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Yesterday Bought 105k points + 2 PICs = VIP Bronze for $18,000. Rescind? Or a reasonable deal?

Eric B

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I also hear 'Buy points on eBay' but when I go to eBay I can find only timeshares to purchase.
Try this search on eBay. Skip the ones that are WorldMark and the ones that don't list the number of points they come with; the latter could be just weeks that are at a Wyndham-managed resort and are not converted to Wyndham points.


Compare the different resorts based on the maintenance fees, consulting the link below for reference. Differences could be due to being converted weeks.


Go Resale but With 200K points and Keep South Africa Timshares
Resale MF for 200,000 points: ~1,300 ($6.5 per 1,000 pts)
Wyndham Program cost: $189 (60 cents/ 1000)
RCI Annual Fees: ~$80
MF on SA Timeshares: $500
3% annual investment return on saved up-front costs: (~$500)
As noted by @Ty1on, program fees on resale points would be $0.64/K with a minimum of $165 annually (2021 numbers). For developer points it would be $0.66/K with a minimum of $185. If you have mixed points in an account, you pay the $0.66/K.

One other item you don't seem to be taking into account is the exchange fees for the SA timeshares.
 

owebeewan

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"Buy points on ebay" means to find a Wyndham Points Contract on EBay. Or Worldmark points, of course.
Try this search on eBay.
Thank you. I looked at them all in detail. Do you recommend CWA points or a deeded property backing the points? I will actually visit Myrtle Beach or Florida Beaches in the spring or fall once in a while. I'm wondering if I would save exchange fees if I bought points with a backing deed at those locations? Likewise, if I bought CWA and those locations are within CWA, would I need to pay an exchange fee?

In short: Is there any advantage of buying points with a deeded property vs CWA?
 

Ty1on

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Thank you. I looked at them all in detail. Do you recommend CWA points or a deeded property backing the points? I will actually visit Myrtle Beach or Florida Beaches in the spring or fall once in a while. I'm wondering if I would save exchange fees if I bought points with a backing deed at those locations? Likewise, if I bought CWA and those locations are within CWA, would I need to pay an exchange fee?

In short: Is there any advantage of buying points with a deeded property vs CWA?
There are no exchange fees when using any Wyndham Points within the Club Wyndham system, your Program Fees pay for that (whether you book or not). The distinction of where you own comes into play with advance reservation priority. You can reserve your home resort (or with CWA, trust-owned reservations at any of the CWA resorts) 13 months in advance of check-in date, and other resorts 10 months in advance. If you will typically want to use a specific resort at their highest occupancy times, like holidays or special events like Daytona Bike Week or Mardi Gras, then it makes sense to buy a contract for that resort. Otherwise, "points are points" and you want to find the lowest Maintenance Fees. Many resorts have higher maintenance fees than CWA, some have lower. Typically, lower maintenance fee resorts will get bid higher on EBay than higher ones. But the difference may be a couple thousand at most.

Editing to add: Your questions reveal that you should absolutely rescind this purchase and learn completely about the Wyndham system (and others, there may be one that works better for YOU) before purchasing anything at all.
 

Eric B

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Thank you. I looked at them all in detail. Do you recommend CWA points or a deeded property backing the points? I will actually visit Myrtle Beach or Florida Beaches in the spring or fall once in a while. I'm wondering if I would save exchange fees if I bought points with a backing deed at those locations? Likewise, if I bought CWA and those locations are within CWA, would I need to pay an exchange fee?

In short: Is there any advantage of buying points with a deeded property vs CWA?
It would probably be worth reading up as much as you can on the Club Wyndham system to figure out if it will really work for you and how it will work for you before you commit. There's a lot of good info in the stickies. Re: exchange fees, there aren't really exchange fees per se for booking a stay within Club Wyndham. Instead, the program fees cover exchanges to a certain allowance. In the Club Wyndham system, you'll get one housekeeping credit (HK) for every 70,000 points you own (contracted, not PIC) and one reservation transaction (RT) for every 77,000 points. Booking a stay will cost you 1 HK from the calendar year the stay is in and will use up 1 RT. You can pay for additional HKs and RTs if you need them, though.

For booking within 10 months of the check in date, there is no real difference between deeded, (a.k.a. Club Wyndham Select or CWS) and CWA. There are some minor differences for specific CWS deeds such as Outrigger Resort Clubs in Hawaii, Margaritaville, and Myrtle Beach ones, but they don't make a significant difference you would need to be aware of at this point. Between 13 months prior and 10 months prior, CWS and CWA can provide different eligibility to book a particular stay, but it has never mattered in my experience. Because of that, a CWS ownership in a resort with low MFs is preferable to me over a CWA ownership.
 

