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Yet another wrong move by Marriott-bye bye all-inclusive packages

winger

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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17300405-post6.html

And the word on the street is Marriott decides not to give customers any notice. I think this is yet another bad move by Marriott, not only are they once again devaluing their reward points, they are also showing they have little regard for their customers. Think of the members who have been saving up for one of these packages just to have the carpet pulled out from under them without any warning.
 

dougp26364

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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17300405-post6.html

And the word on the street is Marriott decides not to give customers any notice. I think this is yet another bad move by Marriott, not only are they once again devaluing their reward points, they are also showing they have little regard for their customers. Think of the members who have been saving up for one of these packages just to have the carpet pulled out from under them without any warning.

The report of their death is apparently exagerated:

From your own link

Marriott Concierge
Company Representative


Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 310 Bearcat Drive, Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 945 Hello all,

To help clear up some confusion, The All Inclusive Reward has been discontinued as of Oct. 17th.

The Travel Package Rewards are not gone and can still be ordered. Kind regards,

Marie
 

winger

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Hi Doug.
I am referring to the all-inclusive rewards that provides/includes hotel, food and kids activities at approximately 6 or 7 Marriott Resorts in areas such as Mexico, Costa Rica, caribbean, etc. These awards costed 70k - 90k MRPs (depending on # of nights stayed). These are great for family of four (the awards covers 2 adults and kids under 12 yo) like ours. The Marriott Concierge's reference are to other travel packages that Marriott Members can obtain, which for now are untouched.
 

dougp26364

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Spinnaker French Quarter Resort Branson
Got it. I read the Marriott reps post wrong. The AI are gone, the travel packages are still there.

I didn't even know they had AI packages so I guess I won't miss them much.

I've stopped collecting MR points. They've become worthless enough to me that we've started burning them on individual hotel nights. Since there's now a yearly fee to keep the card, I'm debating dropping it. As it is we rarely use it where it use to be our everyday card.
 
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bogey21

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I traveled a lot when I was working and stayed almost exclusively at Marriotts. I also owned 5 Marriott timeshare weeks which from time to time I converted into points. These points provided great vacations for our family. I even used them for a week's golf school for my Son. I was a highly satisfied Marriott customer. A number of years ago when Marriott started changing things unilaterally with little notice I sold my Timeshare Weeks, used up all my Rewards Points, and totally stopped using Marriott for anything.

George
 

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I traveled a lot when I was working and stayed almost exclusively at Marriotts. I also owned 5 Marriott timeshare weeks which from time to time I converted into points. These points provided great vacations for our family. I even used them for a week's golf school for my Son. I was a highly satisfied Marriott customer. A number of years ago when Marriott started changing things unilaterally with little notice I sold my Timeshare Weeks, used up all my Rewards Points, and totally stopped using Marriott for anything.

George

So this brings up an interesting point. I am new to timeshares and looking to buy one on the resale market seeing the prices have taken a nose dive. With all the changes in the Marriott system and not having access to dc points am I making a mistake for looking at Marriott??? Are there any other timeshare systems where I will get more bang for my buck??? Maybe I should ask this in the general forum where I won't get Marriott biased answers :rofl: But looking to get everyone's opinion...
 

bogey21

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The last Marriott I sold was Monarch on HHI. My Week was fixed and I could exchange with both RCI and II. I would buy the right fixed week at Monarch again and would consider any other Marriott where I could get a fixed week. None of this floating stuff and none of their new program.

George
 

pwrshift

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RamMan...I wouldn't buy any Marriott TS for trading. Just buy where you'd want to go every year for a very long time. Trading through II is really bad now, and unless Marriott dumps them on II before they expire you just can't count on them, especially if you fly on points and need to book 330 days ahead.

For years I've been a big supporter of Marriott and used their MR program to a great extent...several million of them for wonderful package holidays around the world on biz class air. But that was when I got 110,000 MR poins in exchange for the $500-600MF on Manor Club and Canyon Villas...but at $1000 it's not such a good deal as the points you get never went up.

Marriott has committed to the DC program and that's their future, not weeks. I think it was a bad decision poorly done, and sold all MAR stock and the TS may be next.
 

