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Wyndham VIP PIC Strategy

gatechgrad

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Hi Everyone,
We visited a Wyndham presentation a few years ago and did not purchase anything. I did investigate the program further and found this board. We have booked many vacations through a contact that I made on here and we really like the properties. We visited another presentation again yesterday so of course I started the information search again, and came across the PIC program. From what I have read my startegy should be roughly as follows: resale purchase 2 weeks of a 3+ bedroom property in the RCI program that has low maintenance fees. Attend another presentation, or call my rep, and purchase developer points of around 100k, and enroll the 2 weeks into the pic program. That would give me silver VIP for around 15k, with a total of 608k points. While silver might not be great as far as VIP, it would help reduce my total MFs because of the PIC. Please poke any and all holes in my strategy.

If I purchase 600k resale points on eBay, cost all in is probably 1k, so negligible. Maintenance fees at $7/k would ruin me $4200/yr.

Using strategy above I would have 508k points from the pic, with target of $800/pic MF’s, $90/pic for processing heart. then at $7/1000, around $700 in Wyndham MF’s for a total of around $2500 in combined fees for the year.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

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Hi Everyone,
We visited a Wyndham presentation a few years ago and did not purchase anything. I did investigate the program further and found this board. We have booked many vacations through a contact that I made on here and we really like the properties. We visited another presentation again yesterday so of course I started the information search again, and came across the PIC program. From what I have read my startegy should be roughly as follows: resale purchase 2 weeks of a 3+ bedroom property in the RCI program that has low maintenance fees. Attend another presentation, or call my rep, and purchase developer points of around 100k, and enroll the 2 weeks into the pic program. That would give me silver VIP for around 15k, with a total of 608k points. While silver might not be great as far as VIP, it would help reduce my total MFs because of the PIC. Please poke any and all holes in my strategy.

If I purchase 600k resale points on eBay, cost all in is probably 1k, so negligible. Maintenance fees at $7/k would ruin me $4200/yr.

Using strategy above I would have 508k points from the pic, with target of $800/pic MF’s, $90/pic for processing heart. then at $7/1000, around $700 in Wyndham MF’s for a total of around $2500 in combined fees for the year.
If the reason you are trying to get to VIP is to have cheaper maintenance fees, why not just buy some resale properties with low maintenance fees? That seems more sensible than laying out $15k to get PIC
 

gatechgrad

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If the reason you are trying to get to VIP is to have cheaper maintenance fees, why not just buy some resale properties with low maintenance fees? That seems more sensible than laying out $15k to get PIC
If the reason you are trying to get to VIP is to have cheaper maintenance fees, why not just buy some resale properties with low maintenance fees? That seems more sensible than laying out $15k to get PIC
At first it would be cheaper, totally agree. But if I can reduce the yearly MF from 4800 to 2700, then there is a calculated payback period where it becomes cheaper in the long run. Looks to be about 7 years. We have been booking over 4 years so far.
 

cbyrne1174

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100% resale!!
I compare the costs to what I currently own resale, which is less than $7/thousand because I grabbed Grand Desert and TOTG deeds. My costs are $6.04 per thousand and 2 Massanutten PICs will bring my costs to $4.78 per thousand because I would have to buy 105,000 CWA points on top of the PICs. That would bring my ownership to 613,000 points, which is $2930.14 per year. My costs now is equal to $3702.52 on 613,000 points, so I'd save $772 a year. If 105,000 points costs $17k cash, it would take 22 years to break even on MF alone.

The added value is getting 25% off 60 days out, upgrades 30 days out, 2 extra HK, access to Worldmark 9 months out, 3 extra guest certs, 2 Reciprical ARP, an extra month to book Margaritaville.