Eric B

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Your questions reveal that you should absolutely rescind this purchase and learn completely about the Wyndham system (and others, there may be one that works better for YOU) before purchasing anything at all.
Well said - I completely agree with that!
 

bnoble

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It would probably be worth reading up as much as you can on the Club Wyndham system to figure out if it will really work for you and how it will work for you before you commit.
I agree with this. Based on the questions you are asking, there is a lot about the system you don't understand. Do a little legwork, and then decide what sort of ownership would meet your needs. After you do that, you can figure out whether a resale or a developer purchase makes more sense for that use case. After you do both of these, then you'll be ready to sign on the line which is dotted.

The directory has a good explanation of the overall system: pages 246 through 251, inclusive, is the core of the program. There are lots of bells and whistles on top of this, but this is a good start.

 

auntiepen

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It would probably be worth reading up as much as you can on the Club Wyndham system to figure out if it will really work for you and how it will work for you before you commit. There's a lot of good info in the stickies. Re: exchange fees, there aren't really exchange fees per se for booking a stay within Club Wyndham. Instead, the program fees cover exchanges to a certain allowance. In the Club Wyndham system, you'll get one housekeeping credit (HK) for every 70,000 points you own (contracted, not PIC) and one reservation transaction (RT) for every 77,000 points. Booking a stay will cost you 1 HK from the calendar year the stay is in and will use up 1 RT. You can pay for additional HKs and RTs if you need them, though.

For booking within 10 months of the check in date, there is no real difference between deeded, (a.k.a. Club Wyndham Select or CWS) and CWA. There are some minor differences for specific CWS deeds such as Outrigger Resort Clubs in Hawaii, Margaritaville, and Myrtle Beach ones, but they don't make a significant difference you would need to be aware of at this point. Between 13 months prior and 10 months prior, CWS and CWA can provide different eligibility to book a particular stay, but it has never mattered in my experience. Because of that, a CWS ownership in a resort with low MFs is preferable to me over a CWA ownership.
I really like the way you explained the Wyndham system. I have never pay too much attention on how much I paid to add the points to the Wyndham. We used to have deed and then CWA back and forth every time we added more points. I don’t think they ever really explained that to us. We thought as long as we can be platinum and book resort in Hawaii every year in high season it will make us happy. Until the pandemic hit and no traveling for a while. Now I have time to look up my account and realized that we paid so much money into this. I will do my calculation and will come back with more questions. I’m sure we were over paid them. By the way, who is the telesales you guys are talking about. Where can I find them? What’s their phone numbers? Are these telesales handle the resale points and deeds?
 

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I really like the way you explained the Wyndham system. I have never pay too much attention on how much I paid to add the points to the Wyndham. We used to have deed and then CWA back and forth every time we added more points. I don’t think they ever really explained that to us. We thought as long as we can be platinum and book resort in Hawaii every year in high season it will make us happy. Until the pandemic hit and no traveling for a while. Now I have time to look up my account and realized that we paid so much money into this. I will do my calculation and will come back with more questions. I’m sure we were over paid them. By the way, who is the telesales you guys are talking about. Where can I find them? What’s their phone numbers? Are these telesales handle the resale points and deeds?
Telesales doesn't handle resale. They are able to sell contracts to people who actually want them and don't need to be lured into a sales presentation. Because of this, the cost can be a little less.

As far as what you've spent on your ownership, it's water under the bridge at this point, no?
 

auntiepen

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Telesales doesn't handle resale. They are able to sell contracts to people who actually want them and don't need to be lured into a sales presentation. Because of this, the cost can be a little less.

As far as what you've spent on your ownership, it's water under the bridge at this point, no?
Yes, I’m afraid to do the calculation on how much we have spent. But I want to find out so I’ll be brave and dug out all the purchases. I did not realize that there is Wyndham program fee, there is the way to calculate the maintenance fee. Should I convert CWA to deed if I want to lower the MF I wonder? I’m platinum with a bit over 1million points (2 pics) till June next year. I believe they changed the points requirement to be platinum sometime ago right. At this point I just try to make the best use of it.
 

Ty1on

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Yes, I’m afraid to do the calculation on how much we have spent. But I want to find out so I’ll be brave and dug out all the purchases. I did not realize that there is Wyndham program fee, there is the way to calculate the maintenance fee. Should I convert CWA to deed if I want to lower the MF I wonder? I’m platinum with a bit over 1million points (2 pics) till June next year. I believe they changed the points requirement to be platinum sometime ago right. At this point I just try to make the best use of it.
When you say "till June next year," what changes, do you have PIC Express?