Rodenwjr

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So what rewards/points card did any of you switch to if you dont use the Marriott card anymore? Which one do you find the best bang for your buck?

Bill
 

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So what rewards/points card did any of you switch to if you dont use the Marriott card anymore? Which one do you find the best bang for your buck?

Bill
I totally agree that the Marriott rewards system has become so chintzy that it's absolutely not worth participating. A true cash back rewards card is altogether better.

The best commonly accessible rewards card I know right now is the 2% unlimited cash back Amex card offered by Fidelity to brokerage account owners. The rebate is credited directly to the account. There would, I assume, be no problem in pulling the cash out, if you wanted. Or, you could invest the money, which is what they're hoping you'll do.
You could also contact Bank of America and ask if they'll give you a preferential rate on their rewards Visa. At present, I get 2% back, with a 25% kicker if I redeem $300 or more, a total of 2.5% cash back, unlimited. I don't know how long that gravy train will run, but I'm on board until ...
 

jimf41

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I totally agree that the Marriott rewards system has become so chintzy that it's absolutely not worth participating. A true cash back rewards card is altogether better.

The best commonly accessible rewards card I know right now is the 2% unlimited cash back Amex card offered by Fidelity to brokerage account owners. The rebate is credited directly to the account. There would, I assume, be no problem in pulling the cash out, if you wanted. Or, you could invest the money, which is what they're hoping you'll do.
You could also contact Bank of America and ask if they'll give you a preferential rate on their rewards Visa. At present, I get 2% back, with a 25% kicker if I redeem $300 or more, a total of 2.5% cash back, unlimited. I don't know how long that gravy train will run, but I'm on board until ...

That's a pretty good deal if you want the cash instead of a vacation. I did some math this morning to actually see how many points I earn per $ spent on my Marriott Premiere CC. So I added up all the money spent on the card for 2010 and divided it into the MRPs I got. Turns out I earn 2.49 MRPs per $ spent. I was surprised. I thought it would be higher than that.

So I did some more math and this is what I came up with. The most expensive travel package I found was for seven days in a CAT 8 along with 120,000 FF miles. It's 360,000 MRPs. Figuring backward I would have to spend $148,578 to earn that many points. At 2.5% cash back I would receive $3614.

The 360,000 seven day TP will get me two RT tickets from JFK to FCO (Rome) and seven nights in the Grand Flora in a queen room. According to Orbitz those tickets would cost $1181 each or $2362. The room would cost $3800 for a total of $6162. Of course you would get 2.5% back on that $6162 so that brings the cost down to $6008. An additional $2394 for the same trip. In addition to the cost difference the Marriott card gives me one free night in a CAT 5 every year, 15 nights toward my elite status and because that gives me at least gold status I get a free breakfast at the Grand Flora every day.

I guess the moral of this story is if you want cash back to pay bills get a cash back card. If you want to travel get a travel reward card. I don't know if Marriotts travel card is the best travel card but it's not bad IMO. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who uses the Starwood Amex. I've heard that's about the best travel card.
 

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The general view in this thread has been that this was a bad move by Marriott Int. at the center. There is the possibility that the resorts themselves have decided to ditch this benefit since it maybe was costing them too much and Marriott just gets the flack for the option being pulled.
 

winger

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... I think it was a bad decision poorly done, ..
Companies have a right to make money, and companies make bad moves...however, when a company starts doing several things deemed 'not customer-friendly' in quick succession, it makes one pause and ask whether that company is something worth being associated with as a customer.

Don't get me wrong, we have Marriott TS's and credit cards, have enrolled in the DC and will continue to use the products as we have invested a good amount of $ and time in Marriott as one of our go-to vehicles for family vacations, however, as a customer, I am not happy with the direction Marriott has taken in the past few years.

Three years ago, I stopped recommending Marriott timeshares to friends, family and coworkers. We are considering cancelling our two Marriott Premier Visa cards (for other cards that offer potentially better benefits to us). One day, we may reconsider passing the TS down to our kids as planned. But for now, Marriott is another 'necessary evil' to deal with in life.
 

dougp26364

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So what rewards/points card did any of you switch to if you dont use the Marriott card anymore? Which one do you find the best bang for your buck?