Even then, the decision is still even more dynamic. A lot of the VIP discounts and upgrades that are useful to me are in overbuilt locations that I can get in Interval International for cheap anyways. I would use the extra HKs and Reciprical ARP every year, but that still makes my break even point like 15 years.
 

gatechgrad

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I compare the costs to what I currently own resale, which is less than $7/thousand because I grabbed Grand Desert and TOTG deeds. My costs are $6.04 per thousand and 2 Massanutten PICs will bring my costs to $4.78 per thousand because I would have to buy 105,000 CWA points on top of the PICs. That would bring my ownership to 613,000 points, which is $2930.14 per year. My costs now is equal to $3702.52 on 613,000 points, so I'd save $772 a year. If 105,000 points costs $17k cash, it would take 22 years to break even on MF alone.

The added value is getting 25% off 60 days out, upgrades 30 days out, 2 extra HK, access to Worldmark 9 months out, 3 extra guest certs, 2 Reciprical ARP, an extra month to book Margaritaville.

Even then, the decision is still even more dynamic. A lot of the VIP discounts and upgrades that are useful to me are in overbuilt locations that I can get in Interval International for cheap anyways. I would use the extra HKs and Reciprical ARP every year, but that still makes my break even point like 15 years.
Thank you for another perspective. My ultimate goal is to drive my cost down as low as possible. Using the $7/k drops the payback, but seems like getting into cheaper MF properties like Grand Desert may be the better option. We have a pretty good connection right now, but you never know when that will dry up.
 

bnoble

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In general, I am not a huge fan of "pay a lot now in hopes of saving money later." That $7-$8K is gone, and even if you amortized it over 30 years at 3% it adds about $385 per year. I'd be more inclined to buy a resale with a good fee ratio.
 

Richelle

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First things first. Can you use that many points or are you going to have to rent out your points? If you're going to have to rent out your points, I say pass on going silver. There are a million reasons to avoid renting. Especially to strangers. The occasional renting to family and friends, no big deal. Doing it on the regular is annoying and a hassle. Renting to strangers is a risk.

Second, can you afford to pay cash for that 98k points (49,000 per PIC week)? If not, don't do it. The amount of interest you will pay will eat away at any maintenance fee savings you get and will take years for those savings to make up for it, if ever.

What other benefits besides discounts and upgrades are valuable to you? Discounts and upgrades can be few and far between if you travel during prime season, depending on what you book. People who book studios or one bedrooms have a higher chance of getting upgraded to the next size up. Same with discounts. So, pretend you rarely get those. Is VIP still worth it to you? It's ok if the answer is yes. It's your moolah. The only opinion that matters if yours.

For me, I look at the long term. I went platinum. Right now we travel a lot during prime season and occasionally during low and high seasons. So, we need a lot of points for the big family vacations (I have a few resale contracts too). Upgrades and discounts are not the norm. They are a bonus. When my husband and I retire, we will be able to travel in the off season more and utilize those discounts and upgrades. I already have our road trip planned out and can get 25 weeks of traveling with our 50% discount and still have some points left over. Since it's just us, we can book a studio or one bedroom. Those are more plentiful than the larger rooms, and more likely to be available in the 60-day window. Prices on points tend to go up over the years, so buying now saves me some money.

Now, if we were not able to pay cash, I wouldn't have done it. 10 years of over $1,000 a month for Maintenace fees and loan payments for my purchase just didn't appeal to me. Paying over $30k in interest didn't appeal to me either. So always pay cash. If you do not have it now, save some money. Once you get a few thousand, put it in a CD. Let that ride and save a few thousand more. When the first CD matures, roll it into a new one along with additional money you saved. You will eventually get to your goal. You could also take some side gigs to save up money if it's really important to you.

