard by itself is a lead generator for insurance premiums. Lending Tree is an insurance company lead generator. Both are lead generators. Hedges and Company specializes in marketing and is the company that provided the demographics for Tesla.

Unfortunately for you and Dave, no one is going to try to dissect the Hedges and Company data , especially those professionals that would use this as a sales tool. In fact, most media outlets are using this research. Here's a Forbes and CNN article that publicly states that Telsa drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.


Bill

Tesla Again Has The Highest Accident Rate Of Any Auto Brand

Tesla is the car brand that a study shows has been involved in the most accidents. Tesla is well known for its self-driving system, which critics argue, is the problem.

www.forbes.com

https://us.cnn.com/2024/01/18/business/why-do-people-keep-crashing-teslas/index.html

 

[Brett]

At this point I’m almost convinced easyrider is running some kind of performance art piece about the flexibility of statistics when you don’t actually read (or understand) them.

Well, his posts in the Covid threads and the investment- stock market threads, and the ............ OMG

 

[davidvel]

Well, his posts in the Covid threads and the investment- stock market threads, and the ............ OMG

He is in another universe now, completely disassociated from reality.

 

[davidvel]

Your AI needs a different query. There is no way that any data about accidents would be contrived by premium quote.

No way it would be contrived.

But certainly could be derived.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Think about this. If you used


Your AI needs a different query. There is no way that any data about accidents would be contrived by premium quote. The only way to get this data is through repair quotes. Cry about it forever and it won't change that fact.

Quote Wizard by itself is a lead generator for insurance premiums. Lending Tree is an insurance company lead generator. Both are lead generators. Hedges and Company specializes in marketing and is the company that provided the demographics for Tesla.

Unfortunately for you and Dave, no one is going to try to dissect the Hedges and Company data , especially those professionals that would use this as a sales tool. In fact, most media outlets are using this research. Here's a Forbes and CNN article that publicly states that Telsa drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.


Bill

Tesla Again Has The Highest Accident Rate Of Any Auto Brand

Tesla is the car brand that a study shows has been involved in the most accidents. Tesla is well known for its self-driving system, which critics argue, is the problem.

www.forbes.com

https://us.cnn.com/2024/01/18/business/why-do-people-keep-crashing-teslas/index.html

Straight from the CNN article:

The Highway Loss Data Institute, a US-based organization funded by the insurance industry, has not found higher crash rates for Tesla vehicles or other EVs more broadly based on overall insurance claims. Teslas do tend to have higher claim costs, though, according to the HLDI.

So as we’ve all been saying - when looking at the actual insurance claims data - the claims in these articles are false. The only way they can make these claims “true” is by using bad data from an insurance quoting service called Quotewizard - which the first article you posted directly indicates is used for the opinion piece. When looking at real data from the HLDI there’s no evidence of increasing accident rates for Tesla. Higher costs yes, higher accident rates no.


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[easyrider]

No way it would be contrived.

But certainly could be derived.

View attachment 119046

Ok, I have to admit you guys are probably right about insurance quotes versus a repair quote. A person wouldn't be contacting a lead generator for insurance companies for a repair quote. None of the articles say what type of quote but an insurance quote makes sense considering where the information comes from.

Even so, the data revealed by the questions to purchase auto insurance about accidents would apply equally to all drivers in their survey. I'm guessing that what the driver drives is the problem is what you guys are saying. If it's a National survey I think all things are equal. If it's a California survey where there are more Teslas on the road ,maybe it skews the numbers. If its a National survey probably not.

Either way, if the average demographic of a new Tesla buyer is a middle aged man buying a vehicle that does 60 mph in 2 seconds, I think there is plenty of room to think that Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Straight from the CNN article:




So as we’ve all been saying - when looking at the actual insurance claims data - the claims in these articles are false. The only way they can make these claims “true” is by using bad data from an insurance quoting service called Quotewizard - which the first article you posted directly indicates is used for the opinion piece. When looking at real data from the HLDI there’s no evidence of increasing accident rates for Tesla. Higher costs yes, higher accident rates no.


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The claim isn't about increasing accident rates of Teslas. Its about drivers of Teslas having more accidents than drivers of other vehicles. It really isn't a claim, it's just data used for a claim.

Bill

 

[Brett]

Meanwhile ......



December 5, 2025

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a69644249/china-auto-market-nevs-top-50-percent-sales/

 

[HitchHiker71]

Ok, I have to admit you guys are probably right about insurance quotes versus a repair quote. A person wouldn't be contacting a lead generator for insurance companies for a repair quote. None of the articles say what type of quote but an insurance quote makes sense considering where the information comes from.

Even so, the data revealed by the questions to purchase auto insurance about accidents would apply equally to all drivers in their survey. I'm guessing that what the driver drives is the problem is what you guys are saying. If it's a National survey I think all things are equal. If it's a California survey where there are more Teslas on the road ,maybe it skews the numbers. If its a National survey probably not.

Either way, if the average demographic of a new Tesla buyer is a middle aged man buying a vehicle that does 60 mph in 2 seconds, I think there is plenty of room to think that Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of other vehicles.

Bill

Glad to see agreement on the insurance quotes vs the insurance claims item.

On the accident rates theory, IMHO it doesn’t hold weight given the real data from the HLDI doesn’t show that correlation on a broad level. Given the HLDI is in part funded by the insurance industry, if the data showed what you’re theorizing, they would certainly call it out pay and price insurance quotes accordingly, but that’s not the case. The reason EVs, not just Teslas, have higher insurance rates is due to higher claims costs. That is accurate, and what the HLDI data shows. It does NOT show higher accident rates at a broad level.


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[HitchHiker71]

The claim isn't about increasing accident rates of Teslas. Its about drivers of Teslas having more accidents than drivers of other vehicles. It really isn't a claim, it's just data used for a claim.

Bill

Isn’t that the same thing? If Tesla drivers experience more accidents than drivers of other vehicles, then by inference Tesla vehicles have higher accident rates than other vehicles, which we know is not the case from the HLDI data.


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[easyrider]

Isn’t that the same thing? If Tesla drivers experience more accidents than drivers of other vehicles, then by inference Tesla vehicles have higher accident rates than other vehicles, which we know is not the case from the HLDI data.


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When answering the questions asked to purchase auto insurance, there is a question pertaining to accidents or claims. If a person answers yes, the follow up questions likely ask the type of claim and the type of vehicle. I've never been this far on our policy renewals so I'm only guessing.

Using this data , it was determined that drivers of Teslas have a higher accident rate than drivers of other vehicles which makes sense as vehicles can't have a driving accident without a driver. It has nothing to do with the vehicle and everything to do with the driver.

Tesla vehicles having a higher accident rate would be a different question than Tesla drivers having a higher accident rate. The difference is a higher vehicle accident rate would suggest a design flaw while a higher driver accident rate suggests behavioral attributes as a cause.

While the data provided by Quote Wizard is correct in their dataset regarding the demographic predictions, it only applies to drivers that were queried. This is a valid flaw I think Dave brought up earlier when saying the data was meaningless. For marketing purposes, the data is useful to specialized industries to which it was compiled to serve.

Bill