Bill

Right now I'm using cards that give us FF miles. On many of our purchases we receive 2 miles per dollar spent.
 
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winger

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Right now I'm using cards that give us FF miles.
We too have been using a card that gives FF miles since November 2010.

We are only keepin the two Marriott black Premiere cards for the two annual anniversary certificates, paying Marriott MF's and incidentals at Marriott stays, and the very high credit limit (helps with credit scores).
 

IngridN

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We too have been using a card that gives FF miles since November 2010.

We are only keepin the two Marriott black Premiere cards for the two annual anniversary certificates, paying Marriott MF's and incidentals at Marriott stays, and the very high credit limit (helps with credit scores).

This is also our current strategy. Additionally, we have the Costco AmEx card which we maximize for the 1-3% cash back which yields us about $300/year. DH travels a lot and uses personal cc's and we really rack up the points and $s back. We're saving up for when he retires as we've gotten used to paying for our non-timeshare vacations with points!

Ingrid
 

SueDonJ

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The general view in this thread has been that this was a bad move by Marriott Int. at the center. There is the possibility that the resorts themselves have decided to ditch this benefit since it maybe was costing them too much and Marriott just gets the flack for the option being pulled.

That's what I'm thinking, that the resorts may have had more to do with this decision than Marriott did. There's not much Marriott can do if the resorts lay down their own laws.

I'm also wondering - if you exchange MR Points for gift cards that you can use to pay the bill for incidentals at the resort, are you getting a similar return as if you used MRP for the all-inclusive benefit? I have no idea, it's just a thought.
 

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That's a pretty good deal if you want the cash instead of a vacation. I did some math this morning to actually see how many points I earn per $ spent on my Marriott Premiere CC. So I added up all the money spent on the card for 2010 and divided it into the MRPs I got. Turns out I earn 2.49 MRPs per $ spent. I was surprised. I thought it would be higher than that.

So I did some more math and this is what I came up with. The most expensive travel package I found was for seven days in a CAT 8 along with 120,000 FF miles. It's 360,000 MRPs. Figuring backward I would have to spend $148,578 to earn that many points. At 2.5% cash back I would receive $3614.

The 360,000 seven day TP will get me two RT tickets from JFK to FCO (Rome) and seven nights in the Grand Flora in a queen room. According to Orbitz those tickets would cost $1181 each or $2362. The room would cost $3800 for a total of $6162. Of course you would get 2.5% back on that $6162 so that brings the cost down to $6008. An additional $2394 for the same trip. In addition to the cost difference the Marriott card gives me one free night in a CAT 5 every year, 15 nights toward my elite status and because that gives me at least gold status I get a free breakfast at the Grand Flora every day.

I guess the moral of this story is if you want cash back to pay bills get a cash back card. If you want to travel get a travel reward card. I don't know if Marriotts travel card is the best travel card but it's not bad IMO. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who uses the Starwood Amex. I've heard that's about the best travel card.
Hmm, you paint a rosy picture. But I see several problems in the scenario. You say you get 2.5 Marriott rewards points for each dollar spent; then talk about what you could do with 360,000 points. Well, have you REALLY spent $144,000 on your card? I think you're extrapolating from a far lower dollar amount, one which is probably heavily weighted towards Marriott travel. Of course, you earn lots of points for spending Marriott. But, unless you're camping out at there all the time (and some folks do, of course), I suspect you didn't snag 360,000 points this year (or even over several years) on straight purchases.
The way I got a slog of Marriott points originally was to buy a timeshare and then open a Marriott credit card. That felt great, but the points were really a rebate, and in no way represented a renewable total. More recently I opened two black Visas (my wife and me), for a combined 100,000 points. I used them up, and am now left with actually spending money. And, most of what I spend qualifies for 1 point per dollar. I think your surprisingly low 2.5 average reflects this disappointing fact: beyond a certain spending level, you don't accumulate additional points very rapidly at all.
Now, to your Rome scenario. Have you actually succeeded in booking two tickets to Rome for 60,000 frequent flyer miles each? I have tried repeatedly, both domestically and abroad, to find offerings at the minimal levels on many airlines. I have given up in utter frustration. I think you'd need twice the miles, most of the time, to snag those tickets.
I looked at the Grand Flora for seven nights in July, 2012, and saw a price of $2800, $1000 less than the value you ascribe to the package. And that thing about getting 2.5% back on your package? Come on, you're using points. You don't get cash back on points, as opposed to booking on a card. Bottom line, I think your statement that you could save $2400 is far-fetched.
The point about keeping a card is good, of course. I maintain both of ours to snag that free night and work on elite status.
 