Another thing to consider. The PIC program can be changed at any time. Changes can range from minor to major. I do not see them doing away with PIC anytime soon, but it's not out of the question. Given Wyndham's history, if they decide to kill the program, they likely would grandfather in existing owners, and stop taking new enrollments. PIC contracts are non-transferable, even to family members. Eventually, as ownerships are turned back in or transferred, the PIC contracts will slowly drop off. If they wanted to be more aggressive about retiring the program, they could allow us to retain our status, but make the points symbolic. They wouldn't be available to make bookings. Just like PIC express but permanent. I could be wrong on all this. They could nix the program entirely and say tough luck to the owners, and we lose our VIP status. Who knows with them. This is not meant to scare you off. I just want you going into this, eye wide open. I do not want you to be blindsided if the worst happened.

If you do this, just remember that the RCI affiliated PIC week (cannot be RCI points), has to be in your name. The entire transfer process has to be completed before you can enroll it into PIC. In the past you could get away with not having to prove you own it, but nowadays they check. If the resort doesn't confirm it's in your name, the enrollment will be rejected. Depending on the resort or closing company, it could take months for the PICs to transfer to you. Look into Timeshare nation. They specialize in free timeshares. Some of those can have high fees which is why they are free, but not all of them.

Another bonus tip. Sedona does piggybacks (they call them deed backs). I got a 126k point Flagstaff contract for $4k (normally $22k), and it counts towards VIP. I did my purchase over the phone and email. It reduced my cost considerably when I went to Platinum back in December. The drawback is those are usually high maintenance fee resorts. I want to say it's $8 per 1,000. So make sure you factor that into your calculations if you go that route. Also, it requires a purchase. When you purchase normal points, they tend to be a bit more expensive since you're getting a huge discount on the deed backs. I got deeded Atlanta. I think it was $200 per 1,000. I know for a fact that other resorts were selling it for $175 per 1,000. CWA points I believe were $175 per 1,000. My overall cost was $128 per 1,000 points. If I got CWA points, my overall cost would have been about $110 per 1,000. If you do the deed back, ask for the 182k point contracts. The maintenance fees are more reasonable on those. I accepted the higher maintenance fee ones because I do not plan on keeping them for more than 3 or 4 years. I will eventually trade them in for a lower maintenance fee resort.

I haven't decided if I am going to go Founders, Presidental reserve, or just make a small purchase but I have to make at least one more purchase to trade everything in (deed backs and all) Again, looking at long term. We may not make the money back, but a 5% increase on $8 per 1,000 is more than a 5% increase on $4.50 per 1,000. So, it's a psychological thing. Since it's my money, it's my choice. :)

Anyway, you're going to do what you're going to do, so I hope this helped you make the choice that is good for you.
 
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It's not a terrible idea it just depends on what's more important to you. Buying resale is a great option at low maintenance properties may be the way to go if you do not care about the VIP benefits. We started with a resale contract that somone on this platform gifted us and now that we understand the program we want the VIP benefits and plan to use two 3 bedroom PICS to make it to Platinum. The use of Worldmark resorts through Club Pass is also something you do not get access to as a resale owner so if that is important to you then developer points are the way to go. I would recommend calling Wyndham telesales for the cheapest price per point if you decide to go the PIC route. The pricing and intrest rates are typically better and it's a lot less hassle than a physical sales presentation.
 

bnoble

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We started with a resale contract that somone on this platform gifted us and now that we understand the program we want the VIP benefits and plan to use two 3 bedroom PICS to make it to Platinum.
Have you made any developer purchases along the way? If not you’ll need to buy close to 600K to make platinum with two 3BR PICs. Even from telesales, that’s going to be a lot of money to make back on discounts and upgrades.
 

lotus921v

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It's not a terrible idea it just depends on what's more important to you. Buying resale is a great option at low maintenance properties may be the way to go if you do not care about the VIP benefits. We started with a resale contract that somone on this platform gifted us and now that we understand the program we want the VIP benefits and plan to use two 3 bedroom PICS to make it to Platinum. The use of Worldmark resorts through Club Pass is also something you do not get access to as a resale owner so if that is important to you then developer points are the way to go. I would recommend calling Wyndham telesales for the cheapest price per point if you decide to go the PIC route. The pricing and intrest rates are typically better and it's a lot less hassle than a physical sales presentation.
Or they could just buy a small worldmark contract and access it that way for prob $1500
 