I wouldn't switch out any more contracts, no matter what the salesmen tell you. Even if your fees go down, it would take decades for the savings to recover your up-front costs.
 

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@Ty1on I’m not sure why my platinum status will expire in June. I just saw it from my account said will expire in June 2022. My 2 PICs should be good. Maybe you need more than 1m points to be a platinum. I’m going to Oceanside CA next month so they will probably try to get me to do the update. I can find out then just have to not fall into their trap again.
 

cbyrne1174

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Rescind and if you want VIP Bronze, just buy the minimum amount of CWA points needed to get to 300,000 from telesales. It's always cheaper than at a resort. CWA points are also lower in maintenance fees. Last I heard, you could get VIP bronze that route with a little under 10k.
 

Ty1on

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@Ty1on I’m not sure why my platinum status will expire in June. I just saw it from my account said will expire in June 2022. My 2 PICs should be good. Maybe you need more than 1m points to be a platinum. I’m going to Oceanside CA next month so they will probably try to get me to do the update. I can find out then just have to not fall into their trap again.
Do you have any bonus points?
 

owebeewan

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Rescinded today! Many, many thanks to those who helped, especially @Ty1on, @bnoble and @Eric B

just buy the minimum amount of CWA points needed to get to 300,000 from telesales.
can you please supply a very specific reference to “telesales”? Perhaps a site or one phone? It has been asked in this thread at least three times but still it’s just a word. It’s not in the manual and I could not find it in the sticky threads.
 

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Do you have any bonus points?
Yes I have bonus points172000 points. I think it’s reason my status will be expired. I need to do some calculation on how many points I will have after this bonus points is gone. How many points do I need to be a platinum? Is the grandfather member exempted?
 

Ty1on

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Yes I have bonus points172000 points. I think it’s reason my status will be expired. I need to do some calculation on how many points I will have after this bonus points is gone. How many points do I need to be a platinum? Is the grandfather member exempted?
Thats the problem, as I understand it, after bonus expires, you wont have enough grandfathered points. So if you are exactly at 1m qualifying points now, you would need to add 272k to qualify as an ungrandfathered platinum. Even at 200 per K, you need to determine whether platinum benefits, which seem to be getting ever thinner, are worth another $55K sunk into a new contract.....
 

kaljor

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I don’t want to be a Debbie Downer, but I have found it difficult to believe
that VIP membership has any real value whatsoever since the recent changes

To me, the only two really valuable benefits of VIP ownership have been taken away. Namely the unlimited housekeeping credits and the ability to have any and all resale points you own as a VIP get all those VIP benefits apply to them.

I absolutely believe that VIP status as a new buyer has almost zero value. The only valuable benefit that I see remaining is the unit upgrades and discounts. But from what I read here, the automatic upgrades after you book are nearly non existent., instant upgrades still apparently still work OK. And I’ve always wondered what the value is of an automatic upgrade that might come through 7 days before your trip is to begin. I stayed with my brother and his wife some years ago at Sea Watch to help them move into a new home in Myrtle Beach. The late upgrade from a two bedroom to a three was of no value. We still only needed 2 bedrooms.

And are there really any desirable reservations available at 60 days prior? Maybe for a small subset of folks who love a particular resort in a non prime time season.

If you can get a Wyndham VIP account through the PIC program with favorable maintenance costs on your PIC properties, you may find some value in the program. But its a lot harder than it used to be.
 

bendadin

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can you please supply a very specific reference to “telesales”? Perhaps a site or one phone? It has been asked in this thread at least three times but still it’s just a word. It’s not in the manual and I could not find it in the sticky threads.
They are specific sales offices that are not part of a resort. They can only do CWA now. If I had to take a guess, they are a specific office inside a "home" office where you will be or have been assigned. I know that there is Orlando, Salt Lake City and Vegas. There was one in Washington state as well. These locations correspond with the larger "owner" locations.

Let the rescission settle down. Nobody can talk to you until that is accepted anyway. But if they begin to cross you will have a battle of contract in, contract out. I bought a large contract around the $130 range. If I had broken it in 4 smaller contracts it would have been more like $139. I did get matching bonus points.