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Old Pantry,

No I do not spend $144,000 per year on my CC. I don't even make $144,000 a year. But what difference does the amount make. That's how much you have to spend to get a cash refund of $3614 or accumulate 360,000 points. I easily spend $50000 on the card and it would take 3 years of that spending to get the same points or cash refund. The secret to Super Saver miles is book as far out as your allowed. AA has the best program IMO but Marriott doesn't support it anymore. So, like Doug, I was forced to get an airline card. They don't accumulate points anywhere near as fast as a Marriott card but if you want to fly AA with points it's the only game in town.

As far as the Grand Flora charging you only $2800 I think you ought to look closer at the rate. It's not in $$$ it's in Euros. I used a conversion rate of $1.37 per Euro to come up with the $3800 figure.

This is from the Grand Floras website.


Summary of Room Charges Cost per night per room (EUR)

Saturday, July 7, 2012 - Saturday, July 14, 2012 (7 nights) 389.00
Best Available rate
Estimated government taxes and fees 3.00
Total for stay (per room) 2,744.00

Now to the airline FF miles. I planned my test trip in September. As far out as I could book them, I think September 20th was the 331 day cut off. I checked this morning on AA and they had two dates that I could fly over and back for the Super Saver 30k ticket. Four tickets is 120k miles. Upon reading your post and re-checking those seats are gone and now they are 60k each. That's how fast they go and that's how quick you have to be to get them. If you wait till late Octobers seats will become available and they will be more plentiful as the heavy tourist season winds down. I did check in July just for fun and I was surprised to find that there were 30k seats available on July 17,19 and 21 for the trip over. None for the return unfortunately.

Look, I consider myself a rank amateur at this FF miles stuff. I suggest you go over to FlyerTalk where the professionals hang out. Those folks know their stuff about airlines just like the folks here on TUG are the pro's when it comes to timeshares.

As far as the points per $ decreasing the longer you own the card I'd disagree. Every year I buy $2500 in gift cards when the December promotion comes up and I get 30 points per $. During the year I earn a lot less than that but it pumps up your yearly average. I think I've had the Premiere card for about 6 years now.
 

m61376

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Can you use those gift cards any longer to pay the annual MF's? I guess I deserve a big "duh" for this, but I am at the point where I realize that my cc points program has so deteriorated that I really need to switch my major card, and I was debating between the Marriott card and a Chase Sapphire, or maybe the Capital OneVenture. Getting 60,000+ points just to pay the MF's would be a great deal if it was still doable and may make that card the one to get.
 

jimf41

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Last year some folks managed to pay their MFs with the cards with a little finagling. This year they have changed the card so I don't think it will be possible. Also there is no guarantee that they will offer the 10 point bonus for buying the card again. Without the bonus there is no real advantage to gift cards IMO.
 

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Old Pantry,

No I do not spend $144,000 per year on my CC. I don't even make $144,000 a year. But what difference does the amount make. That's how much you have to spend to get a cash refund of $3614 or accumulate 360,000 points. I easily spend $50000 on the card and it would take 3 years of that spending to get the same points or cash refund. The secret to Super Saver miles is book as far out as your allowed. AA has the best program IMO but Marriott doesn't support it anymore. So, like Doug, I was forced to get an airline card. They don't accumulate points anywhere near as fast as a Marriott card but if you want to fly AA with points it's the only game in town.

As far as the Grand Flora charging you only $2800 I think you ought to look closer at the rate. It's not in $$$ it's in Euros. I used a conversion rate of $1.37 per Euro to come up with the $3800 figure.

This is from the Grand Floras website.