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Have you made any developer purchases along the way? If not you’ll need to buy close to 600K to make platinum with two 3BR PICs. Even from telesales, that’s going to be a lot of money to make back on discounts and upgrades.
We have another 300k points to buy. I'm going to buy those after we get the PICs. We have 554k points right now but 254K are resale. We book everything last minute so the 50% discount is worth it for us, especially because we still rent points from other owners because we run out or borrow every year.
 

lotus921v

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We have another 300k points to buy. I'm going to buy those after we get the PICs. We have 554k points right now but 254K are resale. We book everything last minute so the 50% discount is worth it for us, especially because we still rent points from other owners because we run out or borrow every year.
It’s about $293/1000 points to buy developer right now. Have you calculated how long it will take you to break even with the 50% discount? You’re talking 90k without counting the purchase to enroll your PICs
 
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It’s about $293/1000 points to buy developer right now. Have you calculated how long it will take you to break even with the 50% discount? You’re talking 90k without counting the purchase to enroll your PICs
We've already thought about all of that. Keep in mind $293/1000 is full retail and even at the sales center they give a developer discount. We've already checked on the pricing for it and as of a few weeks ago it was $66K. We're in our early 30s so we have a lot of vacation years left and we can afford it.
 

Jan M.

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Contact telesales. You'll get a much better price through them than you will through a sales center. It will be CWA points but you'll only need to buy enough to enroll the PIC weeks so getting something will low maintenance fees isn't a big deal. The minimum for two PIC weeks is 98,000 points. However there are discounts and rebates starting at 100,000-105,000 points that make it cheaper. You should be able to get in around $15,500 ish.

Just make very sure you have the PIC weeks in your name before you make the purchase and that you're getting PIC Plus not PIC Express. They do call RCI to verify the weeks for PIC Plus so that's why the weeks must be in your name at that time. Under contract won't qualify so if anyone is telling you that will work it's because they're putting it through as PIC Express. You definitely don't want that!
 

bnoble

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We've already checked on the pricing for it and as of a few weeks ago it was $66K. We're in our early 30s so we have a lot of vacation years left and we can afford it.
It's your money, and you can definitely spend it however you like. However, here's one other thing to possibly think about. That $66K is gone the instant the ink on the contract is dry. If you instead put that $66K in a low-fee index fund, you could spend about 4% of the balance each year and, in the long run, expect the principal to keep pace with inflation. That's about $2600/year in present-value dollars that you could use to offset your maintenance fee costs on resale points--plus you will have the (inflation-adjusted) $66K at the end, rather than nothing.

The other consideration: Do you want 1.1M points, the Platinum VIP perks, or both? We have timeshare assets that are collectively equivalent to about that 1.1M point level. We are in our 50s, have very flexible careers that allow us to travel more or less at whim, and still have to work pretty hard to use all of those assets--and we don't get Platinum-level discounts. If we did, using all those assets would be even harder.

Finally, I would NOT go into any purchase like this with the plan to rent out points on a regular basis. Wyndham has made it clear that they will make life difficult for such owners. How difficult it will be will ebb and flow, but it will never be carefree.
 

Richelle

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It’s about $293/1000 points to buy developer right now. Have you calculated how long it will take you to break even with the 50% discount? You’re talking 90k without counting the purchase to enroll your PICs
That is above full retail. I want to say retail is $270 per 1,000. Although the salespeople certainly try for higher. I got Atlanta for $200 per 1,000. The only reason I paid that much is because I got a piggyback contract that lowered my overall cost to $128 per 1,000. Otherwise, I had a line on $175 per 1,000 for Atlanta. National harbor they were trying to sell for $192 per 1,000. I plan on trading in the piggyback in 3 to 4 years, so I am not concerned about the Maintenace fees being higher than CWA.
 
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