All of that being said, let's look at the Bronze benefits:

VIP Phone line, meh
15% discount at 60 day or less bookings: If you book then fine. Wyndham does have larger discounts close in for any owner.
Suite Upgrade Opt-in 15 days: So if an owner doesn't want to lose their points, they have to cancel by 15 days out. Might you get an upgrade? Yes. But in order to see that upgrade you will have lost your ability to cancel the reservation unless you bought $149 points protection. Additionally, all upgrade requests come down at 4 days out so it isn't a very long window at all.
Point deposit: 4 months instead of 3. Does it have some value? Yes. But not all that much.
Complimentary Guest Confirmations: 3 instead of 2. $99 value
Reciprocal ARP 1 per year: Only good if you need it.
More Time to convert to Maintenance Fees: If you think that you will need to do this, don't buy.
Early Access to Margaritaville: Meh. If that is where you want to go except the one that is solely Margaritaville is blocked from this. All the others have general Club Wyndham units.
VIP Check-in: ??? as I have never had the pleasure.

At Bronze level you do not get:

Unlimited Housekeeping ($159 per after initial 1 per 70k owned.)
Unlimited reservation transactions ($19 per after the initial 1 per 77k owned.) Free at GOLD
Early Check-in

Benefits increase as the money spent increases. Losing the ability to get unlimited housekeeping is HUGE.
 

Cyrus24

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@Ty1on I’m not sure why my platinum status will expire in June. I just saw it from my account said will expire in June 2022. My 2 PICs should be good. Maybe you need more than 1m points to be a platinum. I’m going to Oceanside CA next month so they will probably try to get me to do the update. I can find out then just have to not fall into their trap again.
My account says Platinum, expires 12/31/21 even though I have had more than 1MM points (with PIC's) since late 2019. I contacted Owner Care recently and on their end, the account does not have an expiration date. I suspect it's related to the bonus contract I was given with my last purchase. Frequently the bonus contracts throw a person into the next tier. In my case, it did not, I was Platinum with or without a bonus contract. You may be in the same situation. Were you given bonus points with a new purchase in the last 2 years? Also, contact Owner Care about the expiration date, do not ask Sales!!! Sales will just try to sell you up to 1.1MM points as a way to 'solve the problem'. 1.1MM points is not required for Platinum if you've had more than 1MM points since before the most recent tier changes.
 

Ty1on

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1.1MM points is not required for Platinum if you've had more than 1MM points since before the most recent tier changes.
* without the benefit of expiring Bonus points to have gotten you to 1MM
 

Eric B

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My account says Platinum, expires 12/31/21 even though I have had more than 1MM points (with PIC's) since late 2019. I contacted Owner Care recently and on their end, the account does not have an expiration date. I suspect it's related to the bonus contract I was given with my last purchase. Frequently the bonus contracts throw a person into the next tier. In my case, it did not, I was Platinum with or without a bonus contract. You may be in the same situation. Were you given bonus points with a new purchase in the last 2 years? Also, contact Owner Care about the expiration date, do not ask Sales!!! Sales will just try to sell you up to 1.1MM points as a way to 'solve the problem'. 1.1MM points is not required for Platinum if you've had more than 1MM points since before the most recent tier changes.
Mine says temporary gold with an expiration date some of the time and some of the time it just says gold. I think it’s caused by the order in which the contracts are listed when it checks; if an old bonus contract comes up first it shows an expiration date. Not a great implementation of the system. I plain to ask them to delete the old contract and use year, which was realigned and has no points left, once the end date passes.
 

Cyrus24

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* without the benefit of expiring Bonus points to have gotten you to 1MM
I had 1,008,000 in Nov 2019 with an additional 149,000 in bonus points that were added in Nov 2019. My account has had the expire date since that last purchase, in Nov 2019. Owner Care assured me that my 1,008,000 developer ownership I had when the new tiers rolled out would keep me at Platinum after the expire date. Just another system issue. That said, I'll be testing the 50% discount for a 1/1/22 reservation on 11/1/21. :) :) :). Trust but Verify.
 

Eric B

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I had 1,008,000 in Nov 2019 with an additional 149,000 in bonus points that were added in Nov 2019. My account has had the expire date since that last purchase, in Nov 2019. Owner Care assured me that my 1,008,000 developer ownership I had when the new tiers rolled out would keep me at Platinum after the expire date. Just another system issue. That said, I'll be testing the 50% discount for a 1/1/22 reservation on 11/1/21. :) :) :). Trust but Verify.
Does it work on a 2 month basis for the date or on a 60-day basis? I’m VIPG, so know it’s a 45-day window for me, but who knows how they implemented it for the other deadlines. If it’s 60 days, you’d have to wait for 11/2/2021, wouldn’t you?
 

paxsarah

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Does it work on a 2 month basis for the date or on a 60-day basis? I’m VIPG, so know it’s a 45-day window for me, but who knows how they implemented it for the other deadlines. If it’s 60 days, you’d have to wait for 11/2/2021, wouldn’t you?
Everything that was a multiple of 30 is in actual months now.
 
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