Summary of Room Charges Cost per night per room (EUR)

Saturday, July 7, 2012 - Saturday, July 14, 2012 (7 nights) 389.00
Best Available rate
Estimated government taxes and fees 3.00
Total for stay (per room) 2,744.00

Now to the airline FF miles. I planned my test trip in September. As far out as I could book them, I think September 20th was the 331 day cut off. I checked this morning on AA and they had two dates that I could fly over and back for the Super Saver 30k ticket. Four tickets is 120k miles. Upon reading your post and re-checking those seats are gone and now they are 60k each. That's how fast they go and that's how quick you have to be to get them. If you wait till late Octobers seats will become available and they will be more plentiful as the heavy tourist season winds down. I did check in July just for fun and I was surprised to find that there were 30k seats available on July 17,19 and 21 for the trip over. None for the return unfortunately.

Look, I consider myself a rank amateur at this FF miles stuff. I suggest you go over to FlyerTalk where the professionals hang out. Those folks know their stuff about airlines just like the folks here on TUG are the pro's when it comes to timeshares.

As far as the points per $ decreasing the longer you own the card I'd disagree. Every year I buy $2500 in gift cards when the December promotion comes up and I get 30 points per $. During the year I earn a lot less than that but it pumps up your yearly average. I think I've had the Premiere card for about 6 years now.
Oops, and sorry. I missed the Euro conversion. So, the hotel could be a good deal with points. At 240,000 points for a week (yeah, I know you're talking about a 360k bundling package, but bear with me), you'd need to spend $96,000 to accumulate the points for that hotel. The $3800 cost of the hotel compares very favorably to the $2400 you'd get on a 2.5% cash back. And the additional spending of $48,000 for 120,000 FF miles sounds cheap.
Still, I see problems. I noticed, for example, that you can't use Marriott points at the Casa Flora for July, 2012. Are you sure a hotel/flight combo would be accepted? If not, then the great combo package deal loses luster.
Your observations about FF miles reinforce my point, I think. You found a way to get to Rome in July, but no way back. You researched AA, the most "user-friendly" program, but admit that AA doesn't work with Marriott. I can only repeat that I (and many others as well) have encountered huge frustration in trying to nail down FF tickets going where we want when we want. As a practical matter, I think you would end up having to use 240,000 FF miles for two round trips to Rome in July, which is a different kettle of fish.

My point about card spending levels wasn't about time, but rather volume. Once you're past the obvious Marriott-specific purchases (hotels, MFs, gift-card tricks), you face the dreaded chintzy 1 point / dollar for further purchases. Incremental spending does little good. It's like stepping on the gas, and having the car stall out.

So, I think a better strategy is to be disciplined in using the Marriott card for Marriott-specific spending (where multiple points are earned for each $1 spent). EVENTUALLY (we're talking years for most folks) you'll accumulate enough points for a cost-effective exchange. (Just pray that Marriott doesn't devalue the program yet again in the meantime.) That free night every year is a plus (although its value is diluted by the annual cost of the card). While you're waiting, I would enjoy the immediate rewards resulting from using a generous cash-back card for the bulk of non-travel non-Marriott purchases.

Does that make sense?
 

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jimf41 vs. OldPantry:
The winner by a knockout: jimf41. Really no contest.
 

dioxide45

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jimf41 vs. OldPantry:
The winner by a knockout: jimf41. Really no contest.

Gee... I didn't know it was a contest. And even more, that you were the judge.

I think the fact remains that unless you can get more than 2.5 cents per point on MRP redemption, a 2.5% cash back award card is better than earning a paltry 1 point per dollar on the Marriott Chase card. Earning 3 or 5 points per dollar for Marriott purchases is a no brainer.
 
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jimf41

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Like a lot of threads on TUG this one is getting a little personal. It shouldn't. Old Pantry and I were having a public discussion of how best to get the most bang for your buck with the use of CC's. He made some points, I made some points but everyone else can read this thread and maybe pick up some pointers on CC use that they were previously unaware of. To me that's what TUG or any other topic specific blog is about.

I like reward cards rather than cash back cards. Old Pantry feels it works better with the cash back system. Having a good discussion of the merits of each is helpful to everybody.
 
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